I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: Bill Peckham on October 09, 2016, 11:49:22 AM
-
I’ve been back in Chicago for a week (haven’t been shot at once), something I keep hearing are people who preface any comment about the election with something along the line of: “there is no good choice” or “both are equally flawed, but I am reluctantly voting for …”
Have you ever talked to a person who is voting for Clinton without reservation? Now is your chance, ask me anything.
-
I voted for Clinton for her first term as Senator back when I lived in NY and I am proud and excited to vote for her for President!
I admire her experience, her levelheadedness, her lifelong commitment to public service, and her progressive perspective. As far as I am concerned, she is the only valid choice for 2016.
-
I am in a state that will always gives it electoral votes to the D so my vote does not matter.
But, I will be voting against Clinton, as I am opposed to the progressive/redistributionist, pro illegal immigrant, agenda. I feel that any immigration solution MUST balance the equation so that someone who CHOSE to move here illegally is not better off as a result of having chosen to break the law (ie, if they did not wish they had stayed in their native country, the consequences are not severe enough). That being said, I have sympathy for those moved here as minors who did not personally choose to break the law, so I would tend to cut them a lot of slack.
And yes, Trump is a slimy cheating douchebag pig. If he wins, I hope he is as fair and honest in his dealing with our trading partners as he has been with those he does business with :rofl;
-
I'm happy to be voting for Clinton and especially since this should be a year where Virginia matters. Hopefully her success will drive more women into politics, we can benefit from having more diversity in our leadership in all levels of government.
-
I cannot vote for Hillary. The dems are scared and so are the good ol' boys of the GOP.
If digging back 20 years and now 11 years on Trump is all they got? We only have to go back to every year in the last 5 years for Hillary and Bill. No thanks!
Make America Great Again! :cheer:
-
I happily voted for Bill twice and welcome the opportunity to pull the lever for Hillary. I feel the best way to tell if Trump is lying is watch his lips if they are moving he's lying.
sp mod Cas
-
I happily voted for bill twice and welcome the opportunity to pull the lever for Hillary. I feel the best wat to tell if trump is lying is watch his lips if they are moving he's lieing.
What standard do you apply to determine if Hillary is telling the truth?
-
Generally I read the dozens of fact checking organizations which not Hillary may exaggerate from time to time but Trump rarely if ever tells the truth. Besides lying whats worse is the sheer ignorance of his options. My personal favorite was when asked about first use policy on nuclear weapons he first said we should not do first use and then said well nothing's off the table.
sp mod Cas
-
I happily voted for bill twice and welcome the opportunity to pull the lever for Hillary. I feel the best wat to tell if trump is lying is watch his lips if they are moving he's lieing.
What standard do you apply to determine if Hillary is telling the truth?
The key is to use nonpartisan fact-checking sites. Hands down, Trump lies waaaaaaaaay more than Clinton. In fact, she is rated as the most honest of all the candidates running for president. But the Trump lie machine has done a good job at casting her as the liar. The Trump campaign sound bites appeal to those who don't want to spend time doing their homework.
-
The nearest campaign to trump was in 1934 Germany where Adolph Hitler ran to make Germany great again, he also scape goateed a bunch of minority's.
-
In fact, she is rated as the most honest of all the candidates running for president.
A distinction without a difference.
Clinton has a long history of sleazy public sector deals (unless you believe that she met with big donors to the Clnton foundation only as a matter of coincidence).
Trump has a long history of sleazy deals with suppliers and business partners, and made a lot of money off of screwing people over. Trump U and his comment about Atlantic City "I took a lot of money out of that city" come to mind.
We do not have a credible candidate with any real integrity.
-
It's Hillary for me ,too . I have already voted , don't need nasty Trump for anything , what an utterly disaster he is !!!
-
It's Hillary for me ,too . I have already voted , don't need nasty Trump for anything , what an utterly disaster he is !!!
I really feel like I should go vote early as well. I'm not looking forward to the lines on election day. I think there will be very good turnout, despite everyone claiming the choice between the two is not a good choice.
-
Requested my Vote by Mail ballot and have already mailed it in. In our last primary, I slid in at the last minute and there were at least 150 people in line ahead of me.
We are voting for our Senator as well so I also have a feeling that the combination of President and Senator, plus an interesting State Constitutional amendment might bring out the voters. Plus we have County elections as well, including our illustrious State's Attorney.
It's Hillary for me ,too . I have already voted , don't need nasty Trump for anything , what an utterly disaster he is !!!
I really feel like I should go vote early as well. I'm not looking forward to the lines on election day. I think there will be very good turnout, despite everyone claiming the choice between the two is not a good choice.
-
It is funny how Trump is a sexual slime ball but Bill Clinton isn't. :rofl; AND Hillary who is supposed to be and example for women discredits Bill's women and threatens them.
I really hope Trump wins. :cheer:
-
Bill Clinton isn't running for President. And if you look at how Trump is treating the women who have come forward, I would call it abusive. I dare you to have your husband cheat on you--and be so publicly shamed-- and not have feelings about the women he dallied with.
-
My husband did cheat on me and I divorced his ass. That is what Hillary should have done. Why is she a role model for young women? Staying with an abuser.... Even YOU should agree with that.
When Bill WAS president the thought was His private life has nothing with his Running our Country. What up?
Do you really think all these women accusing Trump all come out 25 days before the election? Why now? How much money do you think they got from the Clintons' for lying?
Michelle Obama deserves an Oscar for her performance yesterday. Like she has NEVER in her life heard such horrible treatment of women. She needs to listen to her RAP artists more closely. Bitch Whore on and on.... She is out of touch .... walk downtown and listen to the young men talk to each other and yell at women. It is disgusting. IT must be nice to have never heard these profanities.
-
All of these arguments about character are irrelevant.
Each individual is going to pick the kind of leadership they want (Republican keep what you earn or Democratic redistributioninst), and use the character flaws in the other party's candidate to provide additional justification for their position.
If Trump were a saint, the Democrats would still vote for Hillary; and no matter how clean the Democratic candidate, the republicans are going to vote for their candidate. Decades from now, it won't be the the character of the president that effects US society, but the SCOTUS picks.
-
You are right... I just hate liars and need to fight back.
-
You are right... I just hate liars and need to fight back.
In that case, you should hate both candidates with a passion.
-
I'm a Republican. So your theory sets the stage.
-
You are right... I just hate liars and need to fight back.
In that case, you should hate both candidates with a passion.
I'm undecided currently - I won't vote for either Trump or Hillary, but haven't yet decided if I'll vote for Gary Johnson or vote "None of the Above". I will be voting for state-wide and local offices, just not sure about the President. Haven't missed voting in a general election since I was able to vote!
-
It is funny how Trump is a sexual slime ball but Bill Clinton isn't. :rofl; AND Hillary who is supposed to be and example for women discredits Bill's women and threatens them.
I really hope Trump wins. :cheer:
Rerun, I have agreed so much with everything you have posted that I almost feel like we could be clones. How extraordinary that they are smearing him with so many sex scandals right now on the eve of the election. Where were they hiding till now? It's all perfectly timed to create maximum damage and I hope the American public don't fall for these politically motivated stunts.
Also note the hypocrisy of all those Hollywood stars who star in movies that use & abuse women as sex objects everyday but who are now so outraged by hearing some locker-room banter from Trump 11 years ago. What hypocrisy!
If I could vote, I'd be voting for Trump! Many of us on the outside are hoping he can win. He stands for a departure from the madness and idiocy of open borders and mass illegal immigration as well as the redistribution of jobs and industry to the Third World at your country's expense & the rest of the developed world.
-
Trumps chances of winning are closing on zero by the minute, he invited anyone to step forward who he abused, well guess they did. Even with out the tape he was sliding in the polls. Every one hates Bill but during hid administration the middle class made ncome gains and the country as a whole did well then came along Bush the Lesser who wrecked the economy, gave huge tax cuts to the rich and started the Great Recession which Obama inherited and slowly dug us of dispite a obstructionist republican congress. I have a tee shirt that sums up my feelings " If you are old and eating cat food out of a can, thank a republican!"
-
Regardless of whether you believe the women who have come forward, young girls and young women who are assaulted today and in the future may be afraid to speak up because they fear being disbelieved and treated similarly. It's hard enough reporting it as it is.
As for Hillary leaving Bill, where's the call for Melania to leave The Orange One? It's pure arrogance to say someone should leave a marriage. Whatever happens within a marriage is between the two parties involved.
-
Regardless of whether you believe the women who have come forward, young girls and young women who are assaulted today and in the future may be afraid to speak up because they fear being disbelieved and treated similarly. It's hard enough reporting it as it is.
Note that Hillary posted "you have a right to be believed" on her web site regarding allegations of sexual assault against men.
Funny thing .... she took this statement down once someone make an accusation against her husband.
-
But it does still say you have a right to be heard.
Everyone is entitled to due process, at least in the America I live in. Shaming women makes it harder for victims to step up.
-
Everyone is entitled to due process, at least in the America I live in. Shaming women makes it harder for victims to step up.
Is it "due process" to shame the accused man with newspaper stories, while shielding the woman's name from publication, prior to any conviction or plea deal?
I'm all for publishing either all info, or no named until after a conviction - but the current standard assumes guilt on the part of the accused and innocence on the part of the accuser.
-
There is not much point in arguing in a board like this. Not that I am denigrating you Liberals, I just can not understand your way of thinking. Is Donald Trump an Angel. Oh, hell no. Is Hillary Clinton an angel? Now that is seriously bad. I have never missed voting but this year is tempting. She wants to bring 65,000 refugees in to America. Admirable, but, who is going to support them? How many of you are willing to take one family in and feed and clothe and house them. You surely can not be thinking, oh, well, the government will support them. NO, they won't we are BROKE!!!! Obama took care of that. Nothing more to say, except " It's Trump all the way".
-
Everyone I talk to is still for Trump. They see through the sham of the Dems.
They had to go pretty low considering it is the Pot calling the kettle black.
-
I can't lay the National Debt soly on Obummer. It is, or has been, a problem with EVERY President since Johnson. It really isn't the President either, he is just a figurehead. The real problem is Congress and the Senate. They are the ones that ultimately vote for spending every little thing they please.
I am voting Trump because I want to seriously upset the apple cart. No more of the same O same O and all the Politician, which I call 'The Ruling Elite' getting richer at public expense.
One and Done! I propose to become a new National Matto. One term then get someone new. I don't care which party the new guy is from, vote OUT the old timer that has made a career of being in office. The amount of salary plus benefits these guys are making is absolutely rediculous. We will be stuck paying that for a number of years, but they will eventually die off, saving us more than just a few million annually. And if the 'One and Done' sticks, NO ONE will ever be able to claim that lifetime retirement and benefits again!
This isn't going to fix things over night, but it is a start of a new beginning. We owe this to ourselves to get rid of these leaches on society. And start taking our Country back.
I am not a Democrat, nor am I a Republican. I am somewhere in the middle. Just a normal soul with a little common sense.
I approve this message.
Now that I've spelled this out I think I'll copy and paste it to FB, see how far it gets. So many people don't give a care it may bot get far.
-
I approve your message too. Usually, I am quite eloquent and write for a devoted few. However on this post, I freeze up. Don't know why. At any rate, "Make America Great Again" I dont give a crap where the man has put his "little" hands ( now how stupid is that?) I care that he is first and foremost, a genius and my womans intuition tells me he will "Make America Great Again". Hey, it is as good a reason to vote for him as many of your reasons to vote for Hillary.
