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Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Transplant Discussion => Topic started by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 08:34:17 AM

Title: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 08:34:17 AM
From the title im sure you can see that i am nervous about transplant. Ever since i got the news about being on the list I cant stop thinking about it. I want this kidney to last. I freak pit about the smallest things. Can any of you guide me through the process of a living kidney donor? What happens? Do they call you or do you meet with the doctor first? Details please
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Can any of you guide me through the process of a living kidney donor?
I don't really understand the question?  Generally when you are on the list you are waiting for a cadaver kidney, or a kidney that is harvested and quickly inserted into you from a donor who soon will be a cadaver. 

Feel free to read my transplant story re the cadaver kidney - http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=34003 - I go into lots of detail on what was a fairly normal cadaver kidney which had been on ice for a fair amount of time.  I was at GW not Georgetown .
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 11:19:53 AM
Sorry about that. I wanted to know the process of getting a kidney transplant when its from a living donor. Like do you meet the surgeon first? How quickly do they schedule the surgery. But i see you have a cadaver kidney so I think you might not know much about the living kidney donor process.  My surgeon thought living donor would be the best option for me.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: MooseMom on March 09, 2018, 12:01:42 PM
Do you have a donor already lined up?
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Paul on March 09, 2018, 12:28:44 PM
I have not been through the process, but I went to a talk on the subject and what they said was that both you and the donor see the surgeon and get told about the process and asked a lot of questions. They then speak to each of you alone, they want to check that the donor (A) Really understands the sacrifice they are making. (B) Really wants to go through with it. (C) That you (or someone else) is not putting pressure on the donor (D) That the donor is of sound mind.

After that there are a lot of medical tests for both of you to check that you are BOTH healthy enough to survive the operation and are compatible with each other (if you are not compatible most areas have a donor swap program).

Then finally they re-question the donor to make sure that he/she still wants to go ahead.

This is not a quick process, they want to be 100% certain that the donor understands what he/she has agreed to, what the risks are, what their life will be like after the operation and that no pressure or payment is taking place.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: MooseMom on March 09, 2018, 12:38:28 PM
My surgeon thought living donor would be the best option for me.

Well, yes.  Every surgeon thinks that!

Paul has it pretty much down pat.  If you are listed, that means you have been deemed healthy enough to be able to endure the surgery.  It is not easy finding a living donor who succeeds in passing all of the testing.  The timing of everything largely will depend upon how quickly the donor gets the tests done.  You will completely in his/her hands.  If your donor starts to have second thoughts, s/he might not be quite so eager to get all of the testing done on a timely basis.  No one will talk about scheduling before you find a donor who has been cleared.  Once you find one, oftentimes it will be that donor who decides the schedule because s/he may have to take time off work or school.  Your prospective donor will meet A surgeon but not necessarily THE surgeon who will end up performing the transplant on the day.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 01:09:24 PM
Its my understanding that you basically give the potential donor some information including the transplant center's contact information and its their responsibility to call in to the transplant center to see if they qualify to start the testing process.  Some people have potential donors that just work, other people may have many potential donors but still have a hard time finding someone who will be compatible.  Ideally your transplant center should provide you with handouts and/or instructions for your potential donors on how to start the process.

They want you to find a donor because its most likely to be a kidney that lasts longer and is better quality.  Plus it adds an additional kidney to the pool so you and they don't need to wait for a cadaver kidney that matches you at a point where you qualify for the offer.  If you have potential donors its the best way to go.

Also I should mention that GW at some point in a group education session claimed that some altruistic donors showed up and offered kidneys.  I found that idea as some sort of marketing gimmick to people who are scared of the wait - as if maybe you don't need to wait to get to the top of the list because someone might come off the street and offer the program a kidney that you end up getting.  I'm sure the odds of a cadaver kidney is much higher.  Especially if you have a long dialysis history that puts you years ahead of the new people.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 02:32:14 PM
No donor lined up. On the list will get a donor when available.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 02:34:55 PM
Will get a donor from the list. I am not taking a friends or families kindey this time.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 03:30:39 PM
Will get a donor from the list. I am not taking a friends or families kindey this time.
That's what I did. That usually means you will get a cadaver kidney.  They are still great but they might start filtering and lowering creatinine a tad slower than a live donor.

And when you look at the kidney longevity it's slightly shorter. This is a made up number but it's something like 13 years for cadaver on average versus 15 for living donor.

Remember averages can be deceiving.  Take two people, one looses their kidney immediately, but the second lasts 30 years, that's a 15 year averages longevity.

