I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: MooseMom on December 16, 2016, 10:17:47 AM
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Well, we might as well have a bit of fun with this, right? :thumbup;
I predict that since the CIA and all other US security agencies now agree that Putin had his slimy fingers in our election to help Trump, Trump will return the favor by dropping sanctions so that Putin and his pals can get rich again.
I predict that since the outgoing Secretary of Energy Moniz is a nuclear physicist and helped broker the Iran deal, incoming Energy Secretary (giggle) Rick Perry :rofl;, will do something stupid, forgetting that Iran and the US are not the only signatories to the deal.
Anyone else want to make any predictions?
Oh, I also predict that John Bolton won't be confirmed for any position. He's just too weird and crazy.
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I predict that we are all royally screwed and that the inmates will now be officially running the mental hospital that is the Trump administration. Bye bye democracy. Bye bye republic.
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With his inability to follow a sane foreign policy Trump is setting the stage forKim the eel head of North Korea ito invade the South. He is going to get a lot of American and Korean kids killed. Plus if you thought Iraq was expensive wait until the bill comes in for a Korean War II.
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He's just itching to deploy all his new shiny military toys. He's going to get a lot of people killed--either quickly in war, or slowly by withdrawing the safety net or destroying the environment. My own personal will to live has never been weaker.
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You guys are so negative. Let's be positive and give the guy a chance. What happened to "the voters, the Electoral Voters win so quit whining"??
Let's have HOPE.
:flower;
Whomever did hack the DNC, all they did was uncover what was being done and said that was corrupt.... Burnie Sanders should be pissed off. He probably would have won if not for Hillary's deceit. I'm glad it was uncovered. Saved us from Hillary.
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Let's be positive and give the guy a chance.
And have you been paying attention to his cabinet picks? Really?
Okay, in the spirit of MM's original post....
I predict.... Public schools will go the way of the dinosaur and only the rich will be able to get an education for their children.
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Access to health care ONLY if you're very rich. Otherwise, just die quickly. That's the GOP way.
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Within our own borders, I predict only wealthy white men will live with the freedoms we have now. Women will be subjugated. The poor will be even more poor. Non-white people will have to constantly watch their backs for hate crime attacks, which will no longer be called hate crimes. A "Christian" version of sharia law will begin to form.
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Well, we might as well have a bit of fun with this, right? :thumbup;
I predict that since the CIA and all other US security agencies now agree that Putin had his slimy fingers in our election to help Trump, Trump will return the favor by dropping sanctions so that Putin and his pals can get rich again.
I predict that since the outgoing Secretary of Energy Moniz is a nuclear physicist and helped broker the Iran deal, incoming Energy Secretary (giggle) Rick Perry :rofl;, will do something stupid, forgetting that Iran and the US are not the only signatories to the deal.
Anyone else want to make any predictions?
Oh, I also predict that John Bolton won't be confirmed for any position. He's just too weird and crazy.
... I have heard (is it rumour or is it actual fact?) about the CIA and other US security agencies agreeing (?) that Mr. Putin somehow assisted Mr. Donald Trump to get elected (?)
... But ... how could something like that be possible and what could be a possible motive? ... And ... was it not the American people who voted for Mr. Donald Trump as their President?
Many thanks for the answer from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Yes, Kristina, it is an actual fact.
I should make it clear that there is no evidence of any hacking into any election/voting machines.
However, US security agencies have known for some time now that Russians have been hacking into the systems of both the Democrats and the GOP, but it was Putin who decided which hacked information would be leaked. So, during the final weeks of the election, a lot of attention in this country was focused on the hacked emails of John Podesta, Clinton's campaign manager, which didn't contain any kind of important information, but that was hardly the point. I could post a whole shedload of links to prove this, but google "John Podesta's emails", and you will be able to see for yourself. You will notice that no information hacked from the GOP was leaked.
Nothing happens in Russia without Putin's knowledge, and this certainly is the case when it comes to cyberterrorism.
As for motive, well, there are two. One is that Putin hates Hillary Clinton for statements that she made about the undemocratic nature of Russian elections while she was Sec. of State (yeah, like she's wrong) and this is his way of exacting revenge. The other is that Putin wants Trump as president. Why? Well, we should all be able to see Trump's tax returns to get that whole picture, but Trump refuses to release them. But we all know that there are close business ties between these two men. Putin and his rich friends are affected by sanctions placed upon their assets because of Putin's actions in the Ukraine, so who better to have as President to convince to lift those pesky sanctions?
Did you see the photo of Putin and his friends toasting Trump's victory?
Yes, it was the American people who voted for Trump, but who do you think planted all of those stories about her having Parkinson's and hacked into the DNC's emails? People will believe any old crap these days.
This may help explain it better than I can.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/16/qa-russian-hackers-vladimir-putin-donald-trump-us-presidential-election
The bottom line is that the leader of a foreign and hostile nation meddled in a US election in the attempt to get one candidate of his choice elected. He's going after Angela Merkel next.
Edited to add: Kristina, as per the Constitution, it is technically the Electoral College that officially elects the President. A goodly number of them are now requesting intelligence briefings before they cast their vote on Monday. They have been denied this information, so I don't know how many who are pledged to Trump will become "faithless" electoral voters (in which they vote against the will of the people of the state they represent). The electoral voters are not legally bound to vote as per their state. No one really believes the outcome of the election will be changed, but then again, no one thought Trump would be President, and no one thought that Brexit would become reality! That's all part of this incredible situation!!!
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Many thanks MooseMom for these comprehensive (and quite shocking) facts and explanations ...
... as you can imagine, I have to sit down now and think about it for a while and try to make sense of it all...
... and ... it just goes to show that people are just amazing and everything and anything seems to be possible in this world...
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Well, might it just all have to do with oil and money?
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The bottom line is that the leader of a foreign and hostile nation meddled in a US election in the attempt to get one candidate of his choice elected. H
It's not like the US ever did this with any foreign elections :rant;
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Well, might it just all have to do with oil and money?
... that is exactly what I was just wondering, especially since noticing some $$$$-people around Mr. Trump as his political advisors...
... made me also wonder whether these "hacking-accusations" and so-called "Putin-involvement-accusations" etc. were nothing but "red herrings" to distract from the real issues ... ?
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Kristina, the idea of Russian involvement and influence in an American Presidential election IS a real issue!
The evidence is there. We all know it. Even Senator Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader of the Senate, has known about it since the autumn.
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The bottom line is that the leader of a foreign and hostile nation meddled in a US election in the attempt to get one candidate of his choice elected. H
It's not like the US ever did this with any foreign elections :rant;
So what?
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Kristina, the idea of Russian involvement and influence in an American Presidential election IS a real issue!
The evidence is there. We all know it. Even Senator Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader of the Senate, has known about it since the autumn.
But what could be the purpose of any Russian involvement? Isn't Mr. Putin mainly interested in Mr. Putin ... ?
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But what could be the purpose of any Russian involvement?
This, for starters:
“Trump advocates isolationist policies and an abdication of U.S. leadership in the world. He cares little about promoting democracy and human rights. A U.S. retreat from global affairs fits precisely with Putin’s international interests.”
[snip]
"it is sweet revenge for the Kremlin to be cast once again as global puppet master. And most fundamentally, the Kremlin’s support for Trump is part of a longstanding strategy to sow disruption and discord in the West. Whether it’s by backing French ultra-nationalists, Catalan separatists or the Brexit campaign, or boosting Donald Trump’s chances by blackening the Democrats, the Kremlin believes Russia benefits every time the Western establishment is embarrassed."
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/09/vladimir-putin-donald-trump-493946.html
This article spells it out quite clearly https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/20/new-special-relationship-what-does-putin-want-from-trump-kgb
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Plus, Trump is known for rewarding loyalty. He will no doubt feel indebted to Putin and feel the need to return the favor.
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Plus, Trump is known for rewarding loyalty. He will no doubt feel indebted to Putin and feel the need to return the favor.
You are probably right, and I predict that lifting sanctions will be one way he returns that favor.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/exxon-mobile-russia-sanctions-rex-tillerson-232770
Hence the Rex Tillerson pick.
But to be fair, I don't know Mr. Tillerson personally. He may be exactly the person to "handle" Putin. The question that the Senate will have to have answered is whether Mr. Tillerson will put the interests of the USA before the desire for personal profit and power. This article made me feel a little bit better about this pick. Well just have to see.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/12/private-emperor-public-envoy
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I predict Trump won't make it through the 1st year! Pence will take over.