-
Either side can come up with completely valid, 100% defensible, reasons why it is morally unacceptable to vote for the other side - which leave this a battle of governing philosophies, not character. Character arguments are offered to augment, rather than formulate, voter's positions.
As to Obamacare, it is failing because it uses the standard govt trick of "everyone will support a tax someone else pays".
- Covering people with pre-existing conditions (like ours) will cost a lot of extra $$. It's like selling fire insurance on a burning building.
- That money will have to be taken from someone else either by increasing the price of something they feel they have to buy, or by the threat of government violence against them.
- You could make everyone pay via a income tax surcharge, or shift all that cost to those parties in the exchanges so that most people will think "I'm not in the exchange, that means someone else will pay to cover the sick people rather than me, this is good". The problem is the pool of payers is just too small to make up the difference that way without something breaking.
-
Rerun, I have agreed so much with everything you have posted that I almost feel like we could be clones. How extraordinary that they are smearing him with so many sex scandals right now on the eve of the election. Where were they hiding till now? It's all perfectly timed to create maximum damage and I hope the American public don't fall for these politically motivated stunts.
Also note the hypocrisy of all those Hollywood stars who star in movies that use & abuse women as sex objects everyday but who are now so outraged by hearing some locker-room banter from Trump 11 years ago. What hypocrisy!
If I could vote, I'd be voting for Trump! Many of us on the outside are hoping he can win. He stands for a departure from the madness and idiocy of open borders and mass illegal immigration as well as the redistribution of jobs and industry to the Third World at your country's expense & the rest of the developed world.
Athena - I have to say, you are the first non-American I have met or seen say that people everywhere want the US to vote for Trump. I had dinner with Dr. John Agar earlier this year when he was in Seattle for a Home Dialysis conference. He usually flies over here once or twice a year, but he has said if Trump is elected, he most likely will not fly out here again (he's from your homeland, out near Melbourne. He is a well-known Home Dialysis dr and advocate) Our very own RichardMEL likes to watch the Presidential debates for sport, and is very glad to not be an American because Trump and the people who follow him (some of them are quite scary) are great entertainment - in a slapstick OMG did he just SAY/DO that??? kind of way.
And then there's this story, from The Arizona Republic - a conservative newspaper in a very Red State. For the first time in 150 years, they are not endorsing the Republican candidate for President. Trump followers responded with extreme hate and threats of violence. If Trump wins, what will become the MO of the USA? What happens if Trump loses? Will Blue states/areas be the safe refuge for the sane people who don't want to be caught up in all the hate and vitriol? I know we have all seen what happens with the riots in various cities over BLM and other issues. When will it all stop???
Here is the link to the AZ article.... http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/2016/10/16/publisher-response-to-threats-after-republic-endorsement-clinton-trump/92058964/
KarenInWA
-
Here is the link to the AZ article.... http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/2016/10/16/publisher-response-to-threats-after-republic-endorsement-clinton-trump/92058964/
I wanted to post that as well, it was a well written piece and I appreciated it had an immigrant slant.
Like it or not almost all of us have strong immigrant roots, most coming from war torn countries or from dirt poor countries... Most of our for fathers/mothers faced discrimination from those who came before, yet in aggregate they all contributed to creating a top notch country.
-
Either side can come up with completely valid, 100% defensible, reasons why it is morally unacceptable to vote for the other side - which leave this a battle of governing philosophies, not character. Character arguments are offered to augment, rather than formulate, voter's positions.
As to Obamacare, it is failing because it uses the standard govt trick of "everyone will support a tax someone else pays".
- Covering people with pre-existing conditions (like ours) will cost a lot of extra $$. It's like selling fire insurance on a burning building.
- That money will have to be taken from someone else either by increasing the price of something they feel they have to buy, or by the threat of government violence against them.
- You could make everyone pay via a income tax surcharge, or shift all that cost to those parties in the exchanges so that most people will think "I'm not in the exchange, that means someone else will pay to cover the sick people rather than me, this is good". The problem is the pool of payers is just too small to make up the difference that way without something breaking.
Obamacare has languished because our leaders have refused to make any improvements to it. The party in power refuses to do anything to help work around any problems that develop, instead they claim that they want to blow it up and start over. I'm sure they are happy to blow it up and let people loose coverage but I highly doubt they are ready to build something it is place, if they were they would have used their veto override to get a new better plan in place.
I look forward to a change in control allowing Hillary to improve the program and make it work better. Any yes that probably will include forcing everyone to participate rather than allowing the most healthy people to burden the public once they get sick...
-
The party in power refuses to do anything to help work around any problems that develop, instead they claim that they want to blow it up and start over.
That's because both parties refuse to directly discuss the issue - who will fund the transfer payments?
Making "everyone participate" excludes the people who get it though work (thus excluding the sickest) and puts the entire transfer payment burden on the individual buyer, thus allowing the Democracts to assure "most people" that "someone else will pay".
Tell EVERYONE they will pay to fund health care for others and see how much support you get.
Like it or not almost all of us have strong immigrant roots, most coming from war torn countries or from dirt poor countries... Most of our for fathers/mothers faced discrimination from those who came before, yet in aggregate they all contributed to creating a top notch country.
During earlier immigrant waves, immigrants were rejected if sick, TB infected, or otherwise unable to make a positive contribution to the country. It was not "come to the US for your welfare card, subsidized housing and free health care".
-
Simon Dog for President!!!
:yahoo; :cheer: :cuddle;
Trump doesn't have a problem with migration. It is the "illegal" part the Dems keep forgetting to insert. He didn't say all Mexican's are criminals. He said "Illegal Immigrants" are criminals. They are here illegally.... If you go to Mexico illegally... guess what? You are a criminal.
Karen what happened to the liberal "Diversity and Tolerance" that apply to any other group? Yet Trump followers are "A Basket of Deplorables" !! Hypocrites~
-
If you go to Mexico illegally... guess what? You are a criminal.
And you do not get free health care; an EBT card; free education and a political party that wants your vote talking "path to citizenship".
In fact, some Mexicans who moved back cannot even get their own children enrolled in Mexican schools without a Mexican birth certificate.
The US is not lobbying Mexico to reduce the barriers to immigration, or let illegal immigrants stay as Mexico does with the US. It'ss a if they want their people to detach from the Mexican nipple and hook up to the US teat.
Remember, a basic principle of rule of law is that one must not be better off as a result of having broken the law. This means that any penalty for illegal immigration must leave the criminal wishing (s)he had not broken the law. Failure to do that is like catching someone who embezzled $50k, fining him $10k, and letting him keep the $50k of ill gotten booty.
-
Absolutely Agree!
:beer1;
-
I hate to point out some flaws in the Mexican line. One, there are fewer Mexicans crossing now then ever before, most of the illeagals are from Central America. The other flaw is that in all immigrants to the US Mexicans put the fewest people on welfare, they are amongst the hardest workers in this country. Finally the election is over Trump looses Hilary has leads in enough states she should get at least 352 electorial votes. Trump is behind in Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona, penn., and Ohio which he may salvage.
-
I hate to point out some flaws in the Mexican line. One, there are fewer Mexicans crossing now then ever before, most of the illeagals are from Central America.
Do these Central Americans cross over the Mexico/US border, or do they arrive through other portals of entry?
-
Karen what happened to the liberal "Diversity and Tolerance" that apply to any other group? Yet Trump followers are "A Basket of Deplorables" !! Hypocrites~
Rerun - did you even read the article at the link I posted? This is a conservative newspaper in the Red state of Arizona, who for the first time in 150 years are not endorsing the Republican candidate. As a result of that, Trump followers have threatened violence, and displayed questionable behavior at a Trump Rally to a reporter who was there. The thing about the whole "deplorables" comment is that it's kind of accurate - especially when you get a lot of Trump followers in a large group. Not all, mind you. I think we had a somewhat peaceful Trump rally here in Everett, WA a month or 2 ago, and I think the one up in Lynden was drama-free too. I don't remember any big stories coming out of those, anyway. But the ones that are in the Red states? Scary as h*ll.
And yes, of course there is the Republican office in NC that was firebombed. The good news is that no one was in it. The bad news is it happened. Someone who worked there talked on live TV about having filled out absentee ballots stored there that are now ruined. Thing is, those ballots should have been mailed in to the election office - not to a Republican (or Democrat) office. Hopefully, the person(s) responsible will be caught and punished accordingly - no matter what their party affiliation is. Fire bombing private or public property is never acceptable.
KarenInWA
-
As a result of that, Trump followers have threatened violence, and displayed questionable behavior at a Trump Rally to a reporter who was there.
But, but..... the media has directly told us that a credible threat of violence is an effective way to dictate editorial policy.
Just try to print a satire of Mohammed and you will be told the Muslims have prohibited it, and enforce their policy via violence, so they must be obeyed.
-
Yes, if some idiot is trying to disrupt your speech... take them out.
-
While I am clearly not a Trump supporter the fire bombing of the republican campaign building was despicable. Whoever the moron is that did it took the chance tat the building was empty, if it was occupied this could have been a even worse tragedy.
-
Okay, dont any body look, but how many posts did Bill Peckham make? Guess he did not get a lot of questions, just opinions. LOL!!!
-
Just heard some audio leaks that the Dems paid people to go to Trump Rally's to start trouble and fight to MAKE it look like Trump supporters were Loony. OMG it is hard for me to even think like that. They are so corrupt!
Now they will make it look like Trump Supporters blew up the Republican building in NC. But.... God knows.
:Kit n Stik;
-
Yes, if some idiot is trying to disrupt your speech... take them out.
This is the big leagues where the only thing that matters is winning. This is like a gunfight - there is no second place winner (quoting Bill Jordan).
-
I know. We can't say anything without hurting someone's feelings.
This is crazy. Not sure I will watch the debates tomorrow night.
Yeah right! :shy;
-
Actually I am looking forward to them You have to go back to the Blaine Aurthur election in 1884 to find a dirtier election. It is curious to see what new factoid Herr Trump is going to fabricate and latch on to in a attempt to turn around the dumbest campaign ever. He has even taken up the dispicable rant that the election is rigged. Twice in my life time there was a good chance the election was stolen. 1960 Nixon may have actually beaten Kennedy and 2000 Gore did beart Bush. In both cases the looser did this country a great service by not taking the country into a quagmire that would have called into question the legitimacy of the new administration. Trump if he looses will pick up his football and whine the election was stolen, maybe he should move to Moscow and become Putin butt boy.
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
:sarcasm;
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
:sarcasm;
If Trump wins, I guess I'll get serious and finally start making plans for my death. I should have done that already given my health. But with a Trump Presidency, it will suddenly become Real.
KarenInWA
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
:sarcasm;
If Trump wins, I guess I'll get serious and finally start making plans for my death. I should have done that already given my health. But with a Trump Presidency, it will suddenly become Real.
KarenInWA
Please, Karen, please stay with us and please let's not forget: we need you here and you are an important member of IHD and we love your wise inputs !!!
And... please let's consider an old Continental wisdom which says, that nothing is ever eaten as hot as it is actually cooked...
Please Karen, please stay with us and I send you my best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
:sarcasm;
If Trump wins, I guess I'll get serious and finally start making plans for my death. I should have done that already given my health. But with a Trump Presidency, it will suddenly become Real.
KarenInWA
Please, Karen, please stay with us and please let's not forget: we need you here and you are an important member of IHD and we love your wise inputs !!!
And... please let's consider an old Continental wisdom which says, that nothing is ever eaten as hot as it is actually cooked...