So hope for being on the far upper end of the kidney longevity average.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 03:37:33 PM
No I wont be getting a cadaver kidney. During the transplant evaluation theres a paper you sign if you accept cadaver kidneys and the doctor made sure I didnt check the box. There are live donors that just donate and also theirs this thing called paired exchange which is also a way to get live fonor kidneys.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 03:42:28 PM
Will talk to coordinator about this since I am confused I could be mistaken and could receive a cadaver kidney.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 09, 2018, 03:54:48 PM
Quote
Will get a donor from the list.
The list of which you speak is composed exclusively of dead people.
Quote
No I wont be getting a cadaver kidney.
Oxymoron alert, when combined with your first statement.
Quote
Will talk to coordinator about this since I am confused I could be mistaken and could receive a cadaver kidney.
Unless you supply the donor, you will be receiving a cadaver kidney.  The concept of "Wait list" does not exist for live donors. 

With VERY rare exception, you will not be receiving a live donor kidney unless you have arranged for the donation.   We're talking AP news item rare.  Sure, there is the rare case of the altruistic donor, but it is exceedingly rare for someone to contact a transplant center and say "give my left one to anyone, I just wanna be cut".   You are almost certainly not going to get a live donor kidney by simply not checking "will not accept cadaver".   It doesn't work that way.   In fact, I doubt that is what the box actually said.

If you arrange a donor, you will be aware of an extensive workup to make sure the donor is suitable, and will not be put at risk by the procedure.   Losing a recipient (as in letting one die) on occasion is OK for a transplant center, but losing a donor can get the entire program shut down.  This is a bigger issue for liver transplants as the surgery is riskier for both recipient and donor.

You will be told a bit about any kidney offered and given a few minutes to decide if you want it,  Think this out ahead of time; you can't tell the transplant surgeon "I'll get back to you tomorrow".    Key points are cardiac or brain death; regular or high risk donor; KDPI (kidney donor profile index) EPTS (Expected Post Transplant Survival); the later determining what range of KDPI you are eligible for.  A high risk donor is one who is a known drug user; has an unknown history; or has done any recent jail/prison time (might have dropped the soap). Nucleac Acid Testing detects HIV with a few days of infection, so that risk is now minimal even in the high risk pool.

Perhaps your doc made sure you did not check the box stating you would accept a kidney with KDPI >= 85 (1-100, low #s better) which was formerly termed an "extended criteria" kidney.    You have to explicitly accept one in this high range, and doing so it not generally recommended for younger people who are tolerating the big D.  Higher KDPI kidneys have a shorter post transplant half life.

Quote
paired exchange which is also a way to get live fonor kidneys
True, but you need one of the donors in the paired exchange (or exchange chain) to say "I am donating to the pair/exchange so Aaisha can get a kidney from one of the other participants".   You don't get assigned to a pair/exchange unless someone is making a deposit to the organ bank on your behalf.  Thing of it like a bank account where another depositor allows you to withdraw from his/her account.

With all due respect, it appears that your transplant center has done an inadequate job of educating you.   If they didn't discuss EPTS, KDPI, what it takes to get an < 20 KPDI kidney, high risk donor pool, NAT HIV testing, etc. they left our important stuff.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 04:03:38 PM
I see what you mean. I will talk to the coordinator. Thanks for explaining
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Paul on March 09, 2018, 05:16:28 PM
Aaisha.Dar Re-reading this thread one thing has crossed my mind. What country do you live in? I, and I think all other posters have been assuming USA, however your posts in this thread make me think you could be elsewhere. You do not have to answer this question, but someone may be able to give you a more accurate answer if we knew which legal system you live under.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 09, 2018, 06:00:19 PM
I do live in the US, virginia to be exact. This whole discussion has got me thinking though. Not sure I want to go on with the process of its a cadaver kidney. Please No one take offense to this at all but I feel with my situation and how my first kidney failed I wouldn't want to go through the disappointment again. It was tough on me i was only 13. I feel if i am going through such a big surgery and going through a lot I would want the kidney to be at its highest survival rate. Will let you guys know what the coordinator says if i talk to her on monday
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Paul on March 09, 2018, 06:36:13 PM
I do live in the US, virginia to be exact.

In that case my thoughts were wrong, sorry. I thought you may have been located somewhere like Turkey where is would have been reasonable to expect the hospital to find you a live donor.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 07:02:37 PM
Someone will correct me but basically you sign a document that you will or will not receive a post death kidney. 

I believe that means you will receive a kidney that comes from a donor who is brain dead but they have the donor on life support. So the kidney did not experience the trama of death prior to being removed from the body. The donor will still die at some point. I believe the kidney still may be on ice but it didn't have the trama of death.

I received a kidney that had experienced death.  It's superior to receive kidneys that do not experience death.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 09, 2018, 08:05:57 PM
The donor will still die at some point. I believe the kidney still may be on ice but it didn't have the trama of death.
Brain death is death.  The form would never refer to such a donor as alive.  The term for a brain dead body fully stopping is cardiac death.