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... I very much hope that people suffering from chronic diseases i.e. ESRF/dialysis/cancer etc. are continued to be given a chance to receive proper healthcare under the presidency of Mr. Donald Trump, even if these patients have become very poor due to their long-term chronic disease and therefore are in urgent need of some $$$-medical and $$$-social assistance...
What I really mean to say, is, I do hope that Mr. Trump's presidency does not stop the Healthcare-Reform set-up by Mr.Obama ... :grouphug;
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I predict he will take one HUGE Vacation and let tons of drug dealers out of jail and Let thousands of refugees in America.
Oh, wait, that is Obama! :secret;
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How do you keep coming up with such unrepentant BS? You are a bottomless font of fake news.
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How do you keep coming up with such unrepentant BS? You are a bottomless font of fake news.
LOL!
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I predict Trump won't make it through the 1st year! Pence will take over.
Whoa.............hang on a minute. President Pence would be another kind of terrifying.
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True ,but he is the next in line :(
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There are those who think that Pence is already doing the presidenting and Trump is just a figurehead who bops around rallies soaking up "the love." Trump seems ensconced in his tower in his own world taking orders from Bannon and maybe Flynn or Conway. And Ivanca.
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There are those who think that Pence is already doing the presidenting and Trump is just a figurehead who bops around rallies soaking up "the love." Trump seems ensconced in his tower in his own world taking orders from Bannon and maybe Flynn or Conway. And Ivanca.
There are many more who KNOW this to be true. It's no secret. This was how the deal was presented to Pence in the first place.
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Fake News?
I heard that on CBS and they were happy with it. Thought you would be too! Guess not? :rofl;
You are S___ is as S____ does. :waving; (trying to stay within the rules) :cheer:
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I predict he will take one HUGE Vacation and let tons of drug dealers out of jail and Let thousands of refugees in America.
Oh, wait, that is Obama! :secret;
Well, I am happy about it!
The Obamas are certainly entitled to a long and well deserved vacation! I hope they have a wonderful time. Throughout this transition period, the Obamas have been the only people who have shown any grace whatsoever, and Donald Trump owes them bigly.
There are too many petty druggies in our for-profit, corporate run prisons, and we all know the stats that show that Latinos or blacks are more likely to be imprisoned for the same drug crimes than their white counterparts. We have more people imprisoned than any other country on earth, so I am delighted that Obama is doing something about it.
We should be ashamed that we are so scared of refugees who have been subjected to such horrors. Refugees who are allowed into this country have been through a 2 year MINIMUM vetting process, but people like Donald Trump and his followers are cowards and are selfish. We think we are so special, so brave and so exceptional, yet we allow ourselves to be frightened by people who have been through an experience more terrifying than anyone of us could possibly imagine. So I say let them in. Let them come in and help revitalize towns that are experiencing economic downturns. This exact thing is already happening all over our country, and I am all for stepping it up.
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You are flip flopping, Again.
I'm accused of FAKE News and a liar.... but then you agree with what Obama has done, is doing.... And you are happy.
Is it because you finally heard it yourself? or I quoted CBS instead of Fox. What a lefty.
Shame on you! You know what? We WON so I don't care about your whining. Loser!
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You're confusing me with K@S, Rerun.
I'm proud of being a "lefty" just as you are proud of being a Trumpy. So what?
CBS and every other media outlet has been conned into reporting on "fake news", so CBS is no different than FOX in my mind. But no matter the source of information, all of those actions taken by Obama are true. No one is denying them, so yes, I am happy.
What exactly do you think you've won?
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Merry Christmas MM
I need to enjoy the season. 2017 should be the best year for both of us. :cuddle;
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Merry Christmas MM
I need to enjoy the season. 2017 should be the best year for both of us. :cuddle;
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Rerun! You've been a renal warrior for years and a champion of IHD, and I appreciate you and hope that this season and all of 2017 brings you nothing but peace. I love you dearly. :bestwishes; No political punditry from any side can change that! :thumbup;
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I see no need to take sides in what is posted on this forum, as it is no more than a snapshot of our present entire American society. For the last eight years, we all have been privileged to have the “most transparent government” in American history, thanks to “Honest Abe” Barrack Obama.
What Americans have always known to be true is now shattered to smithereens. We are at each other’s throat. The progress since the 60’s that we have made in racial equality, is now set back decades. We have compromised our international integrity. Our national debt is devouring us alive. Our border security is - - - - - um, why name something that doesn’t exist?
The last national election allowed us to narrowly escape more of the same. We now have someone who, overall has been unusually successful in most of his endeavors, many of his principal talents can be applied to obtaining successful outcomes in a host of ambitions. It is a given that this man is a very different player in the field that he is entering, but this country desperately need a new course if we are to weather the storms that are on the horizon.
If the last 66 years doesn’t demonstrate the instability of factors controlling our country, you need to take a break and just allow your common sense to function, for a change. As we stand now, we are becoming ripe for picking by some very unfriendly powers. It just may be that our President-Elect, if given the support than anyone deserves, will in fact, prove to be a very gifted person at a time when certainly need one. If you don’t make the best on what you have, what can you expect but the worst.
I remember VJ day. It’s my bet that many of you don’t know what that is. That doesn’t mean that I am smart, but that many years does give me some wisdom!
:bow;
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In 2003 I was working at AT&T when George Bush invaded Iraq. I thought it was a stupid move, I also thought the way they invaded was stupid. I was called every name from unamerican to traitor. I must admit I did not support Bush in 2000 and thought his election was a travesty. But the American people bought in to this and fully supported it. It turned out I was right and by 2006 the American people regretted the election of Bush. I could be wrong but I feel the American people made another dumb choice. Either in Korea, Mideast, or the South China Sea I firmly believe his loose cannon approach to diplomacy will again involve us in a war a bad as Iraq 2003,
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:waving;
There is not one thing that our President-Elect has said, or done, that has not prompted criticism, and this is fine, during the campaign; but we are past that and we have a President-Elect, not a candidate. We have what we have, and that is it, period. If we are to make a better future, we must look forward in a positive manner, if we see our leader putting his foot into the swamp he may be going in to pull the plug. It often is that the team with the most positive support ends up being the winning team. Criticism is rarely productive, unless it is constructive criticism. If that is true, we have an awful lot of people shooting themselves in the foot when they should be putting on their work boots.
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A voice from the wilderness at last. I agree with you, what is done is done, stop trying to rip us all to pieces and offer positive solutions to problems, not the ripping apart that has been going on in this post. Your attitude is a lot like Rerun's and mine also, and it would be nice to be in accord again.
Thanks
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If the voices supporting Drumph the idiot said the same thing 8 years ago maybe I would feel the need to respect the president elect. But he spent the last 8 years leading the disrespectful attacks on the current president. As you sow you shall reap. The republicans disgraceful actions of the past 8 years provide a blueprint for the democratic actions of the next 8 years. This pervert is the president, but he does not have a mandate since almost 3 million more people voted for his opponent. The democrats must obstruct, oppose, and delay this moron at every step. It's going to be a fund next 4 years.
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Trump is not a republican or a conservative. He is a neo-fascist and I will oppose his dictatorship to the fullest extent possible. That is what a true American patriot would do, not just roll over and accept the next iteration of Hitler because a lot of uninformed people who wanted to destroy America voted for him. All our brave veterans didn't fight WW2 so that this dangerous man could then repeat the atrocity. They say that history doesn't repeat itself, it rhymes.
Trump was illegitimately "elected" by Comey, the rogue FBI and by Vladimir Putin. Just because he has an "R" after his name does not make him legitimate.
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If the voices supporting Drumph the idiot said the same thing 8 years ago maybe I would feel the need to respect the president elect. But he spent the last 8 years leading the disrespectful attacks on the current president. As you sow you shall reap. The republicans disgraceful actions of the past 8 years provide a blueprint for the democratic actions of the next 8 years. This pervert is the president, but he does not have a mandate since almost 3 million more people voted for his opponent. The democrats must obstruct, oppose, and delay this moron at every step. It's going to be a fund next 4 years.
Oh my! The voice (Michael Moore) of elections past, at the most appropriate season. With due respect for your status on this fantastic forum, that is where it stops. My grandmother was a Murphy, thank God, not from the same genetic pool (swamp) as yours. She was an immigrant, legal, I might add, and she loved America with a fiery passion. She baby-sat me for many years while my parents worked. It was by her teachings that helped build the solid foundation that I stand on today. She, and millions of others like her were the people that struggled to construct what became the greatest country in history.