Please Karen, please stay with us and I send you my best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
Kristina - the only reason why I would plan for my own death is because of how dangerous a Trump Presidency could be to my health, my health coverage, and the overall safety of my nation. A man who is as sporadic as he is should never have control over nuclear weapons and the most powerful military on this earth. I fear for the future if he wins. You even have his fans on here saying that he should cut ESRD coverage here in the US.
KarenInWA
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
:sarcasm;
If Trump wins, I guess I'll get serious and finally start making plans for my death. I should have done that already given my health. But with a Trump Presidency, it will suddenly become Real.
KarenInWA
Please, Karen, please stay with us and please let's not forget: we need you here and you are an important member of IHD and we love your wise inputs !!!
And... please let's consider an old Continental wisdom which says, that nothing is ever eaten as hot as it is actually cooked...
Please Karen, please stay with us and I send you my best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
Kristina - the only reason why I would plan for my own death is because of how dangerous a Trump Presidency could be to my health, my health coverage, and the overall safety of my nation. A man who is as sporadic as he is should never have control over nuclear weapons and the most powerful military on this earth. I fear for the future if he wins. You even have his fans on here saying that he should cut ESRD coverage here in the US.
KarenInWA
Thank you Karen for your explanation, which is very much appreciated.
I still hope very much (and I certainly keep my fingers crossed!!!) that "things" turn out alright in the end,
because I can't imagine that history could actually repeat itself...
... and that reminds me of Bertold Brecht's 1935 poem about "Questions From a Worker Who Reads":
Who built Thebes of the 7 gates ?
In the books you will read the names of kings.
Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock ?
And Babylon, many times demolished,
Who raised it up so many times ?
In what houses of gold glittering Lima did its builders live ?
Where, the evening that the Great Wall of China was finished, did the masons go?
Great Rome is full of triumphal arches.
Who erected them ?
Over whom did the Caesars triumph ?
Had Byzantium, much praised in song, only palaces for its inhabitants ?
Even in fabled Atlantis, the night that the ocean engulfed it,
The drowning still cried out for their slaves.
The young Alexander conquered India.
Was he alone ?
Caesar defeated the Gauls.
Did he not even have a cook with him ?
Philip of Spain wept when his armada went down.
Was he the only one to weep ?
Frederick the 2nd won the 7 Years War.
Who else won it ?
Every page a victory.
Who cooked the feast for the victors ?
Every 10 years a great man.
Who paid the bill ?
So many reports.
So many questions.
Berthold Brecht (1898 – 1956)
-
Trump wins I am moving to Canada.
-
Trump wins I am moving to Canada.
I'd be willing to bet you won't, but that cannot be tested as Trump will almost certainly lose.
Barbara Streisand and others never followed up on their promise to the American people to move out of the US if Bush won.
Also, you may find you can't just move to Canada eh? and be met with a warm reception when you say "I am here, where is my free dialysis?".
sp mod Cas
-
Nope, our health care won't kick in for any of you until you are resident at least six months :)
-
Nope, our health care won't kick in for any of you until you are resident at least six months :)
OK, so that's 72 dialysis treatments on a "self pay" bases for a refugee from the US. Sounds like a US dialysis patient moving to Canada eh? should move to a border town close enough to cross back over for dialysis during those 6 months.
-
Yes I think Hillary congratulates Trump and goes home. In 2000 when a republican court picked Bush the lesser as president Al Gore Conceded and shut up about how the election was stolen by 5 republican judges who over turned over 200 years of precedents that elections were a state matter and made it a Federal matter in order to give us 8 years of war and recession brought on by Bush the lesser. Even Dick Nixon who could have tied up the 1960 election over the Illinois returns did what was best for the country and conceded to unify the country behind the next President. Instead of that we have People who attempt to delegitimizatize the President of the US out of petty politics. I think of the Trump birther movement. If this crap don't stop this country is going to keep getting worse since no one will be able to get anything done.
-
stolen by 5 republican judges
The lack of integrity on the supreme court is obvious when people start successfully predicting cases based on the political leanings of the judges. It seems that an impartial decision based on the merits of cases is all but gone in any case which can be framed as a liberal v. conservative issue, in which case many of the votes are known in advance based on political leanings.
What you say about the SCOTUS election case is true. It is equally true that no liberal justice voted to uphold the second amendment, even when stare decisis should have made the McDonald case a no-brainer (does an amendment, once protected at the federal level, constrain state government behavior). The liberal wing voted "well, that depends if we like the protected behavior".
-
My vote is already in for Hillary ! :2thumbsup;
-
I am not into politics at all but i do have one question for clinton voters. How r u all ok with this?
"You just heard Hillary Clinton on live TV, into a mic she knew was on, explicitly defend, and say point blank that late term / partial birth abortions are "constitutionally protected" and that she will appoint Supreme Court justices who agree with her. That means that up until the babies due date, the baby is half-delivered, kicking and screaming, and its spine is cut or brain punctured and its life is ended. If you're ok with that, you are dead inside."
I won't post the picture that came with it as it is horrible. But most of u know my daughter who is now 5 was 5 weeks early delivered to save my kidney. She came out screaming breathing on her own and responded to touch our voices and pain. But according to Hilary i could have made the decision to late term abort her the same day she was delivered but the difference in outcome woyld not have changed my situation it would just mean she was killed coming out?! I am not wanting an abortion debate i just honestly don't understand why or how this is ever necessary or ok and i,m sorry but if this was trump's policy he would be branded the most evil man alive! So why is it ok for Clinton? For me this policy alone would make me vote for trump regardless of what his are!
Anywat who do u all think will win?
-
Say Trump wins? What do you think the Dems and Hillary's camp would do? Congratulate Trump and go home?
I hope so. You guys always take the high road?
Had to comment on this as the eu remainers in the uk still aren't taking the high road. They don't understand a majority however slight and are constantly posting and mocking leavers and trying to get it overturned :rofl; This is one of tge reasons i think trump might win. All the leavers were slated in the headlines farage was destroyed polls said leavers had no hope but they won regardless. Probably as nobody wanted to say they were voting leave due to remainers shouting them down kind if like trump and clintob supporters. Interested to see the outcome!
:sarcasm;
-
Laniepop, from what I understand, late – term abortion is only done in extreme circumstances to save the life of the mother. And in these cases the baby is usually not healthy enough to live very long outside of the womb, or is already dead. Since Trump made his claim during the debates, there have been many doctors going to the media telling Why his scenario is extremely unlikely and does not happen. There have also been stories from women who have had to go through these late term abortions, and all the pain and havoc that they went through in order to make that horrible decision and how the government has no place in such a decision. There have also been stories about women who were denied a late term abortion and who as a result lost their lives.
What Trump was talking about was birth, plain and simple. Sometimes the birth happens through the birth canal, sometimes via c-section. Trump is an alarmist who knows his base and knows how to rile them up.
KarenInWA
-
I will answer as I have before, in my youth a close friend made a mistake and became pregnant, no not by me. This was 1967 abortion was a crime, so she went to a back alley abortionist and the procedure killed her, a bright, beautiful person paid with her life for a mistake. The plain fact is that abortions are a a horrible solution for a problem but what used to occur was much worse. The truth is the law in this country is that the procedure is legal, you may not like it but the law of the land is that the procedure is every women's choice. Instead of banning the procedure it would be more reasonable to work on stopping teen pregnacies.
-
For lainiepop...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/health/donald-trump-debate-late-abortion-remarks.html?_r=1
-
Ultimately it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of abortion because - unless you are a party involved in the creation of that pregnancy, it's NOT your decision. Just as I don't get to decide your medical treatment for your kidney disease.
Partial birth abortions are tragic situations. They aren't last minute "oops I don't want this baby after all" decisions. They are medical procedures done with medical professionals in hospital settings when the life of the mother is at severe risk. Most doctors will NOT perform them unless there is a medical reason for you to need one. So, it sounds like your daughter would not have been anywhere near that same category. I think in this case, Trump is confusing a partial birth abortion with a C-section.
Personally, I don't support abortion, but until we start doing better as a country at comprehensive sex education and preventative pregnancy methods being taught and taking better care of the kids that do fall through the cracks and end up in the horrible foster system... I will support a woman's right to make that decision for herself. We should be doing more to make it not even need to be an option, though.
It's one of many reasons I'm voting for Clinton.
-
Just as I don't get to decide your medical treatment for your kidney disease.
Actually, you do ... or rather the government does. The standard of treatment (for example 3x/week rather than every other day) is established by CMS, and rules once you are on medicare. Since the standard is the "de-facto standard" across the industy, private insurance customers also have their care dictated by CMS. Bundle regulations influence the drugs you get.
I think in this case, Trump is confusing a partial birth abortion with a C-section.
I believe Trump is easily confused
-
Just as I don't get to decide your medical treatment for your kidney disease.
Actually, you do ... or rather the government does. The standard of treatment (for example 3x/week rather than every other day) is established by CMS, and rules once you are on medicare. Since the standard is the "de-facto standard" across the industy, private insurance customers also have their care dictated by CMS. Bundle regulations influence the drugs you get.
Right... but the decision as to if you wish to pursue dialysis or a transplant, or the type of dialysis isn't decided for you. You get to make those choices yourself based on your situation. Rules, regulations, and best practices are set by the government but when it comes to what is actually done to your person you get the final say.
-
Right... but the decision as to if you wish to pursue dialysis or a transplant, or the type of dialysis isn't decided for you. You get to make those choices yourself based on your situation. Rules, regulations, and best practices are set by the government but when it comes to what is actually done to your person you get the final say.
Only sort of. The govt sets limits as to what is paid for which, in turn, limits the scope of your decision.
-
Right... but the decision as to if you wish to pursue dialysis or a transplant, or the type of dialysis isn't decided for you. You get to make those choices yourself based on your situation. Rules, regulations, and best practices are set by the government but when it comes to what is actually done to your person you get the final say.
Only sort of. The govt sets limits as to what is paid for which, in turn, limits the scope of your decision.
But remember what happened before the gov't stepped in - patients were chosen by a committee or left to die. Do you honestly think insurance companies would be lining up to take any of us on as clients/patients???
KarenInWA
-
I would like to point out, for all the people on dialysis which is paid for by the government to think about this: there is no way on God's green earth that the Social Security Amendments Act of 1972 that pays for everyone's dialysis treatment that was passed in 1972 would possibly pass today. The Republican (Tea Party) controlled House would not approve it because all they want to do is obstruct everything. If that legislation happened to come on the floor today, they would not give a flying donut if people died from kidney disease. It would be labeled "socialist" and evil. It could never pass today. A very sad state of affairs.
-
After it passed all we want is MORE. Transplant drugs for life, Transplants paid for in full, on and on. Medicare was supposed to be for old people. Paying for dialysis is enough. If you give a mouse a cookie....
Never enough for Libs.
-
Well the votes are being counted.
The winner is yet to be determined.
I find it hard to imagine a country that kills it's babies will continue keeping old folks alive for very long.
I expect staying on this path will involve legal euthanasia that later will be used to remove the non-contributors.
What happened to ethics in this country?
-
After it passed all we want is MORE. Transplant drugs for life, Transplants paid for in full, on and on. Medicare was supposed to be for old people. Paying for dialysis is enough. If you give a mouse a cookie....
Never enough for Libs.
