I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Off-Topic: Talk about anything you want. => Topic started by: Peter on July 01, 2007, 04:22:04 PM
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I went to see Michael Moore's new film "Sicko" today, and I gotta say, it was very eye-opening.
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Was it accurate? His others have been deceptive, dishonest, and biased.
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It does seem to be fairly accurate. As a dialysis patient, I'd hate to be forced to have to pay for it. (Though I'm from Canada, so I don't have HMO/insurance issues.)
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Was it accurate? His others have been deceptive, dishonest, and biased.
Black? I havent seen any of his movies but i have heard just the opposite of them (t.v. interviews and such) Would they let him actually make a movie (a documentary at that) if it was dishonest. I am just really curious about the views on him, i've heard more good than bad. :popcorn;
*just a reminder, there is to be absolutely no talk of dialysis whatsoever in this thread* thank you
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goofy, it's gonna be hard to talk about the movie without discussing dialysis - it's all about health care, especially those who have insurance and still can't afford the treatment they need.
Black, I haven't seen the movie, but what I've read shows that he's gotten real patients with real problems in it. Using true stories doesn't necessarily mean he's not biased, though. He wouldn't be Moore if he didn't pile on the rhetoric.
Goofy, if you have someone who will pay for the production costs, anyone can make a documentary from any viewpoint, and cherry pick the facts they want to talk about. "Documentary" just means that they are using things filmed live, not from a script. It doesn't offer any guarantees that they are filming reliable people or not editing it to suit their views.
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i've seen all of moore's films and i feel that he makes valid points that need to be heard.
'bowling for columbine' was a masterpiece, as far as i'm concerned.
the few previews and interviews i've seen about 'sicko' show that he's on the ball, but he does tend to make slight errors in his haste to condemn the american system. canada does have some problems that he didn't mention. i waited in emergency for 8 hours when i was rushed to the hospital with infected legs (from fluid buildup and vasculitis)- and unlike the point he made in ...columbine, that canadians don't have to lock their doors at night, most canadians DO lock their doors at night. there aren't as many people with guns, but there are enough crazies to go around, believe me!
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I would agree with Black.
I have seen a number of moores movies and that description about them is dead on.
Bowling for columbine was a POS full of lies from the beginning. Fahrenheit 9/11 was full of all kinds of bs and lies also.
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yeah, right, nobody was killed at columbine or any other school in the ststes, ever, what a bunch of liars, hey?
:rofl;
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yeah, right, nobody was killed at columbine or any other school in the ststes, ever, what a bunch of liars, hey?
:rofl;
And Kmart didn't stop selling ammunition.
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yeah, right, nobody was killed at columbine or any other school in the ststes, ever, what a bunch of liars, hey?
:rofl;
If you think the movie was just about columbine you never paid much attention during your screening of it. :banghead;
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i've seen the movie more than once. columbine was the focus for a wide-reaching, mostly ignored problem. who else is talking about it? moore is great, and no amount of blind bigotry can change that.
;)
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i've seen the movie more than once. columbine was the focus for a wide-reaching, mostly ignored problem. who else is talking about it? moore is great, and no amount of blind bigotry can change that.
;)
:rofl;
Evidently you bought into moores lies a little to easily.
But hey, since you are from Canada. Explain to us just how "truthful" that scene was about moore just going up to the counter in a Canadian Walmart and being able to buy ammo with no identification, even more so to his claim that he could buy as much of it as he wanted in the same manner.
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Sorry I wouldn't give :twocents; to see anything from Moore.
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the words biased and unethical come to mind when you mention M.Moore. He insults my intelligence, I still cannot beleive that people buy his brand of censored rhetoric. Propaganda is designed to make you think a certain way- instead of thinking for yourself.
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its not suprising that so many americans would be offended by moore's efforts to bring awareness to certain, uncomfortable issues.
when you live a lie, truth seems very strange, and hard to take.
;)
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its not suprising that so many americans would be offended by moore's efforts to bring awareness to certain, uncomfortable issues.
when you live a lie, truth seems very strange, and hard to take.
;)
Live a lie? Wow that's a pretty mean accusation.
Where's my pistol???
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We aren't "living a lie". Can we discuss without offending each others countries or believes?
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when you're offended by the truth, it's time to take stock.
HMO's are not what they should be.
a liar is in the whitehouse.
why be offended at somebody who has the guts to say it?
just besaue moore's work isd disliked by someone, does that mean that he is a 'POS' as someone said?
just because you don't like him, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with him.
and just because i like him, doesn't mean he's perfect, either.
it's all a matter of taste, and how sensitive someone is to criticism.
no country or nation is 'the best in the world' -
that is arrogant BS. every country says they are the best, and they can't all be right.
that does not mean that the country with the most bombs and the biggest army can
force the rest of the world to buy that crap.