Today we are witness to the worst attack this nation has ever suffered, and it comes from, not only a foreign power, but from within. How do we respond to this attack and the one that is simultaneously occurring by an enemy that cuts off heads and bombs our people in the streets?
Your comments typify the mentality that is fueling the fire that threatens to destroy this country, and the enemy that cuts off heads, sees your actions as that of an unwitting co-conspirator.
As Americans, we have to choose to see the challenges that we face for what they are. A sole political party cannot, and will not, be capable of meeting these challenges. As in the past, today’s challenges must be met by all Americans, united together by the common sense that has fortified our basic freedom for over 200 years. The BS is becoming too deep, and it is not coming from just one direction. We have stepped off our solid rock and we are in quicksand; the more we struggle, the more entrapped we become. - - - - Duh = (look it up!).
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Trump and Putin are like two high school kids bragging about who has the biggest johnson (nuclear arsenal) and i predict neither one will go into the shower room together to find out .
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I refuse to respond to personal attacks, however your response mimics your your new hero who responds to criticism with personal attacks.
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She, and millions of others like her were the people that struggled to construct what became the greatest country in history.
I have no doubt that's true, but don't forget the millions of others who were NOT like her who constructed what became the greatest country in the world.
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I refuse to respond to personal attacks, however your response mimics your your new hero who responds to criticism with personal attacks.
One could argue that the above is a response :rofl;
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Your comments typify the mentality that is fueling the fire that threatens to destroy this country, and the enemy that cuts off heads, sees your actions as that of an unwitting co-conspirator.
This is a very dangerous statement. It is hyperbolic and is also an unreasonable non-sequitur.
As Americans, we have to choose to see the challenges that we face for what they are. A sole political party cannot, and will not, be capable of meeting these challenges. As in the past, today’s challenges must be met by all Americans, united together by the common sense that has fortified our basic freedom for over 200 years. The BS is becoming too deep, and it is not coming from just one direction. We have stepped off our solid rock and we are in quicksand; the more we struggle, the more entrapped we become. - - - - Duh = (look it up!).
In today's partisan climate, illustrated in part by your comment above regarding how people who oppose Trump are actually ISIS co-conspirators, how do you propose to unite this country? What do you think that the new President can do and should do to show that he will work to be the President for ALL Americans? Obama was criticized by his own party for trying to work with the opposition party, and the GOP famously worked to make him a one term president. Congress is filled with men with egos the size of a small planet, men who revel in influence and power. How will the President-Elect change this dynamic?
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Congress is filled with men with egos the size of a small planet, men who revel in influence and power. How will the President-Elect change this dynamic?
Trump? The man is the definition of ego personified.
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You know, it is Christmas Day, and the last thing I want to be thinking about is our partisan politics. But truth be told, these past few months have been hard for my family for various reasons that are irrelevant here, and I am not in the best of spirits.
A Trump presidency frightens me, and I don't want to be frightened. I am truly anxious about our country's future. You can call me a sore loser if you want, but honestly, that's not it. I feel really worried and scared, and I have so far seen nothing yet to console me.
I am hoping that once Trump is actually President, things will find some sense of balance, and we can get on with it. But that's still a month away and does not help to decrease my anxiety level.
So in the spirit of Christmas, I respectfully ask those of you who support Trump to please give me some morsels of hope. Please tell me why it "won't be so bad". Please don't say stuff like, "He's going to make America great again." If you DO want to say that, please tell me how you believe he will do that. Please show me how he can be MY president, too. Tell me what he is going to do for me, someone who is on the more liberal side of the spectrum. How is going to make MY life better? How is he going to ensure MY financial and economic security? How is he going to help ME as I get older? How is he going to protect MY access to health care? How is going to treat the people I care about who are gay? How is going to make it harder for ME to be shot by some nutjob with a gun? How is he going to keep MY country from becoming isolationist?
Seriously, I would SO appreciate some reassurance. I really want our country to be successful, and I am so very worried. I really need y'all's help!
Thank you. Really, thank you!
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Congress is filled with men with egos the size of a small planet, men who revel in influence and power. How will the President-Elect change this dynamic?
Trump? The man is the definition of ego personified.
Well, he's going to be our leader. A change away from this hyper-partisanship is going to have to begin with him.
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Congress is filled with men with egos the size of a small planet, men who revel in influence and power. How will the President-Elect change this dynamic?
Trump? The man is the definition of ego personified.
... That is exactly what I feel as well... plus, Mr. Trump is definitely a very good and very well versed showman... So, the people which are concerning me most of all are the people who hide behind this showman, because I very much doubt they mean well with the American people ...
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I recently read an article written by a retired Army officer describing similarities between the Spanish Civil War and what is happening now. I believe he could be right. He added that Trump has got to be more than ready to deal with this. On the world stage I think it is more important than ever to stand behind the POTUS, whether you voted for him or not. Strength in numbers...to avoid the evils that may befall us.
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A post was reported from here. Seriously folks. Get your big kid panties on if you post in here. It is not moderated. Good luck.
kitkatz-Admin
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What do you mean by "reported from here"? Did some feds demand an IP address from the admin or serve you with a national security letter?
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No I some moron said some things that I found offensive, and oddly enough about my mother. I did not realize we were allowed to reply with the same type of comments. My bad, howevever it shows the mentality of Trump supporters to follow the man who made personal remarks about any one who appeared critical of him. For some reason the people who have disrespected the Obama presidency feel we have to sing kumbaya and join hands to rejoice in the Trump election. Nope no way, the ground rules have been set over the last 8 years of Republican bigotry and obstruction. It still continues Trumps New York chaairman just made some incredibly racist remark about Obama and his wife. Not a peep from Trump, the only one to condemn the cretin was his son. To quote Sonny from The Godfather ," It's time to take to the mattresses". It won't be pretty but it sure will be fun.
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I said: I refuse to moderate the political discussions area. If you decide the get into it with someone else over here, keep it civil, but please do not report posts.
kitkatz,Admin
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No I some moron said some things that I found offensive, and oddly enough about my mother.
What?
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I said: I refuse to moderate the political discussions area. If you decide the get into it with someone else over here, keep it civil, but please do not report posts.
kitkatz,Admin
Oh deary me. Sorry someone bothered you, kitkatz. Not cool.
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An astrologer in a local paper has predicted that Donald Trump will be a great President & his cabinet the best the country has experienced in years! Personally, I have always felt this will be the case & cannot wait for the 20th January. (Yes, I'm well aware of the perils of reading newspaper astrologists, btw :))
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An astrologer in a local paper has predicted that Donald Trump will be a great President & his cabinet the best the country has experienced in years! Personally, I have always felt this will be the case & cannot wait for the 20th January. (Yes, I'm well aware of the perils of reading newspaper astrologists, btw :))
I have a hard time with thinking that something that is so reminiscent of Nazi Germany can be considered "the best the country has experienced in years!" Sounds more like a "Horror-scope" to me....
KarenInWA
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An astrologer in a local paper has predicted that Donald Trump will be a great President & his cabinet the best the country has experienced in years! Personally, I have always felt this will be the case & cannot wait for the 20th January. (Yes, I'm well aware of the perils of reading newspaper astrologists, btw :))
I have a hard time with thinking that something that is so reminiscent of Nazi Germany can be considered "the best the country has experienced in years!" Sounds more like a "Horror-scope" to me....
KarenInWA
Exactly my feelings, Karen. He definitely "drained the swamp" by putting them in his cabinet. These will be interesting times. Let's see how many foreign powers he manages to offend (besides Russia, who we know he wants to cozy up to!). And with his immature temperament and his finger on the button, no telling what will happen. I'm not sure I want the times to be THAT interesting! :P
Aleta
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You know, it is Christmas Day, and the last thing I want to be thinking about is our partisan politics. But truth be told, these past few months have been hard for my family for various reasons that are irrelevant here, and I am not in the best of spirits.
A Trump presidency frightens me, and I don't want to be frightened. I am truly anxious about our country's future. You can call me a sore loser if you want, but honestly, that's not it. I feel really worried and scared, and I have so far seen nothing yet to console me.
I am hoping that once Trump is actually President, things will find some sense of balance, and we can get on with it. But that's still a month away and does not help to decrease my anxiety level.