So Rerun, what you're saying is, you'd rather our tax dollars go to pay for expensive chronic dialysis instead of transplant surgery and meds, which over time, is a LOT less costly than dialysis? And, in most cases, a transplant patient can then go on and work and contribute to society, instead of languishing between dialysis sessions, barely existing - both financially, since qualifying for assistance is a trap of poverty - and personally, since long-term dialysis is draining for most people. Now I have been lucky - I have one of those union jobs that Republicans like to hate on so much, although, I am in the private sector, not the public. I didn't even use Medicare to pay for my transplant meds, but it was secondary for my transplant surgery and post-biopsy emergency surgery. This month will be 5 years that i have had my kidney.
It sounds like to me that you have adopted a very judgemental view on those of us on dialysis/or living with a tranplant. How are you able to look at yourself in the mirror everyday??? I honestly don't understand you. On one post, you say you believe in single-payer healthcare, and then on this one, you're saying that we're asking for too much. I completely agree with you that healthcare costs need to be reined in. Absolutely they do. I firmly believe in paying our dr's, nurses, and various health technicians what they are worth for their knowledge and skill. I do not believe in all the $$ being made by all the people in the middle. Yes, they need jobs, too, but they sure don't need them at the expense of other people's lives and livelihood. Our country is going to be a very scary place going foward, especially for those of us who are chronically ill. I will be making my will.
KarenInWA
-
Once upon a time you could get paid for being sick. Yea, fairy tale. But seriously, IF you could afford multiple insurance policies, and back then insurance didn't cost near as much as it does now. But Employer paid insurance for the whole family was great! Insured through Dad's work, and again through Mom's work, there was NO co-pays, NO deductables, as each company paid. There was NO cost sharing as there is now. Now the Insurance Companies conspire to refuse coverage. Splitting to toal medical charges and leaving a portion so the person still has a deductable AND a co-pay.
I hate insurance companies.
-
Once upon a time you could get paid for being sick. Yea, fairy tale. But seriously, IF you could afford multiple insurance policies, and back then insurance didn't cost near as much as it does now. But Employer paid insurance for the whole family was great! Insured through Dad's work, and again through Mom's work, there was NO co-pays, NO deductables, as each company paid. There was NO cost sharing as there is now. Now the Insurance Companies conspire to refuse coverage. Splitting to toal medical charges and leaving a portion so the person still has a deductable AND a co-pay.
I hate insurance companies.
I'm still in that past reality, at least for now. I have a union job (which Republicans want abolished), that has excellent benefits. When I had Medicare I had no co-pay or deductable between the 2. I got paid STD while I was off for both my tx surgery and my post-biopsy emergency surgery. That was 5 years ago. I have a different insurance policy now, but my co-pays for most generic meds is $0, and my in-network deductible is only $200. I can't believe how lucky I (still) am. Contract expires in May....
KarenInWA
-
How are all you Americans feeling today? President Trump! I'm not surprised i thought this may happen after brexit. Didn't expect it to be such a big victory though thought would be closer. Been watching since this morning uk time on and off. Did Hilary appear in the end to make a speech as i am hearing she didn't and sent someone else to do it?
-
She spoke this morning close to noon EST. I, as an ESRD patient, will be making my will. With all the Republicans in charge, I am scared for the future of my healthcare. I have a Target on my back, it is called "Pre-Existing Condition".
KarenInWA
-
Good Morning America! :cheer:
I am looking forward to THE Change!
ALL Lives Matter!
:yahoo;
-
I am looking forward to THE Change!
Just. You. Wait. You have put your faith in one of the most corrupt individuals, evah!
-
I am looking forward to THE Change!
Just. You. Wait. You have put your faith in one of the most corrupt individuals, evah!
Now Now don't be a bad loser. Tolerance and Diversity..... Remember? :beer1;
My "Faith" is in Jesus Christ who is the King of the World, not just a president.
-
My faith is in God.
I hope God uses Trump to help re-establish morals in this country.
Legal euthanasia passed in Colorado.
I say "Save the Human Babies" Stop Killing our future.
-
Am generally interested in the healthcare situation. As every one on here is a kidney patient how can some vote Trump some Clinton if u believe one party will basically cut off all care available? How does it work?
As a brit i feel Trump winning is a good thing for Uk in light of brexit. He seems to like us more than obama and clinton, and agrees with the decision to leave eu whereas the others not. In fact people were really upset when obama condemned the decision to leave and stated he would not give us trade deals. And we thought we were your closest allies :rofl; :cuddle; The EU are now desperately backtracking as they have been slating trump throughout the campaign and have made it clear they do not like him. Who knows! Interesting times !
Fixed Smileys - Rerun, Admin
-
My faith is in God.
I hope God uses Trump to help re-establish morals in this country.
Legal euthanasia passed in Colorado.
I say "Save the Human Babies" Stop Killing our future.
:thumbup; :guitar:
-
I hope God uses Trump to help re-establish morals in this country.
Morals? Like grabbing women by the pu$$y? Like stiffing your contractors? Like being unfaithful to all 3 of his wives? Like committing treason with Putin? Like defrauding people at Trump University and using his "foundation" as a slush fund? I think I'll skip those "morals." What's wrong with you people? Do you not have eyes to see?
-
Just. You. Wait. You have put your faith in one of the most corrupt individuals, evah!
I don't think Trump is crooked, but he play business by full-contact hardball rules, legally screwing everyone he can. He never got caught doing something criminal, but tactics like "I'll pay you 70% or tie you up in court" is morally, but not legally, criminal. Ditto for Trump U. I just hope he plays similar hardball with our international "partners".
-
Morals? Like grabbing women by the pu$$y? Like stiffing your contractors? Like being unfaithful to all 3 of his wives? Like committing treason with Putin? Like defrauding people at Trump University and using his "foundation" as a slush fund? I think I'll skip those "morals." What's wrong with you people? Do you not have eyes to see?
No, Morals like telling the Nation Benghazi was a murder of our 4 Americans because of some Video on Islam. When in fact is was because you were sleeping and didn't answer 600 pleas for help. Morals like erasing 35K emails after you have been subpoenaed. Morals like using a Charity Foundation in your name to laundry Money. OMG Who is blind?
-
I suspect what the public refuses to admit is that ALL career Politicians are corrupt. Congress was NEVER meant to become a career. It was intended for the farmer, shopkeeper, even the bartender to be elected by his peers, PAY his own way to Washington DC, Provide his OWN housing, and meals for the limited number of days necessary to handle needed Congressional measures, then return HOME to his own farm, job, whatever. Because family, friends, and neighbors were taking care of his job during his absence.
And there was NO PAY. Salaries are not spelled out until 'Congress' voted themselves a salary, and VOTED to draw taxes from the public, to pay these salaries.
Senators and Congressmen did one or two terms then were replaced, it was a tremendous burden on the rancher, farmer, shopkeeper.
We now have 'Professional' Career Politicians, almost broke when they get into office. But within just a few years, are millionaires. Where did all that money come from? I know they get paid fairly well, but not that well. I doubt if there is even ONE honest person in either the Congress or the Senate.
Because of all the above I have been preaching the phrase
One and Done Vote the career politicians OUT.
-
Wonder if their stock just went up again..
http://www.referralcandy.com/blog/kleenex-increased-stock-value-3-times-within-5-years-via-word-mouth/
-
I suspect what the public refuses to admit is that ALL career Politicians are corrupt.
We had a congessman in MA who ran on a "term limit" platform (Marty Meehan). Naturally, once he neared the end of his term, he decided term limits were not a good idea, opposed them, and was easily re-elected until he retired to attach to the public nipple a president of the University of Mass.
-
If this is true....
Why has it been suppressed?
Watch the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgheRzhCTkc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgheRzhCTkc)
-
If this is true....
Why has it been suppressed?
Watch the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgheRzhCTkc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgheRzhCTkc)
I didn't watch the whole thing, but the only thing I can say is this - the DNC has blodd on its hands. They rigged the primaries to get Clinton in. If Bernie Sanders had won the Democratic Primary like we know he did, we would be having a vastly different conversation today. All I know is, I fear for the future like I never have before. If Trumpet is true to his word and promises, we are all in trouble.
KarenInWA
-
Fear Monger. Why is there riots over in Seattle? Because we have jobs over here we have to go to. Hilary won over there. We should be rioting. I voted against the min wage. A small business can't make it now. I voted for Bill Bryant. Lost
You don't see me going out to riot. :thumbdown;
-
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/3/5414660_8716bf615a.jpg)
-
Wow Rerun, no jobs in Seattle??? Seriously??? So is that why home prices and rents are so high over here, because there are no jobs??? Okay, if you want to think that, you go right ahead.
I voted for Bryant, too. I did not vote for ST3. Minimum wage I'm on the fence on, because I don't want small business hurt, but i want the bigger businesses to not train their employees how to suck the public teat. Big business can afford to pay their employees a living wage. There is no excuse not to.
I worked a full 8 hours today, and tomorrow will be my Wednesday. My medical care is covered by my insurance that is provided by my job, which is union protected with union wages and union benefits. I'm everything a Republican hates - chronically ill single woman with no children, no man who is making it on her own with no public help whatsoever, all thanks to a union job giving me a chance, paying me a healthy wage and providing me with healthy benefits that allows me to spend my $$ on things that make the economy go 'round. That ain't boot straps enough for them Repubs. And I'm sure there are a number of Repubs who look at me as nothing more than a waste of a uterus.
I'm not in the streets of Seattle right now. Preserving my tx is my top priority, so public riots are out for me. No dr told me that, that's just a personal choice I make. However, peaceful protest is within the law of the land, although these days, a protest is rarely peaceful. I understand their need to get their word out, but I do not support blocking public streets or property damage. I certainly don't support violent protest. One's freedom to express themselves should not infringe upone someone else's freedom of movement. I wish people would respect that.
KarenInWA
-
I think many will be disappointed hoping President elect Trump will solve all their problems.
He will not.
I think many will be outraged no matter what he does or leaves undone.
He can't make everyone happy.
I don't think he is the type to kill off (cull) the ill.
Lets all stand behind him and see what happens.
I still stand behind President Obama although I never voted for him and do not agree with most of the bills he has passed.
Not to mention the lack of a budget.
The way I see it..
President Obama has not been able to destroy this country.
President elect Trump will now have his turn.
-
I see no way Trump will be helpful to people with Renal failure!!!!
-
Neither is there any reason to think President elect Trump will cause harm to the ESRD program.
-
Karen, you are a strong woman. You sound Conservative to me. Not wanting handouts, going to work and making it on your own. The ones rioting have nothing else to do. They voted. That was their say. King county gets all the votes anyway. None of us count over here. 3/4 of the state of WA is RED but we go blue. WTF
Obama should be on social media telling the rioters to "quit whining" like he did to Trump when he said he would wait and see how the election turned out.
I admire Trump; the way he didn't quit but the Republicans were jumping off the boat right and left and NOW oh Trump is their best friend. I hope he drains the swamp and replaces them all.
Obama did nothing for us either as Renal Patients. The Affordable Care Act is NOT Affordable anymore.
-
Rerun, Trump will not be able to drain the swamp because most of the swamp was reelected in Congress. Paul Ryan is still there. McConnell is still there. They are all still there.
-
They may be there but President Trump can ignore them. Not ask their opinion etc. I'm so mad that NOW they are behind him and anxious to work with him. Kind of like Mean Girls in school.
I at least wanted to give Obama a chance but he did nothing in my opinion. Nothing good anyway. When he turned his back on police that is when he lost all my respect. He presumed the police guilty before finding out all the facts. Notice after the trials were complete most (not all) were acquitted.