Quote
Someone will correct me but basically you sign a document that you will or will not receive a post death kidney.
My bet is on the form stating she will not accept an extended criteria >= 85% KDPI kidney. It will be interesting to hear from her after she talks to her coordinator.

Quote
somewhere like Turkey where is would have been reasonable to expect the hospital to find you a live donor.
If they were talking the hospital finding a live donor, there would be a substantial fee.   Iran is the only country where it is officially legal, however, they used to (and still may) sell executed prisoner organs at BEK transplant in Shanghai.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: MooseMom on March 09, 2018, 08:34:10 PM
Aaisha.Dar, if you don't want to accept a kidney from a friend or family member, then you will be left with only two options.  You can go on the list and wait for a cadaveric donor, or you can go on the list and wait probably a much longer time for an altruistic donor as Simon Dog explained on a previous post in this thread.

Simon Dog and iolaire are probably right in suspecting that the form you signed was meant to indicate that you would not accept an "extended criteria" kidney, which, at your age, would be understandably sub-optimal.

Clearly there are some grave misunderstandings between you and your transplant coordinator.  That you would think that you could pick a live donor from a list tells me that perhaps your team has not adequately informed you.  Simon Dog's post(s) are well worth re-reading.

Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 08:35:29 PM
Thanks Simon Dog for the term, yes I think the signed document relates to receiving post "cardiac death" kidneys or not. When I was presented with the choice last year at GW it was that.

Five years before at INOVA I signed something about considering higher risk kidneys from drug users, people who had been in prison or who have had unprotected sex.  I remember that document at GW last year. 
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 09, 2018, 08:37:48 PM
Quote
Someone will correct me but basically you sign a document that you will or will not receive a post death kidney.
My bet is on the form stating she will not accept an extended criteria >= 85% KDPI kidney. It will be interesting to hear from her after she talks to her coordinator.
I think she is rather young and would not be offered those high KDPI kidneys.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 09, 2018, 10:08:44 PM
Simon Dog's post(s) are well worth re-reading.
Thank you for the vote of confidence.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Paul on March 10, 2018, 03:04:51 AM
If they were talking the hospital finding a live donor, there would be a substantial fee.

Well, yes. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Iran is the only country where it is officially legal

I believe it is legal in Turkey too, which is why I mentioned that country. However this is only hearsay (when I was first diagnosed with kidney disease I was advised by slightly amoral friends to move there or become a "medical tourist" there, I never bothered to check the facts they quoted at me because I don't intend to do that). I am also under the impression that there is one or more Asian country where it is legal to sell one of your kidneys.

Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 10, 2018, 05:31:30 AM
If you get a transplant outside a Medicare approved facility (ie, buy one on the foreign market), you do not get any financial assistance from Medicare for post transplant drugs.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Paul on March 10, 2018, 05:43:06 AM
If you get a transplant outside a Medicare approved facility (ie, buy one on the foreign market), you do not get any financial assistance from Medicare for post transplant drugs.

I was NOT suggesting anyone do this, I was just explaining why I had thought it possible, from previous posts, that Aaisha.Dar was Turkish.

In Britain it is a criminal offence to go abroad and buy an organ (or even blood).
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 08:35:19 AM
I think I probably signed the kdpi thing where I wouldn't accept a kidney that is high risk. The team explained everything fairly well. I think it was just a lot if information at once that i probably misunderstood. Im sure if the team thinks its okau for me to accept a kidney from a deceased donor then maybe its okay for me to go along with it.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 10, 2018, 10:13:23 AM
You need to understand terms of art in transplantation.

"High Risk" means a kidney from someone with unknown health history, a history of drug use, or possible time in a prison shower.

"High KDPI" brings a higher risk of failure at a sooner time, and is separate from "high risk".

A "High risk donor" kidney can have a very low KDPI and vice-versa.

I suspect you signed "no high KDPI" rather than "no high risk donor".   This risk of catching a disease from a high risk done is reported as about 1 in 2000.

Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 10:34:26 AM
Okay then I signed that I wouldnt accept a high kdpi kidney.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: UkrainianTracksuit on March 10, 2018, 10:42:33 AM
Hi, I just want to reiterate what Simon Dog said. As a younger recipient, I signed a form that stated no High KDPI cadaver kidneys. This was separate from high risk as my first call was for high risk organs. (They did add prostitution and homosexual men to this list as well.) Even if you receive a call for one of these, keep in mind that the organs are safe. Simon noted the small risk as the extra testing is stringent.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 10:46:26 AM
Thanks for the explanation. Another reason why I would've preferred a live donor is because I am in school. Being the person I am I like to plan things out ahead of time. Also I have a lot of antibodies so I am wondering how I can get rid of those before the transplant.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: UkrainianTracksuit on March 10, 2018, 11:13:55 AM
It is understandable that you would like to plan things out since you are in school and not want to lose credits and such. When I became active on the list, I had to turn down a job because I didn't know when the call would come or how long I would be out of commission. That said, I did let my other employers know that I could disappear from work for awhile. I tried hard to find a live donor in the beginning but then when I decided to pursue a double tx, a deceased donor was my safest bet. So far, so good.