So in the spirit of Christmas, I respectfully ask those of you who support Trump to please give me some morsels of hope. Please tell me why it "won't be so bad". Please don't say stuff like, "He's going to make America great again." If you DO want to say that, please tell me how you believe he will do that. Please show me how he can be MY president, too. Tell me what he is going to do for me, someone who is on the more liberal side of the spectrum. How is going to make MY life better? How is he going to ensure MY financial and economic security? How is he going to help ME as I get older? How is he going to protect MY access to health care? How is going to treat the people I care about who are gay? How is going to make it harder for ME to be shot by some nutjob with a gun? How is he going to keep MY country from becoming isolationist?
Seriously, I would SO appreciate some reassurance. I really want our country to be successful, and I am so very worried. I really need y'all's help!
Thank you. Really, thank you!
I'm still awaiting a response to THIS. Athena? People are dancing in the streets in your country, so maybe you can tell me why. Anyone have any reassuring words of comfort?
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Don't hold your breath, MM.
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You know, it is Christmas Day, and the last thing I want to be thinking about is our partisan politics. But truth be told, these past few months have been hard for my family for various reasons that are irrelevant here, and I am not in the best of spirits.
A Trump presidency frightens me, and I don't want to be frightened. I am truly anxious about our country's future. You can call me a sore loser if you want, but honestly, that's not it. I feel really worried and scared, and I have so far seen nothing yet to console me.
I am hoping that once Trump is actually President, things will find some sense of balance, and we can get on with it. But that's still a month away and does not help to decrease my anxiety level.
So in the spirit of Christmas, I respectfully ask those of you who support Trump to please give me some morsels of hope. Please tell me why it "won't be so bad". Please don't say stuff like, "He's going to make America great again." If you DO want to say that, please tell me how you believe he will do that. Please show me how he can be MY president, too. Tell me what he is going to do for me, someone who is on the more liberal side of the spectrum. How is going to make MY life better? How is he going to ensure MY financial and economic security? How is he going to help ME as I get older? How is he going to protect MY access to health care? How is going to treat the people I care about who are gay? How is going to make it harder for ME to be shot by some nutjob with a gun? How is he going to keep MY country from becoming isolationist?
Seriously, I would SO appreciate some reassurance. I really want our country to be successful, and I am so very worried. I really need y'all's help!
Thank you. Really, thank you!
I'm still awaiting a response to THIS. Athena? People are dancing in the streets in your country, so maybe you can tell me why. Anyone have any reassuring words of comfort?
Moosemum, I wasn't aware that you were actually waiting for a response from anyone, much less from me. I cannot possibly imagine what words of reassurance I could offer you right now. Except to say, that we here in my country now appear to be dancing in the streets because of all the New Year celebrations, not because of anything else (that was a joke!). My last post about a newspaper astrological prediction was meant to be as light-hearted & humourous as it was corny. It was not meant to exacerbate anyone's stress.
You really do sound quite anxious and worried and that is a pretty sad thing. I wish I could transfer some of our enthusiasm and optimism about the side that actually won onto you now & anybody else who may be worried. But that is impossible because our minds are all locked into believing what we have already decided to believe will happen. And nobody really knows with 100% certainty what will happen - whether it be our side or the 'wrong side' had won. If it had been the 'wrong side' that had won (from my perspective), I'd be now putting all my energy into restoring my faith and trust in that leadership ... Which is a simple, universal coping mechanism.
We are all united by our common medical concerns and for me personally, I like to focus on things that take me away from the reality of being a medical patient - which non-medical economic/political/social affairs enables me to do. And that is the sole basis for my participation in this particular thread.
I hope you can find anything at all in the current situation that can give you some comfort and reassurance. There has to be something, surely?
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Athena, no, I can't find anything reassuring at all, and that's why I am asking. It's a genuine question because my worries are genuine and are also pretty profound.
You've said that you and your fellow countrymen are optimistic and enthusiastic. Can you tell me why, and can you give me specifics?
Do you have a national health service where you live? How do people pay for their dialysis treatments?
If ANYONE can list reasons that I should be happy and optimistic, I truly would be grateful. Today I was listening to the radio and heard how Paul Ryan, et al aim to dismantle Medicare and Social Security. I had to turn it off. I ended up with a stonking great headache.
Please talk me off the ledge. Thank you!!! (I promise that I am not being snarky. I really do want to feel better. My family has been through sort of a lot since Thanksgiving, and the idea of a Mr. Trump presidency is not helping. I really would appreciate some compassion here.)
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MM- Sorry, I can't talk you off the ledge, but I'll hold your hand as we contemplate the fall.
Actually, I have spent the whole week figuring out how to commit suicide. I'd rather do that than have Trump and the Granny Killer, Ryan do it for me. I do depend on Soc. Security. I'm 75, a widow, and i've paid into the system my whole life. My savings were decimated during the 2008 crash so I have little to fall back on. I rely on Medicare for my dialysis. These GOP Monsters are another species of human (if they are human at all) with no compassion, no empathy-- and now lots of power.
And killing the Affordable Care Act also comes with a nice tax break for the 1%. What a coup! So they get to "kill" lots of birds with one stone. And they have enough votes to do it right away. I think that Congress' health policy should be suspended until they come up with a really viable alternative.
Trump supporters were for the most part a hugely uniformed and gullible lot who bought a lot of snake oil. Those who weren't angry racists, just wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of government to destroy it-- without any thought to how many of their lives are dependent on the very government they aimed to destroy. Sadly, they're taking the rest of us down with them.
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Oh, k&s, I am so sorry you have been feeling so sad and dismayed this past week. It's not how I would like your 2017 to start. :cuddle;
You know, to be fair, I DO have one sliver of hope. I don't know what Mr. Trump REALLY wants to see happen to Medicare and SS. We all know what Swamp Monsters Ryan and McConnell want, but it is very possible that Mr. Trump will not agree and will veto whatever legislation in this regard is placed in front of him. There are so many people who also depend on these programs, and most of them are from so-called red states. So, the pressure will be on Mr. Trump to keep his word and protect people's insurance to show that he really IS working for "the people", and I assume that means you and me.
Now, I don't know what this means, but...
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/trump-adviser-conway-says-no-one-will-lose-health-coverage-after-obamacare-repeal.html
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Now, I don't know what this means, but...
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/trump-adviser-conway-says-no-one-will-lose-health-coverage-after-obamacare-repeal.html
The Republican version of "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".
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Now, I don't know what this means, but...
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/trump-adviser-conway-says-no-one-will-lose-health-coverage-after-obamacare-repeal.html
The Republican version of "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".
I am now really starting to pray that Mr Trump will look after all those in need of healthcare, including all those who have become uninsured with the passage of Obamacare & who are suffering badly (whose stories I have heard quite painfully over the years & still do).
Mr Trump has called for Big Pharmas to stop ripping off the government with their exorbitant ever increasing cost of drugs recently - I think that is a positive sign of his intentions.
:pray;
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Who has become uninsured due to Obamacare? On the contrary, enrollment and re-enrollment has hit new highs as people are beginning to panic that Paul Ryan and the other swamp monsters will repeal the ACA without offering a replacement plan.
It is true that premiums in some states have gone up, but that is because those states refused to cooperate and set up their own exchange. The idea was that the "power" would be with the individual states, that each state would set up its own exchange (market), and not have to be governed by the Feds. But those red states who were bound and determined to go against Obama refused to do this. The ACA didn't set penalties high enough for individual non-compliance, and the insurance companies didn't set their premiums high enough. They saw that younger, healthier people weren't signing up and that more and more sick people did, so their profits weren't high enough for their stockholders.
I would welcome drug pricing controls, although Mr. Trump has yet to explain what he will do. It was the Republicans under Bush who agreed not to negotiate with Big Pharma over drugs covered by Medicare. If Trump can successfully go against the Republican controlled Congress to change this, we will all be delighted.
Perhaps Mr. Trump could investigate the Russian health care system and get some advice from Mr. Putin. I imagine the Russians have a particular expertise in the workings of the urinary tract.
Athena, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and to the right to express it. But once again, you do not live here and you do not have to suffer the consequences, so I have a very hard time giving your opinions any credence at all because they are couched in unsubstantiated stories and sweeping generalizations. I've pretty much given up hoping that you will ever any of my directly put queries. Mr. Trumps "intentions" are questionable and are undermined by his already revealed difficulty working with Congress. Do you know anything about Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan and what THEIR intentions are?
If the ACA can be amended so that it works better, I'd be all for it. But I and everyone on here at IHD have a pre-existing condition, and our care is expensive. So when Congress starts rabbiting on about changing Medicare and repealing the ACA, we get scared. Can you empathize with that at all? This might be a big game to you, but to us, it is not.