I'm sorry you are sad your Candidate didn't get elected. She won the popular vote and I would be mad too EXCEPT all I heard from the Liberal media all week before the election was how the Electoral Vote is what counts and All Hillary needed was 270. So, I guess we need to accept that.
-
1. I accept the results as per the constitutionally mandated Electoral College. I am not claiming the election was rigged; can you imagine if Clinton had won the electoral vote but not the popular vote?
2. Obama bent over backwards to show support for both police and for victims of police misconduct. In this particular debate, one cannot pick a side, rather, one has to recognize the difficulties and injustices experienced by both groups.
3. It seems to have escaped most people that Mr. Trump's lawyers are due in court on Nov 28 for a fraud trial. The president elect faces all sorts of federal charges and legal challenges. He will be mired down in all of this mess before he even gets to his inauguration day. Those in Congress who opposed him during his campaign will have all sorts of legal ammunition in their arsenal, so President Trump won't be able to just "ignore" the will of Congress. Despite the fact that Mr. Trump has told us all that only he "can fix it", he cannot without the support of Congress. Politics is not like business; that will be his first lesson. Can he work with Paul Ryan?
4. On a brighter note, since the markets feel that Mr. Trump is "on the side of business", and since the markets (Big Pharma) are now happy that Hillary Clinton, who proposed regulating the pricing of prescription drugs, was not elected, my portfolio has earned me a fistful of dollars in just 24 hours.
5. I really am not given to conspiracy theories, but I do confess to being concerned about Russian influence on this election. Putin is becoming more authoritarian the longer he is in power, and knowing that he is pleased with the outcome of our election, well, that does give me some pause. Did you see the video clip of him and his officials drinking to the result? I really hope I am worrying for no good reason.
6. I do wish Mr. Trump all the best, and I truly look forward to the billions of dollars he plans to use to rebuild our nation's infrastructure. I was at LaGuardia recently, and it's a dump. We are supposedly a first world country, but you'd never know it, especially if you spend time travelling abroad and marvel at others' airports and motorways. I look forward to having our manufacturing jobs restored and having many more people employed in the rural areas of our country. I want to see everyone prosper by having enough to eat and by having access to medical care and by having access to a good education. I want to see everyone represented no matter where they live, what color they are or what their religious affiliation may be. I want to see respect for each other restored. This will all be on Trump's shoulders. He has promised us that this is what he is going to do.
On a personal note, I would find it much easier to accept Mr. Trump if he apologized to President Obama for the whole birther movement. That was such a horrible, horrible thing. President Obama didn't deserve that, and it did so much to hurt us all. It was all a lie, such a lie. Mr. Trump needs to show a LOT of grace. His behavior will be closely scrutinized. He really does need to apologize for that.
-
Karen, you are a strong woman. You sound Conservative to me. Not wanting handouts, going to work and making it on your own.
I'm not Karen, but I'm also a strong woman. I'm also VERY liberal. I don't want handouts and I go to work every day. I'm single and own a nice house with a mortgage that'll be paid off about 20 years early, I help my neighbors, am kind to strangers, ...
And I'm sorry Trump was elected. I'm also trying hard to keep this in mind:
"I hope Donald Trump is a good president. Wanting him to fail is like wanting the pilot to crash the plane that we ALL are on."
-
These are the Republicans who wanted President Obama to fail and did not care about the American people:
Representatives Eric Cantor (VA), Kevin McCarthy (CA), Paul Ryan (WI), Pete Sessions (TX), Jeb Hensarling (TX), Pete Hoesktra (MI), and Dan Lungren (CA). Also, at that infamous meeting were Republican Senators Jim DeMint (SC), Jon Kyle (AZ), Tom Coburn (OK), John Ensign (NV) and Bob Corker (TN).
Among those who were not in government at the time who vowed that night to undermine every single thing that the President sought to accomplish were Newt Gingrich who is now seeking a position in Trump's cabinet.
These people wanted the plane to crash. These people only wanted to regain political power and to hell with anyone or anything else. These people forgot all of those people who talked so eloquently about having felt forgotten. Those Trump voters were on that damned plane, but they didn't know that the pilot was being held hostage by these domestic terrorists.
What is even worse is these people ARE THE SWAMP, the very swamp that Trump wants to drain. These are the people who are the very embodiment of why Washington doesn't work. Many of them are still in power (looking at you, Paul Ryan).
-
These are the Republicans who wanted President Obama to fail and did not care about the American people:
Agreed.
Are you saying there will not be Democrats who place a higher priority on making Trump fail than the good of the country?
electoral vote but not the popular vote?
Irrelevant, since we would have had different results (not saying a different winner, though that could happen) if the candidate campaigned knowing the popular vote counted. Trump would not have written off CA, NY and MA and Clinton would have spent more time in fly over country, which might have changed how some people voted.
In this particular debate, one cannot pick a side
People can, and do, pick side. Police side with their own regardless of facts, and the BLM movement picked a side in the Tayvon Martin shooting without looking at the same facts the police and prosecution did (until a politically motivated prosecution ensued).
-
Simon Dog, yes, I am saying that there will not be high ranking Congressional Democrats who will be plotting the demise of a Trump presidency on the very night of his inauguration.
I think you've missed my point regarding the popular vote, but it doesn't really matter enough to me to try again.
However, I should have been clearer about taking sides. I meant to say that the President, no matter who that person is, should not take sides. I honestly do not think that President Obama took sides. I would have been disappointed if he had. It was important that he recognized the anguish of the families of those people who were shot and killed by the police for no good reason while also recognizing the danger faced by the police and showing gratitude for their service.
-
Donald Trump just won Arizona. 11 more Electoral votes. I wonder what this will do to the popular vote. I still have a problem with winning 290 to 228 and not winning the popular vote. I am going to go add them up. I bet the liberal media is lying to us AGAIN.
-
Donald Trump just won Arizona. 11 more Electoral votes. I wonder what this will do to the popular vote. I still have a problem with winning 290 to 228 and not winning the popular vote. I am going to go add them up. I bet the liberal media is lying to us AGAIN.
Well, it's not like the first time this has happened. Al Gore won the popular vote in 2000 but the Presidency went to George Bush. Oh, but maybe that was just all lies from the liberal media.
What should also bother you, though, is who Trump is looking to appoint to his transition team. He is appointing old establishment figures from the Bush/Cheney administration along with lobbyists from Big Pharma and other special interests. So much for "draining the swamp". He's not even in office yet, and he has already broken one of his biggest campaign promises to us.
-
That is right. He isn't even in office yet. Let's wait and see. Draining the swamp to me is all the corrupt LEFT in there.
I don't think we will ever agree on who the swamp monsters are. :waiting;
-
Rerun, Trump called out all of Congress, so according to him, Congress as a whole is the swamp. He specifically targeted his ire at Paul Ryan. You and I might not agree who the swamp monsters are, but Trump has already told us.
-
No matter how hard it is.....
This is the home of the Brave and the land of the Free...
United We Stand...
Divided we fall..
In 2020, God willing, there we be a new election..
If President Trump runs again you can vote against him. (I might, I'm not sure yet)
When President elect Trump is President..
I will stand behind him.........
Just like I stand behind President Obama..
Who I did not ever vote for....
This is the United States of America ..
A republic experiment...
Americas are a blend..
We are a mixing pot of peoples.
Have Pride in your Country and be a Brave Free American...................................
Support our President and the President elect.
Think about it anyway....
-
When the cabal of republican senators announced that the senate would only vote on scouts nominations from republican presidents they started a split in the government. They set the rules, in the last 8 years they road blocked Obama at every turn. Now you think it is time for every one to come together. Hell no. There is enough demcrats in the senate to block anything trump wants to do. Filibuster still works. In addition during the 8 years of Bush the lesser I at that time spoke of the President with the respect the office deserved then. Now after 8'years of Republican attacks of the office and Obama Personally. I now bestow the name I will use to refer to our President. He is President Drumpf the idiot, court jester of Emperor Putin.
-
It didn't matter what the house and senate said..... OBummer did it anyway in his executive orders. That set the rules too.
The Stock Market is up again. ding ding ding ding ding
-
Well it seems very obvious to many of us external observers that many Americans DID have very serious qualms about voting for Clinton, afterall. We were all told on the day before the election to prepare for the election victory of HC. I still can't believe how astonishing it's been to see the opposite result occur. It has caught EVERYBODY by complete surprise.
Personally, it was crystal clear to me why Trump was voted in. I have never paid any attention whatsoever to all the personal attacks and politically motivated charges made against him but always paid attention to his proposed policies & his general prescription that a serious change to the free-trade globalisation status quo needed to be made & all the inequities & injustices that come with this. The suffering silent majority that is forgotten and ignored is a very real phenomenon not just in the US but in other developed countries.
Now having said that, I have not looked at his health policies in any great detail. Obamacare is going to be scraped. I don't know if what he is proposing to introduce in its place will be better or worse, but I do know that many Americans were not necessarily better off under Obamacare (correct me if I'm wrong). DJT does not strike me as someone who's interested in making many people worse off under his health reforms compared to his predecessor. This remains to be seen of course.
-
Athena,
1. More people voted for Hillary Clinton than voted for Donald Trump, so there were more people who had serious qualms about Donald Trump. I'm not saying that to whinge, rather, I just want you to know the facts.
2. As you have paid attention to his policy proposals, could you explain them to the rest of us?
3. Obamacare will not be scrapped. Donald Trump has already said that there are things he likes about it, such as the bit where you can't be denied coverage if you have a pre-existing condition. Whether or not a person is "suffering" under the ACA depends entirely upon in which state you live. The ACA was never meant to be run from a federal level. You probably know that "states' rights" is a big deal here, so the idea was for each state to run its own insurance exchange. However, governors of red states made the political decision to return the power to the federal government. People in Kentucky like their system until they find out it is actually Obamacare but with a different name. Also, one facet of the ACA is the expansion of Medicaid in the states, and again, people in the states that have chosen to expand Medicaid are not "suffering". Those who now have coverage under an expanded Medicaid in their state will suffer if that coverage is now denied them. So, repealing the ACA might have worked on the campaign trail, but now Mr. Trump is responsible for peoples' lives. I am all for fixing the ACA so that it does work for everyone, but Mr. Trump is going to have to fight the elites in Congress.
4. The fact that you (nor the rest of us) do not have any idea what he intended to replace the ACA with should tell you something.
5. One can learn a lot about a president-elect from his choices for his transition team and his advisors. Remember that Mr. Trump does not have political experience, and that is why may people voted for him (and I understand this entirely and do not necessarily disagree). I agree with him in that DC is a "swamp" and that it should be drained. So far, he has been choosing people from the George Bush era. He is in danger of replacing the current swamp with the previous one. The swamp is filled with jackals, and they sense blood, red and naďve. They sense that Mr Trump is an empty vessel (not to mean that he is stupid, rather, he is inexperienced, which is no sin but it is fact), and I am very concerned that they will manipulate him. Remember that Mr. Trump will be the very first president that has never held elected office and has never governed. He does not (yet) have the skill set, which, again, is no sin but it is fact. His supporters voted for him because they wanted an "outsider", yet Congress remains essentially unchanged. The House and Senate leaders remain in power.
So you see, the election of Trump is only one very small piece of the puzzle. All of the people who "forgot the forgotten" are still in place, still in power, because "the forgotten" voted them back in.
If you have any questions, let me know! :thumbup;
-
I think the public is catching onto the idea of getting rid of the career politicians. POTUS was elected as a NON-Politician. This is just the beginning. In the next 8 years elections we should see many of the 'Old Guard' Politicians replaced with more of these NON-Politicians. New faces. They may be running on a party ticket but they are really new, not totally indoctrinated into following strict party guidelines.
