I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: GuyIncognito on October 11, 2007, 10:42:41 AM

Title: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: GuyIncognito on October 11, 2007, 10:42:41 AM
Over the past couple weeks I have been giving allot of thought to the whole Presumed consent debate and I was hoping we might generate some chatter on the subject, get a bit of a gauge on where everyone stands on the issue.

To make this easy why don't we make it a multiple choice question... Which system do you personally agree with and the reason behind it?

1) Presumed Consent- everyone would automatically be an organ donor when they die unless they had specifically opted out.
2) Proposed law requiring people to declare their wishes when they renew their driver's licence.
3) Removal of Family Consent - The family still retains the right to make a final decision on allowing the organs to be donated whether the deceased had registered or not.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: glitter on October 11, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
I choose number 1.

I think more people are willing to donate then do because of laziness. If you are not directly in the line of need, maybe you just don't think about it, and of course you want to help other people after you die. Who wouldn't? and for the people who don't want to- they still have a choice. I would bet not that many people would choose to opt out though.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: ODAT on October 11, 2007, 11:24:24 AM
#2 because so many people have different religious beliefs that would get in the way. At least this way, you would have to say yes or no and not just leave it hanging. But, there should be a way for ONLY the person (not family member) to override this if along the way since they answered this question they say met a great group of people like those here and they changed their mind!

My nephew was 8 yo when he was killed. My brother and his wife had his organs donated because they said he was such a giving person he would have wanted to.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Joe Paul on October 11, 2007, 12:05:30 PM
#1. If a person KNOWS their organs will be donated if they DO NOT opt out for any reason, then so be it. And I too think that person should have the only say in what is done with their organs.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Ang on October 11, 2007, 04:24:52 PM
i'm  gonna  be  greedy  and  take  both  numbers  1  and  2.
number 1  alleviates  this  laziness  thing,  you  are  pressured  in to  opting  out,  for  your own  personal  beliefs :thumbup;
number  2  alleviates  the  laziness  thing  from  the  oppposite  side,renew  your  licence,say  yes  or  no,the  other  option  is  you  don't  get a  new  licence,sounds  pretty  simple  to  me :2thumbsup;

Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: BigSky on October 11, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
More towards #1.

It doesnt seem people are against organ donation, its just taking time out of their day to get it done.  With busy schedules that seems the last thing on their mind to get done. 
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: charee on October 11, 2007, 05:07:53 PM
I go for number 1, We need that law passed here desperately, if your to lazy to op out if its not your wishes tough luck :ausflag;
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: kitkatz on October 11, 2007, 05:12:48 PM
I lean towards number one.  I think people should donate their organs.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: George Jung on October 11, 2007, 05:55:31 PM
#1  People with the religious beliefs or would rather not donate will find the time to opt out.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: angela515 on October 11, 2007, 06:00:32 PM
#1
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Rerun on October 11, 2007, 06:07:56 PM
Let's do a poll next time. 

Anyway I am an avid Presumed consent advocate.  Just "get'er done".
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: boxman55 on October 11, 2007, 06:31:25 PM
#1...Boxman
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: waitlisted on October 11, 2007, 06:43:18 PM
#1
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: ODAT on October 12, 2007, 05:10:26 AM
#1  People with the religious beliefs or would rather not donate will find the time to opt out.

I agree with that!
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: GuyIncognito on October 12, 2007, 06:01:54 AM
As a person who would directly benefit from Presumed consent I'd choose #1 - anyone who is in our situation or knows someone waiting on a transplant would tell you it all comes down to saving lives.

  I could go on and on here listings reasons for P.C., however I think we can all agree on most of these points... Most major religions support organ donation, Families decline organ donation due to of a lack of knowledge and or grief & most people do not sign there donor card out of laziness or ignorance in regards to the donation process. So in addition to presumed consent a information campaign must be launched so individuals and families can make informed decision when it comes to organ donation.

 As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card, we believe that we only have one life and that we should make the best of it; living happy and fulfilled lives and helping others to do so. But clearly this doesn’t need to stop when we do. Organ and Tissue donation are an important example of how scientific developments can directly improve and even save thousands of people’s lives every year.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Red from Canada on October 12, 2007, 07:44:35 AM
The problem also is the doctors and OR room to do organ recovery.  Here in Canada, a lot of organs go to waste for lack of staff to ask and staff to do the retrieval.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: BigSky on October 12, 2007, 08:18:25 AM
As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: MooseMom on October 12, 2007, 08:57:27 AM
Number one.  They do it this way in other countries...if they can do it, surely Americans can, too.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Joe Paul on October 12, 2007, 09:45:56 AM
As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?
Long time ago for me.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: stauffenberg on October 12, 2007, 12:36:08 PM
Not only do I support presumed consent with an opt-out provision for people who choose to place their rationally indefensible superstitions ahead of other people's right to live, but I would also cancel the present legal capacity of the relatives of the deceased to override the wish of the deceased to donate. 