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:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
Moore tell the truth???
His only objective was to bring money to his pocketbook and that was it.
Moore deliberately mislead viewers in how he did BFC and 9/11.
Just like his scene in Canada buying the ammo.
Since you didnt answer,
The truth is moore could not buy ammo like he claims he did in that scene, now can he. In fact for him to buy ammo in Canada he has to present identification.
Odd isnt it how moore even refused to submit to Canadian police to answer questions about his little "STAGED" scene.
Also you might note no one in this thread called moore a POS.
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There are lots of things that could be improved about the US healthcare system.
But that doesn't mean Michael Moore gives an accurate portrayal.
I won't waste my money to see Sicko, but I did enjoy reading this review http://www.nypost.com/seven/06192007/entertainment/movies/botched_operation_movies_kyle_smith.htm?page=0
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when you're offended by the truth, it's time to take stock
who says your opinion is the truth? I think you are biased against my country - you can twist things however you like.(Just like Moore)
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Well said, Gllitter!
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when you're offended by the truth, it's time to take stock
who says your opinion is the truth? I think you are biased against my country - you can twist things however you like.(Just like Moore)
aparrently, so can you. it's not just 'my' opinion.
ask the world.
;)
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If you are well off and have a fantastic health plan you may not feel that there is a very serious health care problem here in the USA that is a significant threat to our national security.
Mr. Moore's numbers may be off a little but the government's "official" numbers are way off and real
propaganda.
.....bd
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There are lots of things that could be improved about the US healthcare system.
But that doesn't mean Michael Moore gives an accurate portrayal.
I won't waste my money to see Sicko, but I did enjoy reading this review http://www.nypost.com/seven/06192007/entertainment/movies/botched_operation_movies_kyle_smith.htm?page=0
Thanks, Karol. As I suspected, it as objective and unbiased as his other lying crap, which he tried to pass off as a "documentaries".
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I agree that the US health care system needs a lot of improvement, but overall, in most cases, it's available for the consumers who make the effort to get care, and make an effort to pay what they can afford.
My husband and I have not been able to get any insurance coverage for more than 15 years due to pre-existing conditions. Yet, despite that, we have been able to get the medical care we have had to have. We've both gone way too long between dentist visits, annual physicals, and eye exams, but anything which required immediate attention we have gotten either free, or greatly discounted.
The surgeon for my gallbladder surgery cut his fee from $2,500 to $1,000 and is accepting $30 a month.
The radiologist who did all of my leg vein mapping (three times!), arteriogram, broken wrist, metatarsal inflammation scans, and all of Mike's fistula vein mapping wrote off my entire balance and half of Mike's!!
The hospital has not charged us anything for about 5 years and has done all of our bloodwork, which includes my frequent testing for thyroid levels and all of Mike's monthly pre-dialysis BUN and creatinine checks.
The podiatrist who diagnosed my foot problem and sent me for orthotics cut his fee from $125 to $65 because I asked him to, due to us not having any insurance.
The prosthetic place cut the price of the orthotics from $300 to $200, when I told them I had no insurance.
PPA and the drug companies got us most of our meds either free or very cheap.
The dialysis clinic where Mike is going, where we trained on the NxStage, has not charged us one cent and said they never will. They accept Medicare as full payment.
The Kidney Fund even helped us pay for the campground where we stayed during training and when we get the water hook-up for the PureFlow done, the Kidney Fund will help pay for that as well (We're still waiting for the plumber to work us in -- we agreed to wait at his convenience in exchange for a discounted rate.)
My GP lets me see the PA for my routine thyroid checks and my monthly B-12 shots, and an office visit is $30 instead of $80. When I see the GP twice a year it's around $120. I don't waste their time, and if I have a question, I keep in touch by e-mail so they can reply at their convenience.
It takes effort and lots of research to know what to ask for and who to see, but so far my big complaints have not been access to health care or the cost, but rather the blatant ignorance, stupidity, and incompetence by some of the so called "professionals".
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when you're offended by the truth, it's time to take stock
who says your opinion is the truth? I think you are biased against my country - you can twist things however you like.(Just like Moore)
VERY WELL SAID GLITTER!! :beer1;
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Light Lizard Speaks (from his website)
"If a man does not stand up for anything at all, he is barely alive.
If he stands for something, anything, he will have those who oppose what he stands for; 'Enemies.' This is inevitable.