That said, when I got the call so quickly, I was unprepared. I packed a bag when I learned I was active on the list but other things I couldn't plan. Now when I see what I packed, nothing makes sense either. If you would like a live donor, you need to actively seek one out and I am sure you already know this and others can offer tips. Then, you can pursue a paired exchanged like you mentioned, even if they are not a match for you. However, the rule of thumb with most transplants is that you can only plan so much and the rest you never can plan, really...

As for your high antibodies, your transplant center will obviously be aware of that and plan a course of action. There are medications that can be given to reduce antibodies (IVIG and plasmapheresis) and there are certain matches that can be made. This is not something you can do yourself and need to ask these questions to your tx coordinator and center to see what their plan is. At this point, make a list of questions and ask, ask, ask! They are the ones with your most concise health information and how to handle your specific issues/questions.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 11:36:30 AM
Thank you for the tips. I do feel very unprepared. I am waiting for Monday to come so I can ask these questions and get a better understanding of everything.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 02:03:45 PM
Now that I am learning more and more I am thinking about changing hospitals for my kidney transplant. I am orginally at INOVA in fairfax and I for transplant I was evaluated at Medstar Georgetown in DC. INOVA is 20 minutes away from my house and since we have no idea when a kidney could be available I think it would be smart to go to the closest hospital. Also I know about DC traffic very well. I used to go to Childrens hospital and it was always crazy traffic.
When transferring hospitals do i have to get another evaluation done? Im already on the list. Do they need anything more from me?
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 10, 2018, 04:46:24 PM
Since you were just approved at Georgetown you should need much more testing. You might need a few tests but they can get most of the records from Georgetown.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 05:21:06 PM

Since you were just approved at Georgetown you should need much more testing. You might need a few tests but they can get most of the records from Georgetown.
What other tests need ti be done? Do I have to redo any of the tests that would be frustrating. If its a hassle I might of just stay there. Where did you get your transplant?
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 10, 2018, 06:08:49 PM

Since you were just approved at Georgetown you should need much more testing. You might need a few tests but they can get most of the records from Georgetown.
What other tests need ti be done? Do I have to redo any of the tests that would be frustrating. If its a hassle I might of just stay there. Where did you get your transplant?
Talk to the program to find out what you need. It should be minor if the rest of your tests are recent. 

I do recommend going with the program most convenient to you as you will spend a lot of time heading into the clinic post transplant.

I received my transplant at GW after five years listed at INOVA. I live close to Shirlington. So GW was much closer and I work downtown so once I was back at work it still was close. I'm happy I switched.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: SweetyPie on March 10, 2018, 06:11:15 PM

Since you were just approved at Georgetown you should need much more testing. You might need a few tests but they can get most of the records from Georgetown.
What other tests need ti be done? Do I have to redo any of the tests that would be frustrating. If its a hassle I might of just stay there. Where did you get your transplant?
Talk to the program to find out what you need. It should be minor if the rest of your tests are recent. 

I do recommend going with the program most convenient to you as you will spend a lot of time heading into the clinic post transplant.

I received my transplant at GW after five years listed at INOVA. I live close to Shirlington. So GW was much closer and I work downtown so once I was back at work it still was close. I'm happy I switched.
Does seem like a good idea to switch. If I switch it would be easier on the family to take me to my appointments. Will talk to them on Monday. Hope all goes well.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: Simon Dog on March 10, 2018, 07:39:04 PM
Chances are good the new center will accept test records, however, you will still have to go through a process that will probably include a transplant committee review.  You'll be off-list for a while, but the good news is that you will not lose any wait time, and the time you spend waiting to become active at the new center will count.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: iolaire on March 10, 2018, 07:56:26 PM
Chances are good the new center will accept test records, however, you will still have to go through a process that will probably include a transplant committee review.  You'll be off-list for a while, but the good news is that you will not lose any wait time, and the time you spend waiting to become active at the new center will count.

I stayed on the list through the change of centers.  Once the new program accepts you they send a letter to both the regional network and old center.
Title: Re: Nervous about transplant
Post by: KellosKidney on May 05, 2018, 05:23:12 PM
Here's how it worked for me (I just had a preemptive live donor transplant last Friday) :