It is going to take at least the next 8 years before we see a real change in Congress. Getting rid of the Party hardcases. Stopping so much of the greediness, and actually beginning to forge a stronger, more responsible Government.
-
If you would have watched Fox News just one night a week, you would KNOW that Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giulani were his, seems like, ONLY cheerleaders. They exonerated his thinking and cheered him on to the end. Of course he will find a place for them. They deserve it. Same for Reience Priebus, he deserves a place in the Cabinet. I don't have cable. So, I would watch CBS and then Fox at dialysis and could SEE Clearly the bias of the liberal CBS. Wow eye opener. I do watch both. CBS would say and even laugh about him even running for president and lift Hillary up on a pedestal. Fox would show Hillary's crooked side and tell Donald to quit the showboating and stick to the policies.
Now CBS is saying Trump is ALREADY lying. He is going to keep the existing condition part of Obomacare. Like that is a bad thing? He should scrap it and then act like he made it up. He is also going to keep that parents can keep their kids on their insurance until they are 50 or I mean 26.
We are talking Health Care. So just because Trumps uses the word "Insurance" he is not plagiarizing.
-
I think the public is catching onto the idea of getting rid of the career politicians. POTUS was elected as a NON-Politician. This is just the beginning. In the next 8 years elections we should see many of the 'Old Guard' Politicians replaced with more of these NON-Politicians. New faces. They may be running on a party ticket but they are really new, not totally indoctrinated into following strict party guidelines.
It is going to take at least the next 8 years before we see a real change in Congress. Getting rid of the Party hardcases. Stopping so much of the greediness, and actually beginning to forge a stronger, more responsible Government.
Getting rid of "career politicians" was one of the main planks of Trump's campaign platform, but he has named the head of the RNC as his chief of staff, so....
Voters had the chance to be rid of "career politicians" this past Tuesday, but they didn't take it. The only thing that really changed is the addition of two Democratic seats in the House and two in the Senate. Voters will have another chance in two years' time. Part of the problem is that our political landscape is so toxic that it would give anyone pause to enter the fray. Many congresspeople complain that most of their time is spent raising funds for the party, so nothing much will change unless and until we do something about how any and all elections are funded.
My concern is that if you look at the numbers, our electorate is more polarized than ever. The candidate that got the most votes did not win. The majority of people who voted did not vote for Donald Trump. Voter turnout was lower than it has been in 20 years. More worryingly, in the Confederate South and in Arizona, there were 868 fewer polling places than there were in the last election. Color mattered. The irony here is that one could argue that Donald Trump may have been right all along when he aired suspicions that the election would be rigged.
There is no mandate. There is less unity than ever. I am looking to Donald Trump to address the nation on day one with a message of unity and a promise that he will be cognizant of the concerns of the majority because we are still here.
-
Voters had the chance to be rid of "career politicians" this past Tuesday, but they didn't take it.
We need term limits. Without then, voters will not say "yes, we need to get rid of career politicians so I will get rid of my current senator/rep who has finally achieved seniority and influence and replace him/her with a freshman senator/rep who will be powerless to bring much pork home for at least a term or two since other districts will have re-elected their powerful senior senators/reps."
-
Voters had the chance to be rid of "career politicians" this past Tuesday, but they didn't take it.
We need term limits. Without then, voters will not say "yes, we need to get rid of career politicians so I will get rid of my current senator/rep who has finally achieved seniority and influence and replace him/her with a freshman senator/rep who will be powerless to bring much pork home for at least a term or two since other districts will have re-elected their powerful senior senators/reps."
Nah, we need to quit paying them..........................
-
Nah, we need to quit paying them..........................
Excellent idea. They would then go back to the private sector once they amasses enough influence to pedal that on the free market and make a killing.
-
I sure wish Obama & Hillary Clinton would come out to condemn all the violence that is taking place in protests against a perfectly legitimate & legal democratic election result to demand it to stop immediately! How tragic and sad. I really think their silence on this is absolutely shameful & speaks volumes to us abroad as to who these people really are. What a sad time for Democracy.
-
First of all, the protests are largely peaceful. And they are called for in a situation where the popular vote went to the ''loser" who beat the "winner" by approaching 2 millions votes and counting.
Second of all, do you condone the reported increase of abuse and assaults against Muslims, people of color, immigrants, women and girls, and the LGBTQ community, among other minorities? This is what the Trump people are doing. Protests are an All-American expression of the first amendment. I, for one, am happy that the public has spontaneiously risen up and is not comatose in the face of this election chicacnery (FBI, Wikileaks, Russian meddling, etc). There have been more hate crimes perpetrated by Trump followers in the last few days as there are on record for a year's time under normal circumstances. Here's a list of hate crimes http://people.com/politics/swastika-graffiti-and-build-the-wall-taunts-inside-the-racially-charged-incidents-since-trumps-election/
-
Second of all, do you condone the reported increase of abuse and assaults against Muslims, people of color, immigrants, women and girls, and the LGBTQ community, among other minorities?
We really did not have much of a fear of this when Bush was in power. Yes there were events where people were hurt because of bias but the entire government was supportive of our minorities.
Now my fear is how far this hate will expand, the FBI already tracks low violence groups like environmentalist, will they start locking up those people using anti termism laws because of perceived risk?
-
First of all, the protests are largely peaceful. And they are called for in a situation where the popular vote went to the ''loser" who beat the "winner" by approaching 2 millions votes and counting.
The problem is these people are not protesting the electoral college, but the result. If they "should" protest anything, it should be the all or nothing system used by 48 of the states. Of course, for that to change, we would have to stat with the CA and NY Democratic legislatures agreeing to give a portion of their states votes to the opposition (which is probably why it hasn't, and won't, happen). Also, note that nobody seems to be protesting "electoral college unfair", but "we don't want Trump". In my opinion, they are protesting the symptom and not the disease.
Secondarily, the rules effect the result. If every vote counted (and not just those in battleground states), we would have seen Trump campaign stops and ads in CA and MA, and Clinton visits to the midwest. As it stands, those of us in MA didn't even get the deluge of Trump/Clinton ads except when there was a market spillover from a neighboring state.
-
The problem is these people are not protesting the electoral college, but the result.
There ARE several protests mounting of the electoral college. https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19 and https://secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/national_vote_full/?bJEDobb&signup=1&cl=11086781694&v=84034/
The people in the streets are expressing shock and disbelief in the wrong that has taken place.
-
I find it interesting to watch/listen to world reaction. There is a lot of fear and disbelief around the world, particularly amongst our allies, as a result of Trump's election. It is palpable. I've had many friends all the way from Oslo to Sydney contact me to tell me that they are really frightened. There is a reason for their fear, don't you think?
Many, if not all, of the people who voted for Brexit didn't really think about the consequences for Scotland and for Northern Ireland. They didn't really care. The same is happening here. Of course people vote with their own pocketbooks and bank accounts. That's entirely fair. But there is a world beyond our shores, and that world is on edge.
People like Steve Bannon represent the far-right. That he is anywhere near the White House is troubling. Steve Bannon has no interest in anything other than the promotion of white nationalism. Those are his words. This is not me making this up. He echoes Marine LePen, Nigel Farage and that pisspot in Hungary, Viktor Orban. Protesters here are not so much protesting Trump, rather, they're protesting what he has told us he and his team represent.
There will be fear for at least the next 2 years. When people are frightened, they protest. Fear can look like anger. They're not thinking about the Electoral College. Changing the system is not going to make Trump go away by January 20, so what is the purpose in protesting they system? They're not protesting where the candidates decided to make campaign stops!
-
Trump said he is not taking a pay check. $400,000
Trump also said he wants to implement "term limits." That will be hard because it is the politician's livelihood.
:flower;
-
Since the Congressional Swamp refuses to pass funding for veterans' benefits, Trump should take his $400,000 and donate it to the Wounded Warrior Project.
-
There are a whole lot of voting Veterans out here. Any Congressman the refuses to fund Veterans Administration can count on NOT being reelected.
-
Since the Congressional Swamp refuses to pass funding for veterans' benefits, Trump should take his $400,000 and donate it to the Wounded Warrior Project.
Which won't even cover the salary of the Wounded Warrior Preisdent, but it would cover one of the 21 additional staffers making $177K to $341K.
-
Then Trump could find another vet charity to which he could give his salary.
-
GOP and Trump put deficit on back burner
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/deficit-donald-trump-republicans-231372
we will have to wait another four years to try to get our country's financial health in order...
-
I find it interesting to watch/listen to world reaction. There is a lot of fear and disbelief around the world, particularly amongst our allies, as a result of Trump's election. It is palpable. I've had many friends all the way from Oslo to Sydney contact me to tell me that they are really frightened. There is a reason for their fear, don't you think?
Moosemum, I'm sorry to be the one to burst your bubble but let me inform you that many people around the world, including that of staunch allies, are absolutely rejoicing that Donald Trump has prevailed! I can't even begin to describe to you how happy I felt when I saw the electoral college votes starting to roll in & it became obvious which way it was going to go.
The discontent and uneasiness that drove many people to vote for him is one that is keenly felt in many other countries, including my own. We are already seeing benefits of the Trump-effect locally, more attention towards the forgotten chronically unemployed and calls for restraint in the high rate of immigration infiltrating this country that has become massively unsustainable and ruinous. Donald Trump has suddenly given a voice to all those who have been hurting for a long time but have been routinely ignored by politicians for so long.
So in summary - many of us are celebrating his electoral win and feel so much more hopeful about the future as a result of it.
-
many of us are celebrating his electoral win and feel so much more hopeful about the future as a result of it.
Many of you have been scammed and "had" by this very skillful con artist. Unfortunately, ALL of us will be harmed. I would love for it to be true that Trump cares about the "little people" whose voices haven't been heard. But Donald Trump is no populist. He's a neo-fascist. He cares only about Donald Trump, money and power.
-
Well, I'm going to give him a 4 year try to make things better. Bring some jobs back so all have a chance to work. If they want to sit home on their ass and collect money from the Govt., then that is their choice. I know.... not all can work. But, the ones that can and want to.
I see the infrastructure project bringing Jobs to those who need one and Taxes coming in to pay down the deficit. It is just like our own debt. You just have to start paying down the smallest credit card and snowball to the largest.
Obama is spending HOW MUCH to make his final world tour? OMG Really? :stressed;
-
Highest tax rate going from 35% to 15% , lowest tax rate going from 10% to 12% . Personal exemption is going away, inheritance tax also going away , how many of you expect a big inheritance ?? That is just the start . Rich will get richer , poor will be poorer .Middle Class will become the lower class , and lower class will have nothing !! Just my opinion on what's happened and said so far , in less than a week .
-
Again the republicans don't have over 60 votes in the Senate so the democrats caned do to drumph the idiot what the republicans did during the 8 years of Obama. Delay,block, obstruct, everything.
-
Highest tax rate going from 35% to 15% , lowest tax rate going from 10% to 12% . Personal exemption is going away, inheritance tax also going away , how many of you expect a big inheritance ?? That is just the start . Rich will get richer , poor will be poorer .Middle Class will become the lower class , and lower class will have nothing !! Just my opinion on what's happened and said so far , in less than a week .
Plus debt will skyrocket as spending is continued and tax revenue collapses...
Again the republicans don't have over 60 votes in the Senate so the democrats caned do to drumph the idiot what the republicans did during the 8 years of Obama. Delay,block, obstruct, everything.