Again I will ask you: where do you live and how is your personal health care paid for? Can you at least answer that one question as this is the third time I've asked you! Thank you!
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MM- Sorry, I can't talk you off the ledge, but I'll hold your hand as we contemplate the fall.
Actually, I have spent the whole week figuring out how to commit suicide. I'd rather do that than have Trump and the Granny Killer, Ryan do it for me. I do depend on Soc. Security. I'm 75, a widow, and i've paid into the system my whole life. My savings were decimated during the 2008 crash so I have little to fall back on. I rely on Medicare for my dialysis. These GOP Monsters are another species of human (if they are human at all) with no compassion, no empathy-- and now lots of power.
And killing the Affordable Care Act also comes with a nice tax break for the 1%. What a coup! So they get to "kill" lots of birds with one stone. And they have enough votes to do it right away. I think that Congress' health policy should be suspended until they come up with a really viable alternative.
Trump supporters were for the most part a hugely uniformed and gullible lot who bought a lot of snake oil. Those who weren't angry racists, just wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of government to destroy it-- without any thought to how many of their lives are dependent on the very government they aimed to destroy. Sadly, they're taking the rest of us down with them.
Dear K&S I send you over the cyber a big hug, keep my fingers crossed for you and I do hope things work out alright...
Please take care and best wishes from Kristina :cuddle;
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An astrologer in a local paper has predicted that Donald Trump will be a great President & his cabinet the best the country has experienced in years! Personally, I have always felt this will be the case & cannot wait for the 20th January. (Yes, I'm well aware of the perils of reading newspaper astrologists, btw :))
I have a hard time with thinking that something that is so reminiscent of Nazi Germany can be considered "the best the country has experienced in years!" Sounds more like a "Horror-scope" to me....
KarenInWA
Exactly my fears as well ... and let's hope it won't be as bad as we fear ... :'(
Today I heard in the early morning radio-news that Mr. Trump has responded to the political concerns a Congressman has about a Trump-Presidency, that this Congressman is "all talk" and should "shut up". This so shocked me that I am honestly not sure anymore whether I really heard it ... or not ?
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Exactly my fears as well ... and let's hope it won't be as bad as we fear ... :'(
Today I heard in the early morning radio-news that Mr. Trump has responded to the political concerns a Congressman has about a Trump-Presidency, that this Congressman is "all talk" and should "shut up". This so shocked me that I am honestly not sure anymore whether I really heard it ... or not ?
What is the appropriate response to a congressional representative of the people who declares that the duly elected president is not a "legitimate president"?
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... I have just noticed that I did hear it after all in the radio-news this morning and I have found an article explaining this and it looks really bad:
... " Congressman John Lewis, America’s civil right’s icon, spoke out about what most Democrats and independents likely believe. Donald Trump’s legitimacy as President of the United States is in questions.
Civil Rights icon Congressman John Lewis: Trump an illegitimate president
John Lewis says Donald Trump isn’t a legitimate president, and Trump hits back hard
President-elect Donald Trump launched a Twitter attack against civil right icon, John Lewis, after the Georgia congressman called Trump's win "illegitimate" due to Russian interference with U.S. elections. (Reuters)
For the first time, a leading Democrat has called into question Donald Trump's legitimacy as president.
Rep. John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia and civil-rights icon, told NBC's Chuck Todd in an interview for Sunday's "Meet the Press" that he believes Russia's alleged hacking aimed at helping Trump in the 2016 race makes Trump an illegitimate president.
Asked whether he would forge a relationship with President-elect Trump, Lewis said, "It's going to be very difficult. I don't see this president-elect as a legitimate president."
He added: "I think the Russians participated in helping this man get elected, and they helped destroy the candidacy of Hillary Clinton." Lewis called it a "conspiracy" and added: "That's not right. That's not fair. That's not the open democratic process."
Lewis added that he won't attend Trump's inauguration, which he said is unprecedented in his 30-year congressional career.
Update: Trump hit back at Lewis on Saturday morning, saying Lewis should instead focus on his Atlanta district.
Congressman John Lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and falling apart (not to......
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 14, 2017
mention crime infested) rather than falsely complaining about the election results. All talk, talk, talk - no action or results. Sad!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 14, 2017
Lewis's comments come from a particularly powerful source: A black member of Congress and major civil-rights figure. While Lewis didn't cite allegations of bigotry and racism made against Trump, the whole thing can't help but hearken back to Trump's own questioning of the legitimacy of his predecessor, Barack Obama. For years, Trump raised questions about whether Obama was born in the United States and thus could serve legitimately as president. Obama eventually produced a birth certificate in 2012, but Trump only acknowledged Obama was born in the United States a few months ago.
Members of the Congressional Black Caucus were particularly incensed by Trump's long-running questioning of the legitimacy of the first black president, saying it amounted to bigotry and a racial dog-whistle. After Trump finally admitted Obama was born in the United States in September 2016, members of the CBC held a press conference to denounce Trump.
At the time, Lewis urged Trump to seek forgiveness.
Lewis's words are sure to reverberate in Washington. The intelligence community has said Russia did indeed attempt to assist Trump in the 2016 election. But there's no real way of knowing whether it was decisive when it comes to putting Trump over the top.
Most prominent Democrats have been reluctant to push the idea that Russia won the race for Trump and directly call into question his legitimacy, though Clinton and President Obama have suggested it made a difference -- if not the difference.
Clinton last month named Russia's hacking alongside FBI Director James Comey's late announcements about her email server investigation as the "unprecedented factors that I don’t think we can ignore" when it came to her loss.
Obama has said he thought Russia had some impact, though he couldn't be sure whether it tipped the scales. "Elections can always turn out differently,” he told NPR. “You never know which factors are going to make a difference. But I have no doubt that it had some impact, just based on the coverage.”
About the only other major political figure prior to Lewis who has outright questioned Trump's legitimacy is former Mexican president Vicente Fox, who tangled with Trump over latter's stated plan to have Mexico pay for his U.S.-Mexico border wall."
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What is the appropriate response to a congressional representative of the people who declares that the duly elected president is not a "legitimate president"?
Whatever happened to Trump's "people" who found so much information "that you wouldn't believe" that supposedly substantiated Trump's claim that Barack Obama wasn't born in the US? Simon Dog, I wouldn't go there if I were you. Enjoy the irony.
Here's the appropriate response that Mr. Trump should make"
"I hereby apologize to President Barack Obama, to his family and to the American people for my role in attempting to delegitimize the president and in popularizing the birther movement. I deeply regret my role in dividing this country, and I will work hard to help America bridge that divide.
I hereby declare that I will order my administration to fully investigate any and all influence that Vladimir Putin had on the General Election and to make public their findings. I will be cooperative with all eleven agencies that comprise our intelligence community. I will cooperate with Congress in this regard.
I will do what it takes to address the concerns of the 65% of Americans who do not approve of my transition into the White House.
I will immediately remove Gen. Flynn from my list of nominees as I recognize that he had no business speaking to the Russian Ambassador on the day that President Obama placed sanctions on Russia. I will memorize and uphold the Logan Act.
I will stay off Twitter and will try to concentrate on my job.
I will work with you, Congressman Lewis, to revisit the changes to the Voting Rights Act so that we can make sure that Americans, regardless of race or ethnicity, should be able to vote more easily, not with more difficulty. I will work with you to get rid of gerrymandering."
Trump has all the best words. Maybe he can string them together to make some coherent sentences like the ones mentioned above.
Trump was voted in with the smallest number of votes in history. His opponent had more votes. There are many questions about his financial ties to Russia and what those ties might mean for this country's energy policy, our foreign policy and our trade policy, and many of those questions could be answered if he were to release his tax returns.
President Obama answered questions about his birthright by producing his birth certificate. Trump can answer questions about his legitimacy by releasing his tax returns at the very least. It's easy, and it would be one part of an "appropriate response."
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Kristina, if you were to ask people who, in the end, voted for Trump, they would probably tell you that they did not want to vote for Clinton because she was "untrustworthy", blah blah blah.
So, what happened was that the Russians hacked into both the Republican and the Democratic computers, but Putin decided that he would circulate Hillary Clinton's campaigns emails, not those of the Republicans.
This fed into the whole narrative of Clinton being somehow sneaky and untrustworthy.
The abovementioned voters would most likely not discuss policy disputes, rather, they would say that Clinton was "dishonest", which is a FEELING and a PERCEPTION rather than an actual policy.