If a man's 'enemies' are fools, braggarts and uncouth boors;
He is on The True Path."
The unanswered question in this homily is who gets to decide who are the fools, braggarts and uncouth boors. The answer is easy, just look in the mirror. So given a philosophy of dismissing an opposing point of view as coming from fools, how can one possibly be wrong about anything?
This seems just a tad arrogant to me. :sarcasm;
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There is not really an unanswered question here. No one decides who the fools are except they themselves. If a man stands for something such as peace and good will and "enemies" come forward and oppose him, it would be those individuals or groups that would be considered foolish, uncouth boors, and braggarts. It is not the man taking the stand that is deciding who the fools are but rather the actions of the opposition of his stance, that dictate their foolishness.
Michael Moor is very good at what he does. Yes, he puts a bunch of money in his pockets and he keeps alot of attention focused on himself, but he also is the reason for starting many, many threads such as this one and numerous debates about the various topics he discusses. Whether or not he is 100% accurate or free of bias is for the nay sayers to argue about. What is important to me is that he gets people involved. It is then up to those individuals to gather information and make their own decisions and take a position.
Would so many people be talking about healthcare systems right now if it were not for Sicko?
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Interesting thread - I'll get slammed because I happen to be somewhat a fan of Michael Moore. I think he brings topics to the public attention that need discussion. Many of his facts were absolutely correct - in every documentary that he has done. Does he make some glamor where there is none? Perhaps.
Americans have long become a nation of people living in fear every single day, living in oppressed conditions, feeling they don't really have a voice yet not really trying to have a voice. Is the Universal health care system the best there is? Maybe? Maybe not? But it may be better than what we have. And for the lady who waited eight hours to be seen in Canada - the same can be said for waiting in American emergency rooms. Guess that is universal to the continent.
I do believe that we are fighting a war that isn't our war. We are spending billions and billions of dollars overseas that could be spent in the United States. Kids are going hungry. College students have huge debts. Health care is sporadic or in some cases nonexistent =- depending on what part of the country you live in, etc. The list is long of national issues but they get no attention because of the war.
At any rate - whether Michael Moore's docs are biased or not - he does bring these discussions to the fore front - if even for a few months.
Sandyb
:)
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There is not much controversial about "standing" for peace and good will. The controversy usually begins with different opinions on how best to achieve these lofty goals.
The same thing can be said about a "stand" that everyone should have the best healthcare available. The controversy is how best to achieve this result. Michael Moore appears to have an opinion and stance that a government run health service is the best way. Others have different opinions. The best choice should not be decided by assuming dissenting opinions from one's own come from fools.
Being a recent transplant recipient I wonder about the wisdom of Medicare (a US government run program) deciding to cut off coverage for anti rejection medications three years after transplant when they are needed for life. The government I guess then assumes you are cured. Besides, if you can't afford them, you can always go back on government paid dialysis after your transplanted kidney rejects and fails. Is this good healthcare given the shortage of available kidneys for transplant? Government bureaucracies have a way of coming up with these kind of rules that seem to be shortsighted.
On the other hand, as a former dialysis patient, I was frustrated by my private insurance drug coverage on phosphorus binders. I started by taking Phos-Lo which is primarily calcium and, for me, it did not control my phosphorus levels well and caused my calcium levels to be too high. I switched to Fosrenol which did a great job on my phosphorus levels with no calcium problems. The problem was my insurance company's panel of doctors decided that the Phos-Lo was the preferred drug so I had to pay out of my pocket a much higher co-pay for the Fosrenol if I wanted to adequately control my phosphorus levels. This is an example of a private insurance company bureaucracy rule that didn't make since to me from a healthcare standpoint. It was strictly a cost based decision.
So I hope the ultimate decision in the US about how to achieve good healthcare for all will be based on a careful analysis of the options considering facts and actual experiences rather than propaganda designed to promote a single point of view.
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Americans have long become a nation of people living in fear every single day, living in oppressed conditions, feeling they don't really have a voice yet not really trying to have a voice.
Sandyb
:)
Thats not the America I live in. If things are so bad here why are we talking about building a wall on our border to help keep illegal immigrants out rather than to keep the "oppressed" nation of people in like they did in East Berlin.
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Interesting thread - I'll get slammed because I happen to be somewhat a fan of Michael Moore. Sandyb
:)
As he comes off the top rope and body slam...... :lol; all in good fun Sandyb.
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SHADES OF "SICKO"
Thousands of Chronically ill medically needy legal Floridians, many with
Medicare are being denied benefits, care and meds due to the new
Medicare program rolled out in 2006.