This legal entitlement dates from the days when grave-robbing was the only way to maintain the supply of corpses for anatomical instruction in medical schools.  The problem was that grave-robbers could not be prosecuted, since by law corpses were 'res nullius,' things belonging to no one, so there could be no criminal violation of anyone's rights by stealing them, just as today you can steal someone's rubbish they put out on the street for collection and not be prosecutable for theft.  To get around these difficulties, English law decided to invent the legal fiction that the corpse belonged to the next of kin, so that taking the corpse could be deemed the crime of theft committed against the relatives, and this is the reason why, two hundred years later, some dialysis patients have to die because posthumous organ donations are cancelled by the donor's relatives.  There are many idiotic reasons for killing people, but this has got to be one of the stupidest.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: angela515 on October 12, 2007, 01:21:40 PM
As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?

I am not allowed to donate anything...
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: paddbear0000 on October 12, 2007, 01:27:43 PM
I definitely vote for #1.

As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?

I am not allowed to donate anything...

I'm not either.  :(
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: BigSky on October 12, 2007, 04:02:22 PM
As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?
Long time ago for me.

Mine is signed also.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Chris on October 12, 2007, 05:21:48 PM
This post makes me wonder what my states stance/law is now. I remember reading that some states have passed new laws regarding organ donation, but I haven't seen it in the paper.
Since I already had my transplant, I am not allowed to donate or give blood. I vote for #1, but do not want my naked ass on some schools biology table either or for use with scientific study. I think there should be some sort of choice for organ donation, one for transplantation and the other for scientific study.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: donnia on October 12, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Why can't yall donate?

If you are post transplant can you not donate?

I signed my donor card a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time ago!    I have made it perfectly clear that I want anything and everything donated...  I  wouldn't even mind my naked ass on some schools biology table (LOL  I loved that line Chris).  I would be proud if I was used for scientific study.  Anything and everything.... that is what my family must remember!

Oh... BTW... I pick #1  :)
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: angela515 on October 12, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
My transplant has nothing to do with not being able to donate. I can't donate b/c of my SLE(Lupus).
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Chris on October 12, 2007, 08:09:41 PM
I was told I can not donate due to having a transplant and being on all the immunosupresants. I was told this by my transplant center and by the Gift of Hope during an Organ Donor Awareness booth.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: stauffenberg on October 13, 2007, 09:24:35 AM
One perfectly fair and reasonable way to end the organ shortage forever would be to give everyone at age 18, the age of consent, two years to make an irrevocable will to donate all their organs for transplant, unless they could demonstrate bona fide membership in a religious group forbidding this.  Then, after age 20, no one could ever be put on a waiting list for any organ transplant unless they had signed the consent to donate their own organs.  Why should people be entitled to benefit from a program they are not also willing to contribute to?  Faced with this prospect, it would be in everyone's self-interest to donate, and people are, unfortunately, much more motivated by selfishness than by altruism, so there would suddenly be more organs available for transplant than would ever be needed.  Before age 20 the transplant allocation system would work as it does now.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: BigSky on October 13, 2007, 03:03:22 PM
I was told I can not donate due to having a transplant and being on all the immunosupresants. I was told this by my transplant center and by the Gift of Hope during an Organ Donor Awareness booth.

They may have been talking about donating blood.

I have always been told most anyone can donate with few exceptions, HIV etc etc.  Even when I had my transplant I was told I could donate, the exceptions were plasma and blood due to the medication to suppress the immune system.  At time of death, as in all cases, they will determine if organs or suitable for donation or not.

Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: Chris on October 13, 2007, 03:30:40 PM
I was told I can not donate due to having a transplant and being on all the immunosupresants. I was told this by my transplant center and by the Gift of Hope during an Organ Donor Awareness booth.

They may have been talking about donating blood.

I have always been told most anyone can donate with few exceptions, HIV etc etc.  Even when I had my transplant I was told I could donate, the exceptions were plasma and blood due to the medication to suppress the immune system.  At time of death, as in all cases, they will determine if organs or suitable for donation or not.



Nope, asked specifically about donating when I first got my transplant at my center. However their book says I can donate blood, but American Red Cross and a local blood bank said I can not donate. When I asked at the booth for the Gift of Hope, I was told I also could not donate my organs. So at this point I have no idea what the policy is, I'm just going by what I was told by what I would consider reliable sources. Somebody needs to get their act together out here if the rules have changed.
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: thegrammalady on October 14, 2007, 09:18:23 AM
As a humanist I know it is my duty to sign my donor card,

Which kinda brings up....

While the attention is about others signing their donor cards,  how many here have signed their donor card?

mine was signed years before my kidneys failed and my family knows better than to deny the donation. however since they are all wiling to donate a kidney to me that really isn't a concern.  i don't think families should be allowed to deny a persons choice to be an organ donor for any reason and everyone should be an organ donor unless they specifically opt out.  and as said before if they're just to lazy to opt out or forget to toughies!
Title: Re: Presumed consent debate.
Post by: stauffenberg on October 14, 2007, 12:56:25 PM
Given the damage to the entire body caused by major organ failure, extended periods of time on dialysis, and toxic immunosuppressive drugs, any organs harvested from a renal patient for transplant would have to count as second class, 'extended criteria' organs only.  There would also be a theoretically greater danger of subclinical infection and occult cancer in organs taken from a patient who had been receiving immunosuppression for any length of time.