It is easy to mold people's "perceptions" and "feelings", and that's exactly what the Russians aimed to do, and they succeeded. It is no secret. What was gained by leaking the emails of Clinton's campaign manager? Nothing, because there was no policy news or scandals contained within them. But on the other hand, there was everything to be gained, because when people heard the words "leaked emails" and "Hillary Clinton" contained in one sentence, those perceptions of "secrecy" and "dishonesty" only grow.
These perceptions and feelings are impossible to quantify, so there will never be any hard proof that Russian hacking either did or didn't sway the final result of the election.
So, there was Russian hacking going on, there was possibly illegal communications between a particular Trump supporter (and maybe more) and the Russian Ambassador, AND there was a refusal by Donald Trump to release his tax returns. But no...all anyone cared about was Hillary Clinton's emails that congress has been investigating for well over a year and spent god knows how much of our taxpayers' money on.
Of course, the real problem comes when Trump is impeached because then we'd get Mike Pence as president. So, it's really a choice between crazy and evil. Talk about rocks and hard places!
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Kristina, if you were to ask people who, in the end, voted for Trump, they would probably tell you that they did not want to vote for Clinton because she was "untrustworthy", blah blah blah.
So, what happened was that the Russians hacked into both the Republican and the Democratic computers, but Putin decided that he would circulate Hillary Clinton's campaigns emails, not those of the Republicans.
This fed into the whole narrative of Clinton being somehow sneaky and untrustworthy.
The abovementioned voters would most likely not discuss policy disputes, rather, they would say that Clinton was "dishonest", which is a FEELING and a PERCEPTION rather than an actual policy.
It is easy to mold people's "perceptions" and "feelings", and that's exactly what the Russians aimed to do, and they succeeded. It is no secret. What was gained by leaking the emails of Clinton's campaign manager? Nothing, because there was no policy news or scandals contained within them. But on the other hand, there was everything to be gained, because when people heard the words "leaked emails" and "Hillary Clinton" contained in one sentence, those perceptions of "secrecy" and "dishonesty" only grow.
These perceptions and feelings are impossible to quantify, so there will never be any hard proof that Russian hacking either did or didn't sway the final result of the election.
So, there was Russian hacking going on, there was possibly illegal communications between a particular Trump supporter (and maybe more) and the Russian Ambassador, AND there was a refusal by Donald Trump to release his tax returns. But no...all anyone cared about was Hillary Clinton's emails that congress has been investigating for well over a year and spent god knows how much of our taxpayers' money on.
Of course, the real problem comes when Trump is impeached because then we'd get Mike Pence as president. So, it's really a choice between crazy and evil. Talk about rocks and hard places!
Dear MooseMom many thanks for your kind explanation ... and I can fully understand your distress ... and I wish to know what to say but words fail me :'(
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That's alright, Kristina! I'm pouring myself a nice peaty Islay scotch. :2thumbsup;
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Dear MooseMom I do understand :'( ... and ... it is so very sad :'( ... and ... words still fail me ... :'(
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A bit oblique to the topic, but....
The Trump Presidency will give us a chance to see if the various large donors to the Clinton Foundation were doing it because they wanted to support the good works of the foundation or if it was an attempt to purchase access/influence.
If it was the former, donations will continue to come in from these entities in the same large amounts. If the donations do not continue on the past pattern, it would be suggestive on an attempt to buy influence.
Trump is demonstrating one thing - what really matters in politics is (a) Winning, and (b) Not getting indicted. He succeeded at both. Clinton only succeeded at the later. That stuff like "it not whether you win or lose but how you play the game that counts" gets left behind on the grade school yard.
But no...all anyone cared about was Hillary Clinton's emails that congress has been investigating for well over a year and spent god knows how much of our taxpayers' money on.
Nobody really cared about dirt on either side (neither had a shortage). Complaints about the other sides dirt were a proxy for either "I don't believe the the conservative pro-market anti-tax agenda" or "I don't believe in the progressive redistributionist agenda". If the dirt was on the other side, most people would simply switch which dirt they pretended was important.
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A bit oblique to the topic, but....
The Trump Presidency will give us a chance to see if the various large donors to the Clinton Foundation were doing it because they wanted to support the good works of the foundation or if it was an attempt to purchase access/influence.
If it was the former, donations will continue to come in from these entities in the same large amounts. If the donations do not continue on the past pattern, it would be suggestive on an attempt to buy influence.
No one is going to care. All attention will be on Trump and Congress and whether or not they're going to gut Medicare and Social security. The "investigation" into the Clinton Foundation achieved the desired effect, i.e., to divert attention toward Clinton's "corruption" and away from Trump's lack of any coherent policy. It worked.
That stuff like "it not whether you win or lose but how you play the game that counts" gets left behind on the grade school yard.
Not according to the Constitution and The Logan Act.
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Not according to the Constitution and The Logan Act.
That's why I said there are two things that matter - winning and not getting indicted.
No one is going to care.
Winner winner chicken dinner. No one cares about the scandals/sleaze on either side, except when using them to make the other side look bad. The Republicans that deplore the handling of Bengazi would be defending it if one of their people said "what does it matter" regarding a few people getting killed.
whether or not they're going to gut Medicare and Social security.
The real eyes are on the Obamacare replacement. Looks like the solution is allowing insurance that doesn't pay out except for a few specific conditions after a huge deductible.
Neither party can change the basic fact - to give to someone you have to take from someone else. Obamacare concentrated much of the "take" on persons who pay for their own insurance without a government subsidy, rather than spreading it around to everyone (though funding of the subsidy partially did that). What was lacking from the proponents was an honest discussion of who the losers are - as in "you middle class healthy people who pay your own way will have some of your income transferred to less wealthy and less healthy people, and we will do it by force, not by "asking" you to contribute".
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http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-woman-denied-insurance-coverage-for-heart-10856877.php?t=296987fbda438d9cbb&cmpid=fb-premium
I am originally from Houston, and one of my childhood friends knows this woman. I am middle class and pay my own way, and I am happy for my tax dollars to go to helping a fellow American get the transplant she needs instead of being refused by a profit making corporation. I do not feel "forced".
Healthy people get sick, and they have accidents. My neighbor was in a terrible motorcycling accident 3 month ago. He is now on dialysis because his kidneys are lacerated (he may be off D by now), and he has shattered at least 10 bones. I don't know if he has health insurance, but if he does not, then who do you think will be "forced" to pay his costs? You and I.
How is this "solution" to health care you mention going to work? "Looks like the solution is allowing insurance that doesn't pay out except for a few specific conditions after a huge deductible"...so, what happens? Are people going to think to themselves, "I might get MS, so I will buy a policy that doesn't pay for anything but MS."? Who has proposed this? I'd like to find out more, or maybe I've just got the wrong end of the stick.
Taxation is all about being forced to give so that money can be handed to someone else. That is what elections are for, for electing people who will spend your forcibly paid money in the way that you would like. I'd prefer for my forcibly paid money to go to my fellow Americans to ensure their access to health care than to subsidize Israeli defense systems while they are illegally still building settlements on occupied territory.
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I do not feel "forced".
It does not matter how you "feel" - the government will use whatever level of force, including guns, that is necessary to extract payment from you.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a valid question, but it confuses the issue to call it anything other than a forced taking.
Are people going to think to themselves, "I might get MS, so I will buy a policy that doesn't pay for anything but MS."? Who has proposed this? I'd like to find out more, or maybe I've just got the wrong end of the stick.
More like "I will accept the fact that I will pay the first $10,000 per year out of pocket and have coverage for amounts above that in return for a lower premium" and "I'll accept a more restrictive drug formulary in return for a lower premium".
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Not to worry. The President Elect has now said everyone will have coverage with lower deductibles and premiums. And they will be covered beautifully. He also said no cuts to medicare. Only thing missing is the details of how this will come about. If healthcare funding is cut by a repeal bill, its hard to figure out how this could happen. It does not sound like he and the GOP are on the same path. I wonder what covered beautifully means?
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I'll stick with carbs for a while.
A flaw in the Obamacare is that only some people pay for these new extras. Middle class people who work don't (except through the subsidies), since they are still in the employer pools of people healthy enough to work sold to companies that minimizes self-selection bias. People who are on medicaid or get large subsidies don't. The people who get hammered are those who buy unsubsidized polices on the exchanges where those unable to work because of illness, and population with a large self-selection bias will flee.
Ryan mentioned creating an high risk pool, and subsidizing that directly - with the payment spread across the taxpayer base rather than the unfortunate few who buy on the exchanges without a subsidy.