Essentially these patients are caught in a Medicare/Medicaid delemma
and as the situation grows worse, state and federal elected officials and
agencey administrators are passing the buck and doing little to rescue
citizens in serious trouble.
Aids patients, Kidney Dialysis patients, and those with severe breathing
problems (among others) can expect things to get evern worse!
.....bd
Florida may take hit on Medicare payments
Orlando Business Journal - 11:01 AM EDT Tuesday, July 10, 2007
Impending cuts to Medicare's home oxygen benefit will hit Florida harder than
any other state, according to an analysis by _Avalere Health LLC._
(http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/gen/Avalere_Health_LLC_1FCAB5D3F5D241DC98E8B0CE69B25
19D.html)
The analysis found about 19,700 Florida residents would be affected by the
change. Texas is the next hardest-hit state, with 17,400 residents affected,
the study found.
The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 and the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003
are responsible for the pending reductions in the reimbursement rate for the
home oxygen benefit, according to a release from the Council for Quality
Respiratory Care, a Washington, D.C.-based group of the nation's leading home
oxygen therapy providers and manufacturers.
The cuts would total $710 million in 2009 and $855 million in 2010, and the
reductions in funding amount to an 18.8 percent reduction in the reimbursement
rate, the release said.
The Medicare Modernization Act requires Medicare to put in place competitive
bidding for some types of durable medical equipment, including oxygen
equipment. The Deficit Reduction Act imposes a 36-month cap on the monthly payments
Medicare makes to home oxygen providers for equipment rental services. About
one in five Medicare beneficiaries use home oxygen for more than 36 months
and it's not clear how those beneficiaries' services will be funded after the
cap period, the release said.
The changes will affect a significant portion of the more than one million
Medicare beneficiaries with chronic lung disease who rely on home oxygen for
health and independence, the release said. Patients who use home oxygen therapy
are less likely to go to the hospital.
Home oxygen therapy currently costs the Medicare program $7.62 a day, versus
as much as $4,600 a day in the hospital, the release said. After full
implementation of the competitive bidding process and the 36-month cap, daily
reimbursement for home oxygen therapy is expected to fall to between $4.50 and
$5.50, the release said.
Avalere's data analysis is on the company's Web site at
_www.avalerehealth.net/wmdocs/3309_AH_Longterm_V8.pdf_
(http://www.avalerehealth.net/wmdocs/3309_AH_Longterm_V8.pdf) .
:usaflag;
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I would not see his movie.
I don't want to put any of my money in his pockets.
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I saw the movie and I think it was pretty good. Yes, it is exaggerating issues and showing issues bit too black and white, but that is same for many documentaries having political agenda.
However I don't think anyone can say that he is not bringing up a valid point. What he doesn't bring up very clearly is that in the countries with "socialized health care" people are paying much more taxes to cover the costs of the "free health care".
I personally hate paying the taxes and being in the fortunate situation and having a good insurance from my employer, I have not had any issues so far with the coverage. However I don't like the idea that so many people are without any health care and even if you have a coverage the insurance companies keeps denying the care. It sounds like in US there is sick care instead of health care, i.e. if you get sick you get care assuming you have insurance, but there is not so much emphasis on trying prevent you from getting sick in the first place.
I am originally from the country with "free health care" and high taxes. Like said, in my current situation I am very fortunate and happy, but for sure if I ever start having problems with the insurance company about the coverage I will move somewhere else.
Another issue mentioned in the film is the current medicare prescription law. I really cannot understand the point of not letting medicare to negotiate the drug prices with drug companies. Shouldn't it be obvious in capitalist world that if you buy more you can negotiate better discounts...?
There seems to a lot of prejudice about the movie depending what is one's view on Michael Moore. I would suggest everyone be openminded and watch the movie first and what to think about it and at the same time be skeptic enough to remember that everything what is shown in TV is not fact regardless if it is coming from movie director or from the government.
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Yes, you could always move somewhere else.
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Sicko has just started screening down here :ausflag; .
I intend on seeing it, not to help line Moores pockets, but to try and understand your health system a little better. I am still struggling with the problem of affordable transplant meds. I can't believe patients have lost transplants due to the cost of the medication. Don't misunderstand me, our system has its faults too. I don't think any system is perfect.
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When you see it, please do not judge the U.S. health system on Michael Moore's thoughts. It is a "film" not a "documentary". All systems have problems. Some countries don't transplant after a certain age. I hope the day comes when we all can have equal treatments world wide. Isn't it amazing we can all gather here and compare? Another reason I love it here!