I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Transplant Discussion => Topic started by: KR Cincy on October 08, 2007, 11:15:00 AM
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I've started looking into going overseas for a transplant...specifically, India. Has anyone done this? Which of the plethora of hospitals did you choose from? Did you go through a good agency to make arrangements?
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Sorry, I wouldn't be any help I had my transplant in the US. But, I have a question...what makes you want to go to India or oversees at all?
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Impatience, mostly. Other than my total lack of kidneys, I'm in very good health. But since I have to wait 5 years to be eligible for a transplant here in the US, I'm just exploring all my options.
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Here are some recent news articles that you may have seen:
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=4597.0 Organ Trading Is Not So Weird
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=4128.0 Transplant Tourism -- Caveat emptor! -- Let the buyer beware!
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=3460.0 The dark world of the kidney trade
and here's a thread that covers organ brokering http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1334.0 Transplant Surgery abroad is not the same in every country
Thankfully my daughter was able to get a transplant from a living donor in the US, but I can understand how you would not want to wait to find out if your cancer reappears. I don't really know what I would do if I were in your shoes.
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if i could afford it- i would try the phillipines, mostly because i lived there as a child, and am familiar with the people. My husband also may have to wait 5 years because of a cancer diagnosis, however we have been told to try more then one transplant center, as the protocol is different at each center. They still won't talk to us until he has two years post surgery with clean labs, but when that happens next april, we will shop every transplant center withen traveling distance.
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okarol- that last link seems to be for premium members-
also-epoman had a conversation with mitchorganbroker about transplant from overseas I thought this person might like to read- but I can't seem to find it....
I went back through Epomans posts with no-luck, was it removed?
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Hi glitter,
You're right, the last thread (re: mitchorganbroker) seems to have been archived in the Premium Member section.
It's been moved, no idea why it's not available, but after Sluff gets home I will ask him about it.
Thanks,
okarol/moderator
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Impatience, mostly. Other than my total lack of kidneys, I'm in very good health. But since I have to wait 5 years to be eligible for a transplant here in the US, I'm just exploring all my options.
Are you that desperate that you are willing to jeopardize your good health to get a kidney from a country you know nothing about and/or how they do their procedures? That is very risky my friend. Good Luck to you in all that you do :) :cuddle;
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From what I have read from you, you need to wait 5 yrs to prove your cancer free. That is for your own good and the good of any transplant you will/may get. Why would you put yourself in danger and possibly waste an organ if it's dont work out due to the other issues you have?
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Let me answer for my husband and I. Some transplant programs say 5 years automatically, some, look more at your pathology and make their determination based on what type of cancer you had, how big it got, wether it broke through out kidney walls, etc. what makes one place right and one place wrong? so there is some discretion, depending on where you get a transplant. I do realize his risk is higher because he had cancer more recently, I also know the risk to getting cancer after transplant is not something that gets talked about alot, but is increased for EVERYONE who gets a transplant three-fold.
One of the most important risk factors for post-transplant cancer is the intensity and duration of the immune system suppression. For example, heart transplant patients receive higher levels of immunosuppression than kidney transplant patients, so they are at higher risk. Other risks include certain viral infections (EBV) and in the case of kidney failure patients, how long they have been on dialysis.
so the longer your on dialysis the more your risk goes up.
I also have seen several people post that they can have transplants even though the disease that made them lose their renal function, is still in them, and could in fact affect their new kidney. FSGS comes to mind although I could be wrong, does that not have a risk of re-occurring in the donated kidney? No one thinks its a waste to give them a kidney however.
The longer he is on dialysis the more his risk of dialysis related complications- seems there are alot of risks for everyone, people live with cancer sometimes for a very long time- my father has had bladder cancer for 18 years, its still active, he still gets treatment,and he is not dying. My husband deserves a kidney as much as anyone else.