Obamacare has changed the game - it is going to be very difficult to take away pre-existing condition insurance, no payment cap or up to age 26 for offspring. Too many oxen will get gored if they do that.
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If the ACA can be amended so that it works better, I'd be all for it. But I and everyone on here at IHD have a pre-existing condition, and our care is expensive. So when Congress starts rabbiting on about changing Medicare and repealing the ACA, we get scared. Can you empathize with that at all? This might be a big game to you, but to us, it is not.
Again I will ask you: where do you live and how is your personal health care paid for? Can you at least answer that one question as this is the third time I've asked you! Thank you!
Moosemum, I am not obligated to divulge any personal details on the internet so please desist from demanding anyone to do so. And what's with the KGB style of interrogation, anyway? Mind your manners. No one needs to answer any question you ask on this forum. Thank you!
And stop trying to accuse any fellow kidney patient of seeing healthcare as a big game. That is a joke and you go too far in your outlandish comments. Mind your manners.
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Moosemum, I am not obligated to divulge any personal details on the internet so please desist from demanding anyone to do so. And what's with the KGB style of interrogation, anyway? Mind your manners. No one needs to answer any question you ask on this forum. Thank you!
And stop trying to accuse any fellow kidney patient of seeing healthcare as a big game. That is a joke and you go too far in your outlandish comments. Mind your manners.
AHA!!! And there we have it at last! You don't answer any of my questions because you CAN'T! You can't defend one single, solitary thing you've said in this entire discussion, so instead you go all pc and tell me to "mind my manners". That's so Trumpian, it's fantastic!!
Where have I accused any of your fellow kidney patients of seeing healthcare as a big game? Where have I even used the word "game" in any post on this thread? Are you mistaking me for another IHD poster, perhaps? Oh, I apologize. I've asked you a question that you can't answer. Is that a KGB tactic? Let's ask Trump! He'll know!! He can ask our new president Vladdy Putin!
Since you live in some mystery country that is not the US, you probably don't understand that healthcare IS seen as a big game by those who profit from it. Come to think of it, you may be right. Perhaps we American kidney patients DO see it as a big game in which we are perpetually the big losers.
Your post has illustrated intellectual dishonesty at its finest. When you can't answer or don't want to answer, you deflect and insult. Just like your hero, Mr. Trump.
"You know nothing, Jon Snow."
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Where have I even used the word "game" in any post on this thread?
"Game" has many meanings. In fact, the economics of medicine, insurance and pricing are a subject well suited to analysis by the branch of science known as "Game Theory".
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Moosemum, I am not obligated to divulge any personal details on the internet so please desist from demanding anyone to do so. And what's with the KGB style of interrogation, anyway? Mind your manners. No one needs to answer any question you ask on this forum. Thank you!
And stop trying to accuse any fellow kidney patient of seeing healthcare as a big game. That is a joke and you go too far in your outlandish comments. Mind your manners.
AHA!!! And there we have it at last! You don't answer any of my questions because you CAN'T! You can't defend one single, solitary thing you've said in this entire discussion, so instead you go all pc and tell me to "mind my manners". That's so Trumpian, it's fantastic!!
Where have I accused any of your fellow kidney patients of seeing healthcare as a big game? Where have I even used the word "game" in any post on this thread? Are you mistaking me for another IHD poster, perhaps? Oh, I apologize. I've asked you a question that you can't answer. Is that a KGB tactic? Let's ask Trump! He'll know!! He can ask our new president Vladdy Putin!
Since you live in some mystery country that is not the US, you probably don't understand that healthcare IS seen as a big game by those who profit from it. Come to think of it, you may be right. Perhaps we American kidney patients DO see it as a big game in which we are perpetually the big losers.
Your post has illustrated intellectual dishonesty at its finest. When you can't answer or don't want to answer, you deflect and insult. Just like your hero, Mr. Trump.
Wow Moosemum, I'm speechless at this. Be my guest in thinking that someone is "intellectually dishonest" for protecting their privacy under cyber interrogation. The compliment about sounding Trumpian, trumps all insults! I can't thank you enough for this compliment! :2thumbsup;
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If the ACA can be amended so that it works better, I'd be all for it. But I and everyone on here at IHD have a pre-existing condition, and our care is expensive. So when Congress starts rabbiting on about changing Medicare and repealing the ACA, we get scared. Can you empathize with that at all? This might be a big game to you, but to us, it is not.
Again I will ask you: where do you live and how is your personal health care paid for? Can you at least answer that one question as this is the third time I've asked you! Thank you!
Moosemum, I am not obligated to divulge any personal details on the internet so please desist from demanding anyone to do so. And what's with the KGB style of interrogation, anyway? Mind your manners. No one needs to answer any question you ask on this forum. Thank you!
And stop trying to accuse any fellow kidney patient of seeing healthcare as a big game. That is a joke and you go too far in your outlandish comments. Mind your manners.
Crikey Athena !!! What a statement !!!
... Nevertheless, I still would like to know, what makes you so sure about "political things" and especially about a successful Donald-Trump-Presidency? How can you know? You seem to be so very certain & assured and I have been wondering if you could have some insider-connections, but since you are obviously not living in America (or are you?), that seems to be very unlikely ... ? I am getting very intrigued, where on earth you get your political certainty from and I would like to kindly ask you to share it with us please! Perhaps you could put our fears at rest? The reason for my own fears and for my asking is that because of my former studies in history I can see very clearly MooseMom's fears and I can also fully understand, where her fears come from, but that is only because in the past I have been studying a bit of history, especially the "exploitation" of political PR in the early 20th century with the help of Radio, Cinema & newspapers etc. and resulting events between 1933-1945...
I very much thank you for your answers and send you my kind regards from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Two predictions made in this discussion have already come true.
1. Trump has already decided he will not be attending the WHCD.
2. Trump is just not that into governing.
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aww I missed this thread when it was started. How about new predictions - who will be the first Trump Cabinet Secretary to resign/forced out?
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aww I missed this thread when it was started. How about new predictions - who will be the first Trump Cabinet Secretary to resign/forced out?
My prediction is our Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. His connection with the Cyprus Bank that Manafort used to launder Russian funds will be why.
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Ooooh, that's a good guess, Bill. Trump is blathering right now about something or another and said that "Wilbur" is well known as just "Wilbur" among his friends on Wall Street. Hmmmmm. I'm just as concerned about his friends in Russia.
Trump is now referring to Mar al Lago as the "Summer White House" and has said that he will be taking China's President there next week. Taxpayers pay for the upkeep of The White House which is fair enough as it is "the people's house". Anyone care to predict when the Summer White House will be open for tours? Spicy said it's "phenomenal".
How much is it costing us to send Trump and his entourage and security detail et al to The Summer White House every damn weekend?
What if the Obamas had a "Chicago White House"? Can you imagine the Republican meltdown?
It's just all rubbishy, really.
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Well, well, MM strikes again. You MUST answer all of her questions, whether you want to or not. And, if you don't then you get called all kinds of names, the only good one being, you are a Trump Lover. And Kristina, I am stunned at your post. I have never thought of you talking like that to any one EVER!!! Guess MM's remarks and attempts at bullying are rubbing off on you. The guys here, never get personal or insulting, so I dont know why you think you can or should be rude to any one MM. So clean up your act and MIND YOUR MANNERS MM.
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When have I ever called anyone a "Trump Lover"? I have better words than that. LOL!
MM Strikes Again!! You betcha!
OK, Jean. I'll play the bully role. Show us one quote of mine on this thread where I called someone a "name".
And since I'm a big meanie, I'm sure you're expecting a question, so here's one. Name three things that Trump has done so far that has made you feel proud and secure. Maybe you can help me to feel better about Trump. Here is your chance.
Oh, one last thing. You can fuss at me all you want, but you have no business going after Kristina. She has an historical researcher's body of knowledge that leads her to ask the questions she asked. She doesn't need anyone's influence to guide her queries, least of all mine. So, you can put down the pitchfork you've aimed at her. I'm the nasty woman here, not Kristina.
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I think ( oh, am I allowed to think) Sure I am, this is America. No, I do not expect a question from you, it is totally due to a lack of interest. Nothing will make you feel better about Trump, and oh, you forgot to mention last years taxes. Slipping kiddo. I did not and would not ever, ever "go after" Kristina. Dont even make that up.GO after Kristina? Aim a pitchfork at her? No, not now or not ever. I was one of the first people to welcome her back after she had left the group for awhile, and you can look that up also. As a matter of fact, in 10 years I have never picked on or made any one mad on IHD. This program was designed for all of us to get along, not demand answers or insist upon quotes, one of your favorite things to do. I try not to even look at most of your posts, even tho I am fairly sure many of them are accurate, since, evidently you know everything.