This hopefully will protect us from the worst, even the republicans have a hard time supporting Trump so I really hope he will have to have valid proposals to get them approved.
-
First of all, the protests are largely peaceful. And they are called for in a situation where the popular vote went to the ''loser" who beat the "winner" by approaching 2 millions votes and counting.
The problem is these people are not protesting the electoral college, but the result. If they "should" protest anything, it should be the all or nothing system used by 48 of the states. Of course, for that to change, we would have to stat with the CA and NY Democratic legislatures agreeing to give a portion of their states votes to the opposition (which is probably why it hasn't, and won't, happen). Also, note that nobody seems to be protesting "electoral college unfair", but "we don't want Trump". In my opinion, they are protesting the symptom and not the disease.
Secondarily, the rules effect the result. If every vote counted (and not just those in battleground states), we would have seen Trump campaign stops and ads in CA and MA, and Clinton visits to the midwest. As it stands, those of us in MA didn't even get the deluge of Trump/Clinton ads except when there was a market spillover from a neighboring state.
-
:welcomesign;
-
Guys, and Girls,
When Obama was voted in, I just knew the country was going straight to Hell. Never voiced my opinion tho and in fact, it has. Trump has made a lot of promises, and I for one (Two counting Rerun) am going to give him all the support I can, but not the way Obama supporters were. They thought he was the grand Deliverer. I dont feel that way about Trump, he is just a himan being,but I am willing to give him a chance. This rioting is nonsense and just another excuse to burn and pillage. Many of you are quoting things that are totally not true ( See MM, I learned to research) I am not willing or eager to disprove or research every little belch. My point is, you guys really need to simmer down and give the man a chance. The majority elected him, let them see what happens. At the very least stop doubting every little thing and try to help out instead of ripping YOUR AND MY PRESIDENT apart on a daily basis.
Peace Out
-
But Jean, the majority voted for Hillary Clinton....by almost 1.7 million votes and still counting.
Can you give us details on why you think this country has gone to hell? And before you say "trade deals", just let me remind you that trade deals reduced barriers to trade for American exports, and American companies that rely on exporting their goods and services employ people, too. But no one ever talks about that side of the equation.
So tell us more about how this country has "gone to hell". Is it because a black man became President? Is that how you knew from the beginning that the US was doomed?
You need to go back and do some more research.
I was willing to give him a chance, but then he puts names forward like Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions. I rather like Nikki Haley and think it's a shame that they're shuttling her to UN Ambassador. That' a step downward for her, and I have to wonder who advised Trump to do this.
My main concern is that since Trump is a political naif, the "swamp" will take advantage and devour him. He is already surrounding himself with the very lobbyists and swamp monsters that his supporters (and lots of people who didn't support him) wanted to see gone.
Everyone was soooooooo whipped up about Hillary Clinton's emails, but no one seems to care that Trump has not disclosed any information about his own finances and his own business ties to foreign governments. Why is that, Jean?
So I'll give Trump the same chance that you gave Obama, and I'll voice the same opinion that you did eight years ago, that this President-Elect will drive the country straight to Hell. Fair enough?
-
One of the biggest differences Trump vs. Clinton will make is the appointment of SCOTUS judges. The impact of a conservative vs. a liberal majority will be felt for years beyond the next presidential term. Many of us felt we were voting for composition of SCOTUS more than for a particular presidency.
-
The majority elected him,
I think if you "research" the latest count, you'll find that Hillary Clinton hsa won the popular vote. So, the majority elected Clinton, not Trump. Her margin is now over 2 million votes--and still counting. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/23/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-2-million-popular-vote/94339510/
It is interesting to note how unfairly apportioned the electoral votes are per state.
n average a state is awarded one electoral vote for every 565,166 people. However, Wyoming has three electoral votes and only 532,668 citizens (as of 2008 estimates). As a result each of Wyoming's three electoral votes corresponds to 177,556 people. Understood in one way, these people have 3.18 times as much clout in the Electoral College as an average American, or 318% (as listed in the pdf chart, downloadable below).
http://www.fairvote.org/population_vs_electoral_votes
This pattern can be seen throughout the electoral college. Therefore small, rural, sparsely-populated states have MORE representation than larger, densely-populated states. And the citizens of small states are disproportionately represented by electors.
This rioting is nonsense and just another excuse to burn and pillage.
Lawful protests ARE NOT riots. They are an appropriate expression of First Amendment, free speech rights. Get over it. The burning and pillaging seems to be coming entirely from the Trump supporter side.
-
One of the biggest differences Trump vs. Clinton will make is the appointment of SCOTUS judges. The impact of a conservative vs. a liberal majority will be felt for years beyond the next presidential term. Many of us felt we were voting for composition of SCOTUS more than for a particular presidency.
Exactly. And a lot of us (the majority) don't think we need a whole court filled with Scalia knockoffs. Or worse.
-
One of the biggest differences Trump vs. Clinton will make is the appointment of SCOTUS judges. The impact of a conservative vs. a liberal majority will be felt for years beyond the next presidential term. Many of us felt we were voting for composition of SCOTUS more than for a particular presidency.
But many of you have now voted for Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions and Ben Carson who will very probably be a part of that "particular presidency". You may justify your vote by saying it was "really for the Supreme Court", but your swamp is still there, untouched and as filthy as ever. You've voted for his kids and his son-in-law as part of his advisory team. You've voted for a potential Department of Education head whose agenda is to dismantle the public school systems and privatize education. You've voted for the gradual dismantling of Medicare, putting our most vulnerable citizens in the hands of corporations. You've all voted for so much more than just SCOTUS that will impact our nation for years, and not in a necessarily good way.
Anybody, please tell me why we should be happy with the likes of Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions. I really want to know what good they have to offer. Tell my why these choices will be healing balms for our nation. I don't understand, I really don't. Steve Bannon?
-
All good questions, MM. I, too, would like to hear the answers. A lot of collateral damage from electing such a loose cannon!
-
Its starting real fast , read the news , every day more drama and more unqualified people getting in the high offices,, Revamping Medicare , taking deductions away from lower income people, raising taxes on lower income people and lower income taxes for high income PeopIe . :Kit n Stik;
-
I know I am going to risk pissing a lot of people off, but here goes.....
I am a single issue voter. My idea of a fun weekend is going out to the gun range, or better yet, grabbing a pistol, rifle and shotgun for a "three gun" match. These use handguns (Clinton says the Supreme Court "got it wrong" when it declared the constitution protected the individual's right to own a handgun, and not the government's right to arm a militia); AR15s with 30 to 100 round mags (once again, and item Clinton wants to ban) and Benelli or Remington semi-auto shotguns (also on the ban list). I realize that once a right is lost, getting it back is 10x harder than protecting it. I am not worried a new court will roll back Roe v. Wade (it won't), but am concerned it will declare the second amendment unenforceable. For example, MA has declared that the 2A does not apply in this state (our state supreme court stated that the ability to get the only license that allows exercising the right is not protected by the Heller/McDonald decisions). I have seen very bad decisions by liberal justices, and Souter authored one against me after he retired from SCOTUS and sat on the first circuit court of appeals. I generally keep 5 or 6 cases before the federal courts (I am not an attorney, but I hire them), and was involved in filing one Amicus before the supremes. So, for me, the quality of the judiciary to follow the constitution as written, not on a "desired public policy" basis, is personal.
I don't think Trump will F with ESRD benefits on Medicare, and I don't think ANY administration will be able to reform the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security until it collapses under its own weight. There are too any highly motivated recipients of both SS and Medicare for much to be done - unless, of course, they come up with a way of convincing a decisive majority that "someone else, not you, will pay or get reduced benefits". In short, a Republican administration is less likely to take my SS/Medicare away than a Democratic administration is to screw with my second amendment rights.
Nobody would criticize a black for being a "single issue voter" on the issue of racial equality, so I feel morally justified in holding the same position on an issue that I value.
The bottom line is that different people have different goals and values. To some intelligent, well meaning, people, another Scalia is a nightmare. To me, it would be a breath of fresh air.
And yes, Scalia should have been autopsied. Anyone dying at home not under medical supervision who was not from a powerful family certainly would be.
-
Well stated, Simon Dog. :thumbup;
-
http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment2.html
I have no qualms about anyone being a single issue voter, even when that issue is the Second Amendment. But when we start in on reasoning like "interpreting the Constitution as it is written", well, it was hardly written concisely. It has been wide open to interpretation forever, and Simon Dog, when you state that it should not be interpreted by "desired public policy", isn't that exactly what you are doing? Those who want to keep a private arsenal will naturally desire one interpretation while those who don't want to see more kids gunned down in their primary school classrooms will naturally desire a very different interpretation.
(As an aside, a lot of people added to their arsenal when the black man was voted into office. I wonder how many more will become gun owners now that the orange man will be President. I will admit that for the first time ever, I've thought seriously about getting a permit, especially if General Flynn gets in to any Cabinet post. We all know how much he loathes having a civilian-led military, so he really worries me. I hope he will not be confirmed.
While your state made a decision you did not agree with, my state (Illinois) was the last to prohibit concealed/carry, but we were forced to comply and now have concealed/carry. That is particularly problematic in Chicago as you can well imagine. Many pro-gun advocates point to Chicago as the prime example of the failure of strict gun laws, but what they don't tell you is that we're right next door to Indiana, and guns flow easily over that border. But Chicago's problem with guns just grows so that people like you get to keep their private arsenals.
I have no problem with people whose idea of a fun weekend is going out to the gun range. I can see the appeal. Shooting is a skill and can be great fun in competition. I have no problem with hunters. I can understand why people who live out in the rural middle of nowhere would want a firearm for self defense. I can understand that, say, a woman living alone would want a firearm.
But you know all of those people you fear? The "thugs" and the "psychos", the potential terrorists and drug runners? They have the right to bear arms, too.
I don't understand how it has come to be that Americans equate gun ownership with "freedom". You get to feel free to have your arsenal, but I can't feel free from some gun-toting a-hole who might decide to get revenge for being fired by the drugstore manager by shooting up the place while I just happen to be there buying my multi-vitamins. I honestly believe that what to you feels like "freedom" feels like "profit" to those who make these weapons. They have a vested interest in lobbying for your and their interpretation of the 2A. They are selling you "freedom" with a good dose of "fear" thrown in for maximum manipulation.
I'm curious. Why do you think Scalia should have been autopsied? You know what's weird? As soon as it was announced that he had died at a private ranch in far west Texas, I knew exactly where he'd died. I felt it in my bones! It was at Cibolo Creek Ranch out in the Chinati mountains (don't know if you can really call them mountains). I've been there on holiday. It is in the middle of absolutely nowhere, and what IS there is a lot of tough terrain. The ranch itself is understatedly luxurious, but if you are an older gentleman and are not already in good health, I'm not sure what one would do there other than just spend time with other wealthy and influential gentlemen. Do you think the authorities should have gone against his family's interests?
As for those homicide guys who claim to have been so thunderstruck that there was no autopsy, don't you ever wonder if we'll ever get over this collective state of either outrage of "thunderstruck-ness"? Does it feel to you that we are collectlively all so hyperbolic? Is it because of social media, or do we now merely thrive on conspiracy theories, fake news, righteous indignation and the sheer drama of it all?
No, I'm not pissed at you, SimonDog. Are you pissed at me for feeling less safe, less FREE, because now everyone gets to have a gun and I don't even know who they are? Is the guy standing behind me at Walgreen's armed and vengeful?