I think some of the objection comes from the distastefulness of purchasing a kidney. That is a moral judgement, that each of us have to work out for ourselves. You can think its very wrong, because that is nothing more then your opinion. I DO think it is very dangerous even so- you hear too many stories of AIDS and other issues. I also would only be in favor of a transaction between consenting adults.
just my :twocents;
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Your right glitter... I guess I may have misunderstood KR, I thought they had to wait 5 yrs to prove cancer free due to having it previously. If its just based on the transplant centers rules, then I would have to say I would try a different place if I could. However, if it's based on the fact cancer was previously found, i stick with that opinion. hehe.. :)
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Part of the reason for the 5 year wait is to make sure they don't put a healthy organ in a cancer-ridden body, and I get that. Part of the reason is also that the anti-rejection drugs will find any cancer cells that might be left in the body and stir those rascals up and get them reproducing. I get that too...and I'm not looking to leave tomorrow for India. But in a couple of years, if all my screenings are clear, I will ponder the possibilites. I will take my own donor with me to India (I have about 8 folks ready to get tested as a live donor) just to expedite this process.
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Your right glitter... I guess I may have misunderstood KR, I thought they had to wait 5 yrs to prove cancer free due to having it previously. If its just based on the transplant centers rules, then I would have to say I would try a different place if I could. However, if it's based on the fact cancer was previously found, i stick with that opinion. hehe.. :)
its based on both- not exclusively either one. my husband was surgically cured. and his labs are clean- in two year mark, we will find a center that will do it in two years, which our neph said is entirely possible.
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Buying an organ for transplant is now illegal in India. It is legal for Iranian citizens to buy a transplant in Iran, but not for foreigners. The major areas where you can now buy a kidney for transplant abroad are China, Pakistan, and the Philppines, and of the three, the Philippines is by far the safest and provides the highest quality kidneys. In China they tend to take the kidneys from prisoners who have just been executed, so the organ suffers from being a cadaver organ when you get it, which reduces its life expectancy. In Pakistan the hospitals and doctors are very low quality, but buying a kidney there is quite cheap if you are willing to take the risk, and it costs only about $25,000. There are also options for buying a transplant in some Caribbean countries, but there it is quite expensive, running about $200,000. I have also spoken to some people who have received transplants in Peru by purchasing a kidney from a live donor, though I don't know much about the details.
I know some people who have had a kidney transplant in the Philippines and have done extraordinarily well with it, having suffered absolutely no complications and having done better than most patients do in Western countries. In the Philippines cadaver kidneys are rarely transplanted, so buying a kidney from a living donor is considered the ordinary, legal way to get a transplant.
Usually foreign transplants are arranged through a facilitator who knows all the facilities available in the country where you are going and has contacts with the various transplant surgeons there, as well as extensive familiarity with the local medical system and its regulations. If you are interested in a transplant from the Philippines, which you can get in about a month from initial contact to leaving the hospital with a new organ, the whole process will cost about $80,000. On an earlier thread on this message board, the transplant facilitator Mitch Michaelson offered a Philippine transplant service and gave his contact email as liver4you@yahoo.com. He also has a website.
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When in Manila, go to Medical City.
You can always find a kidney from prisoners at Mantelupa --the State penitentiary.
Quod Severis Metes.
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You're such a dynamic, active, ambitious fellow, Zach, that I'm surprised you're content with dialysis rather than buying a transplant abroad so that your body can allow you to be all that you can be.
Glitter, a few comments I would make to your post are that, surprisingly, not all patients are at increased cancer risk following a transplant. For some reason diabetic patients so no increased risk of cancer, perhaps because their sub-optimal metabolism does not permit adequate nourishment getting to the fast-growing cancer cells. Some cancers, called insulinomas, even provide their own insulin supply to support their characteristic rapid growth, but in a body without any insulin of its own, or with insulin resistance, the energy supply for tumor growth is restricted.
Also, even with all the risks of transplant, the statistics show that patients with a transplant have twice the life expectancy of those who continue on dialysis, while diabetics with a transplant live three times as long with a transplant as on dialysis. When you add the greater life expectancy, the reduced morbidity, and the freer, more energetic lifestyle, transplant decisively beats dialysis as a mode of treatment for endstage renal failure.