The long and short of it is, you are in fact a bully, and those were your words, not mine. But dont you now or ever dare to insult me by saying I "went after" some one. I did not.
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Jean, I apologize for having a go at you for having a go at Kristina. I obviously misinterpreted the intent of your previous post. I am sorry.
However, I don't understand why, despite your stated lack of interest, you've suddenly popped up in this discussion for no apparent reason other than to call me a bully.
But since you ARE here, do you have any opinions on what has so far transpired during this young presidency? I'm not demanding answers from you, but I am interested in your opinion. What do you think the President will do about Health Care? Do you think he will work with moderate Republicans and Democrats to fix the ACA? How do you think he will handle the Freedom Caucus in his upcoming budget discussions with Congress?
Again, no demand for answers. Just interested in your viewpoint.
I ask questions precisely because I DON'T know everything. But if you want to have a go at me, that's OK! I really don't mind.
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How much is it costing us to send Trump and his entourage and security detail et al to The Summer White House every damn weekend?
3 Million a pop.
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If you just sit back and watch Comrade Trump spin you will find it quite amusing. Like Trump so upset when a reported asked about Flynn during a executive order signing. Didn't answer stormed out leaving with out signing the orders and Pence had to grab them and follow Trump out of the room. But combine his Russian Problems with the fact that the Republican House is so schizophrenic that it will be unable to pass any meaningful legislation except for the ones like internet privacy they just made a thing of the past, or the net neutrality that they are going to can next. Some time in the future some one is going to turn this administration into a comedy movie. Come to think of it maybe they already did.
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He looked awful pale last night. I think all this stuff is getting to him.
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3 Million a pop.
He is also destroying the livleyhood of small airport operator and flight instructors in the area who are subject to a "VIP closed airspace" notice to airmen when Trump is in the area.
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Well, well, MM strikes again. You MUST answer all of her questions, whether you want to or not. And, if you don't then you get called all kinds of names, the only good one being, you are a Trump Lover. And Kristina, I am stunned at your post. I have never thought of you talking like that to any one EVER!!! Guess MM's remarks and attempts at bullying are rubbing off on you. The guys here, never get personal or insulting, so I dont know why you think you can or should be rude to any one MM. So clean up your act and MIND YOUR MANNERS MM.
Hello Jean,
I am very sorry if you feel hurt by my thoughts and I can assure you that MooseMom's comments did most certainly not "rub off" on me.
Of course, I can't speak for MooseMom, but my feeling is that MooseMom and I arrived independently at similar conclusions,
which are mainly based on our observations and experiences and in my case are the results of my political instincts and observations...
... and please believe me that I very much hope my political instincts are completely wrong in this case as I very much care for America !
... I am very sorry to have hurt your feelings and I send you my kind regards and please be assured that I wholeheartedly hope to be wrong in this case ...
... Only time will tell ...
Best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
P.S. (re-edit) ... I also wish to mention here, that my thoughts were mainly based on the fact that noone really knows how the new Presidency will turn out,
unless of course, one is an insider and I was desperately asking Athena whether she is an insider and could put my fears to rest ... ?
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Kristina, you have no need to apologize. You have done nothing wrong. You have your own thoughts and opinions, and I am sorry you were accused of not having independent brain function. LOL!
Your country and mine are headed into uncharted waters. As you know, I have a very heartfelt affection for the UK and hope that Brexit will eventually bring all of the benefits that British voters have hoped for.
I want to thank you for the good wishes that you have expressed for my own country. I know you are very aware of my own concerns and deep-seated fears, and I very much appreciate your recognition of my feelings instead of dismissing them. I do not apologize for having profound misgivings. I don't like feeling this way. I have made many pleas for reassurance, but none have been forthcoming.
I am pinning some hope on the possibility of President Trump keeping his promise to start rebuilding America's infrastructure. To be fair to President Trump, the problem lies with Congress. I really can't begin to predict what will happen here.
We are facing the real possibility of a government shutdown at the end of this month. This makes me nervous. I have no predictions in this regard, either.
Again, thank you, Kristina, for understanding the reasons why I am so nervous about this administration. Like you, I hope I am wrong and that my fears end up being unfounded. I know that these are early days and that some good things just might be around the corner. It's hard to predict.
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Okay, now, Kristina, I intended no insult of any kind to you. None. If you took it that way, I am sorry.
Hugs
Jean
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Brexit will eventually bring all of the benefits that British voters have hoped for.
The Brits decided they do not was free immigration between EU countries to cause their nation to become Muslim Majority.
I suspect Brexit would have lost if there were an option if preserving the economic trade freedoms without opening the borders was an option.
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Many thanks MooseMom and Jean for your kind thoughts, I do appreciate it very much.
... and you are right, MooseMom, our countries are headed into uncharted waters and no one knows the outcome and all we can hope for is as little confusion as is possible ...
Most interesting thought, Simon and it is very true that many people in the UK fear an overwhelming religious direction to slowly overtake ...
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Brexit will eventually bring all of the benefits that British voters have hoped for.
The Brits decided they do not was free immigration between EU countries to cause their nation to become Muslim Majority.
I suspect Brexit would have lost if there were an option if preserving the economic trade freedoms without opening the borders was an option.
Well, we must be clear about what we mean when we talk about "opening the borders". The real issue is the free movement of EU citizens, ie, the freedom of, say, French people or Italian people who want to live and work in the UK. That is a different issue than immigration from Muslim-majority countries. I don't think Brussels has a policy on how many non-EU immigrants a member nation is required to let in; I could very well be wrong about that, though! I do know that Brussels DOES have a policy about REFUGEES, though. Free movement within the EU in and of itself doesn't cause the UK to become a Muslim majority nation. People in the UK are worried about workers coming in from eastern Europe. I remember the kerfuffle over "Polish plumbers" well over a decade ago!
Just as it is hard to predict what President Trump can get done, it is even harder to predict what Theresa May will be able to negotiate. She's got 2 years.
With the French and German elections coming up, we live in a very unpredictable world, that's for sure! At least here on IHD, we have each other for some support since we all have somewhat uncertain futures! :grouphug;
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That is a different issue than immigration from Muslim-majority countries
Does the EU open the borders to legal resident non-citizens from other EU nations, or is EU nation citizenship required?
I remember the kerfuffle over "Polish plumbers" well over a decade ago
I suspect there is a good joke somewhere here :)
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That is a different issue than immigration from Muslim-majority countries
Does the EU open the borders to legal resident non-citizens from other EU nations, or is EU nation citizenship required?
I remember the kerfuffle over "Polish plumbers" well over a decade ago
I suspect there is a good joke somewhere here :)
Well, the UK is not a part of the Schengen area, but the Schengen area, I believe, addresses the issue of international travel but not the issue of employment and residency. So my short answer would be "I don't know, and that's a good question." When I lived in the UK, I was a legal resident but was not a UK citizen, so whenever we traveled to the Continent, I'd always have to get into the "Non-EU Citizen" line. (It also meant that I had to pay taxes but could not vote. Didn't we fight a war about that? lol) So, my guess would be "no", but I wouldn't bet on it.
No, there was no good joke in there. Seriously, a lot of people in the UK were very upset about the idea of this flood of workers coming from Poland due to the whole "free movement of people" EU mandate. "Polish plumbers" became the big bugbear. It was just so odd and random.
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"Polish plumbers" became the big bugbear. It was just so odd and random.
It is an interesting example, since here in the US plumbing is, more than any other trade, a protected profession with barriers to entry that cause it to command an hourly rate well above the skill and training level required.
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The one major problem facing England is many countries have a most favored trade status. One England is out of the EUC any concessions they try to negotiate othe countries such as USA would automatically get the same trade concessions.
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It is an interesting example, since here in the US plumbing is, more than any other trade, a protected profession with barriers to entry that cause it to command an hourly rate well above the skill and training level required.
More than being a longshoreman?
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More than being a longshoreman?
You got me there.
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I can't believe no one predicted Trump will lay hands on a mystical orb with the Saudi King.
I am really disappointed in our collective imagination.
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President Trump and the Pope were out fishing. The Pope's hat blew off. President Trump got out of the boat, walked on water to go pick it up. Walked on water back to the boat and handed the Pope his hat....
Headlines the next day:
"Trump Can't Swim"