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I've started looking into going overseas for a transplant...specifically, India. Has anyone done this? Which of the plethora of hospitals did you choose from? Did you go through a good agency to make arrangements?
This is second hand information, but it's from a reliable source - one of my doctors. He had a friend (a fellow physician) who is from India originally. He was on dialysis and through other colleagues decided to explore the option of getting a transplant in his native country. Arrangements were made and he and his wife made the trip. He met the donor and realized that this person was in poor health, had not had proper screening and was basically pretty desperate. He decided to not take the risk and simply had a nice vacation and then returned home to wait. Even basic blood work for infections had not yet been done!
I know the wait is hard, but I'm not sure I would travel that far for something not necessarily reliable.
Cora
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well if you have plenty of money it might be an option, but if it was all the money you had, and it didn't pan out- that would be pretty devastating. 100,000 grand is not alot to some people- 20.00 is alot to me!! but if I had skads of loose money I would try anything- then if it wasn't a good idea, I would make the judgement at that time....
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I've started looking into going overseas for a transplant...specifically, India. Has anyone done this? Which of the plethora of hospitals did you choose from? Did you go through a good agency to make arrangements?
I looked into this as well but only in a very general way. I was very wary of all of the questions that anyone would have about donors, their treatment, physician and facility qualifications, overall outcomes etc. I could just imagine myself dying on a table there or lying in a hospital bed with a gaping infection, the thoughts weren't pleasant.
That said, if you want to know more I found that I could get good information about this from Indian nephrologists working here. Many of them have connections with transplant facilities and physicians back home and can give some advice about the subject.
I was enlightened to the degree that my curiousity was satisfied but never seriously considered the option.
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well if you have plenty of money it might be an option, but if it was all the money you had, and it didn't pan out- that would be pretty devastating. 100,000 grand is not alot to some people- 20.00 is alot to me!! but if I had skads of loose money I would try anything- then if it wasn't a good idea, I would make the judgement at that time....
On the topic of prices it seems that there are two prices for renal transplants in some countries. There is the one the locals pay and the one Americans will pay. How do I know this? I've seen prices quoted on the net for kidney transplants in the Philippines and they aren't economical. I was discussing the matter with a recovery room nurse one day after some minor surgery who mentioned that her sister had purchased a kidney and surgery in the Phillipines. The sister was a native of the country. The figure she mentioned was ridiculously low, as I recall around $5000 to $6000 total. If they think you have it they will try to get it.
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Your right glitter... I guess I may have misunderstood KR, I thought they had to wait 5 yrs to prove cancer free due to having it previously. If its just based on the transplant centers rules, then I would have to say I would try a different place if I could. However, if it's based on the fact cancer was previously found, i stick with that opinion. hehe.. :)
its a 5 year wait in UK.
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To get on the list is a 5 yr wait, no matter what? I would so be moved from that country within days.
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Just don't move to Canada, where the wait is 8 years!
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Hi glitter,
You're right, the last thread (re: mitchorganbroker) seems to have been archived in the Premium Member section.
It's been moved, no idea why it's not available, but after Sluff gets home I will ask him about it.
Thanks,
okarol/moderator
It was an agreement between Epoman and mitchorganbroker. Epoman didn't much care for this kind of thing, but he gave him a specific time to have a thread on IHD and then it was locked and archived.
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Just don't move to Canada, where the wait is 8 years!
It varies a tremendous amount from province to province. In Ontario, the average wait for an A type I think is now about 3 - 5 years. Unfortunately, the wait for a B kidney can be up to 12.
Cora
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Unfortunately, the waiting time for cadaver kidneys keeps increasing everywhere in the world, because the number of people on dialysis is increasing exponentially, while the absolute number of kidneys from cadavers has remained stagnant since the mid 1990s. Some of the difference was taken up by an increase in live donors over this same time period, but nowhere near enough to keep the waiting lists from growing longer.