-
As an interesting bit of Trivia, Trump used his power and connections to get a hens tooth ("full carry" NYC pistol permit) long before he went into politics.
I had the honor of having dinner with Alan Gura, who was responsible for the change in Illinois. Nice guy; very capable attorney; and a better American than many people born in this country.
Why do you think Scalia should have been autopsied?
It is common practice in many jurisdictions to autopsy anyone who dies outside a medical facility and not under the direct supervision of a license medical professional. This is done to rule out any possibility that someone who "peacefully passed away in their sleep" was poisoned, smothered with a pillow, etc. I'm not saying I buy into the conspiracy theories about his death, but good procedure would be to treat any "at home" death as suspicious until proven otherwise, and that means an autopsy.
Do you think the authorities should have gone against his family's interests?
I can assure you that if I die peacefully in my sleep at home, my wife (no power or political connections) will NOT have a choice in the matter. The ME will cut me up and write a report.
The "thugs" and the "psychos", the potential terrorists and drug runners? They have the right to bear arms, too.
For the most part, by the time someone becomes a terrorist/thug/gun runner, they have run up enough of a record as to being banned from even touching a firearm under 18 USC 922(g).
Guess what? Hundreds of thousands of people in MA are licensed to carry concealed guns in public (except for schools). 92% of those who are licensed to possess a handgun have the 'no restrictions' license endorsement allowing concealed carry. Guess what? I can go anywhere in the state, any time, and my chances of being shot by one of these legal gun owners is about as close to 0 as you can get.
-
I can go anywhere in the state, any time, and my chances of being shot by one of these legal gun owners is about as close to 0 as you can get.
I'm glad you are so confident.
So, what can you say to reassure people like me that I need not fear people like you? Should "good guys with a gun" wear a badge or something just so that I'll know that you're a good guy with a gun?
-
Correct, so far, the majority did vote for Hillary. However there were no irregularities found so far, so what a waste of money!!
Now then, why do I think this country has gone to hell?? First there are the homeless. I understand that some of them prefer that, however, when they are dying in the streets, and they are, that argument kind of goes down the streets. After that is a very long list of large errors.
It is insulting to be asked if I thought the country was going to hell because of a black president. Personally, I dont give a crap what color he is and I never did. The man had no experience, and never held a real job. All he did was scream about change. Do you like this change? I certainly dont. How many of us are on Social Security? This years raise is $2.00, wow, I dont know, maybe I should save it for a year and go on vacation. And it has been like that for a very long time. About 7 years now. And then, we had no fear of Muslims. Now, we do. What went wrong?
Trump may be a political naif but I seriously doubt any of the "swampers" will pull the wool over his eyes.
What his intention is with Bannon and Sessions, I have no clue, but then, I am not in politics and also dont have a genius IQ like Trump does.
Hillary Clintons E-mails concern our NATIONAL Security, Trumps tax return concerns literally nothing.
Please do give Trump the same chance I gave Obama, it would be appreciated.That would be fair enough.
PS, lets not forget our rapidly rising stock market since Trump won or, the biggest Christmas shopping ever!!!! People are happy with what is going on.
-
Jean, I'd like to see your "very long list of large errors". Could you be more specific so that I can understand why you hated Obama so much?
I would like to see more help go to the homeless. In some places in this country, there is more help than in other places. It largely depends on how much a city/state/country is willing to innovate and spend. I don't think that Trump has either the will or the way to spend money to benefit people as opposed to making profit off of them. Business people create goods for profit. To make profit, you cut costs. Housing the homeless costs money that businesspeople do not want to spend. This is where governance comes in. Can Trump govern? We have no choice but to wait and see.
You've asked a good question. Why do we fear Muslims now when we didn't 7 years ago? Well, I think we've been fearing Muslims since 9/11. I don't fear Muslims. Do you? We've been taught to fear them. Hell, we've been taught by the right wing media to hate and fear everyone who is not white and Christian. So much for living in the "Home of the Brave". People with media access are yelling at us to fear Syrian refugees but they don't tell us that it takes 2 years for them to be vetted.
Hillary Clinton's e-mails have been proven NOT to have been a threat to National Security, but of course James Comey had to go and open that question up again right before the election, just to recant only days before. Yeah, the election was rigged, so in this regard, Donald Trump was proven right.
There are many people who are concerned about the effect that Russia and Putin had on our election process, or more specifically, how they manipulated people into believing all sorts of nonsense. Why fear Muslims when it is Putin that has had the most aefect on our country? We should be fearing Russia.
Donald Trump is a national security risk. Clinton's emails have been combed through, but no one has seen any of Trump's tax returns that would tell us if he stands to profit personally from business done with, say, China. You say you are "not in politics". How very convenient. When your views are challenged, suddenly you're "not in politics". You have only beliefs, and you have those only when they suit you.
How do you know that Trump's tax return concerns literally nothing? Are you "into finance"? The worst thing is that people don't seem to care. Everyone was up in arms about Clinton's emails, only to find nothing, but when Trump says that his tax returns are nobody's business, hey, well, that's OK!!! He is held to an entirely different standard, and a very low one it is, too.
Someone with a "genius IQ" can be a very bad person and a very bad President.
President-elect Trump did not get my vote, so he is going to have to earn my trust and support. I will give him a chance to succeed. And to be fair to him, a lot of his success will depend upon a cooperative Congress which we have not seen for many years. Congress has a lot to answer for.
-
I don't fear Muslims. Do you?
I neither fear nor dislike Muslims. The blood drawing team at the transplant hospital is heavily Muslim, as is a checkout clerk at the local supermarket. All do their job nicely, and I feel very comfortable having the woman in traditional headdress draw my blood (to the extent one can feel comfortable during that process).
BUT.... I also realize that while the chances of any given 20 to 30 year old Muslim male being a terrorist is a small fraction of a percent, I also realize that the chances are much greater than that of a 20 to 30 year old US born non-Muslim being of the terrorist persuasion. This country is so afraid of profiling that we are pretty much required to deny that reality else be labeled xenophobic or racist.
So, what can you say to reassure people like me that I need not fear people like you?
Well, for starters look in the paper for any big city and read about the shootings If the person has a carry license, this will generally be mentioned - it hardly ever is. The incidence of stranger on stranger crime by concealed carry permit holders is pretty much nil. Chicago is a great example - until Alan Gura did his thing, only police, Alderman (funny how laws only apply to the little people) and persons who registered a gun back in the 80's could possess a handgun in Chicago. Now, anyone with a clean record can get a carry license. Guess what? Shooting are still happening, but not by the background checked persons with licenses.
You will never have the occasion to fear me because I believe a gentlemen keeps certain things in his pants in public, and that includes one's defensive sidearm.
-
I too would like to see my " very long list of large errors," could you point it out to me please. As I said to you before, it is insulting to me that you are constantly saying I hated Obama. Nowhere have I made that statement, yet you keep bringing it up. the man is just a total waste of space as far as I am concerned.
As for Muslims, my husband and I do business with some of them and they are lovely people, however, the radical muslims, you know, the head removing ones, I am afraid of them and you should be too. No one had to teach me anything once I saw the picture of the dangling head. Trump does profit with China, they bought one of his apartments. Putin is not stupid enough to threaten us, he would however threaten other smaller countries. Because he is, basically, a bully.
Oh and yes, I did notice you did not mention the very low raises in social security but did not mention that. No argument?
I am a normal run of the mill person, retired thank you. But at one time I was in finance. You once again, are being rude to me by saying I change my beliefs when it suits me. You dont talk to Simon Dog like that, or Charlie. You are just an angry loser and cant handle it that Trump won this election. You are some how under the impression that your words are the final say. Sorry Sweetie, but they are not and you don't "challenge " me one little bit. I dont have to be in politics or finance to have an opinion or to research facts.
-
After that is a very long list of large errors.
Jean, this is your quote. You say you're waiting for that long list. So am I.
Spending on Social Security is determined by Congress, not by the President. Direct your ire at the Swamp. I would like to see higher benefits, but Paul Ryan wants to privatize it along with Medicare. Spending more on these programs is NOT what the GOP wants to do.
Perhaps "hate" is the wrong word. You have disdain for Obama. Fair enough. I have disdain for Trump.
Oh, come on. You do tend to sidestep questions when pushed for a straight answer, and you do tend to lash out and call people "rude". This is exactly what Trump does.
Simon Dog and Charlie at least answer my questions with something more than "You're being mean to me."
Yes, I am afraid of Muslims who are "the head removing ones". So are Muslims. Other Muslims have been the most frequent targets of ISIS and other terror groups.
If I thought I had the final say in everything, I wouldn't bother asking questions. I'm interested in not only what people believe but also WHY they believe as they do.
You're right. You don't have to be in politics or finance to have an opinion or to research facts, but I can't see where you DO research facts. And it is apparent that I DO challenge you, so if that makes you uncomfortable, I'll stop. I am not interested in making anyone uncomfortable. In fact, that's exactly what I DON'T want because people who feel threatened won't give straight answers, and that's boring.
So, I promise not to ask you anything else on this topic. Is that OK with you?
-
I am afraid of Muslims who are "the head removing ones".
I'm afraid of the "head-removing" Muslims, too. But I'm even more afraid of the swastika-bearing, sig heil-shouting white supremacists who have been given the go ahead by Trump, Bannon, et al. They have been emboldened and normalized and will wreak havoc on this country. They probably won't bother YOU--if you're white and Christian. But it you're not, then lord help you. Thanks, Trump enablers. Nice work. :sarcasm;
-
BUT.... I also realize that while the chances of any given 20 to 30 year old Muslim male being a terrorist is a small fraction of a percent, I also realize that the chances are much greater than that of a 20 to 30 year old US born non-Muslim being of the terrorist persuasion. This country is so afraid of profiling that we are pretty much required to deny that reality else be labeled xenophobic or racist.
Statistically, there is good reason to fear ANY 20 to 30 year old male. Sexual assaults of women in the military and on college campuses, not to mention assaults in the workplace, concern me more than do terrorists and are so much more common. But no one seems to care.
This is not a rhetorical question as I am interested to hear what you think. Again, statistically, do you think we have more to fear from a Muslim terrorist (say, like the Boston Marathon bombers) than we do from a Dylan Roof type domestic terrorist?
-
For starters:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html (Homegrown Extremists Tied to Deadlier Toll Than Jihadists in U.S. Since 9/11)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/terrorism-threat/396749/ (Deadly American Extremism: More White Than Muslim)
http://www.mintpressnews.com/white-americans-are-the-biggest-terror-threat-in-the-united-states/211608/ (White Americans Are The Biggest Terror Threat In The United States)
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html (RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS ARE A BIGGER THREAT TO AMERICA THAN ISIS)
-
Statistically, there is good reason to fear ANY 20 to 30 year old male. Sexual assaults of women in the military and on college campuses, not to mention assaults in the workplace, concern me more than do terrorists and are so much more common. But no one seems to care.
This is not a rhetorical question as I am interested to hear what you think. Again, statistically, do you think we have more to fear from a Muslim terrorist (say, like the Boston Marathon bombers) than we do from a Dylan Roof type domestic terrorist?
According to Simon Dog:
1. The chances a 20-30 year male of any color or religion will commit a sexual assault are greater than the chances of a terrorist attack.
2. The risk of a domestic non-Muslim terrorist attack is hard to compare with the risk of Muslim attack. Accept arguendo that the domestic extremist risk is greater.
3. BUT, the percent of Muslims is small. The percentage of terrorist attacks by Muslims, on a per-capita basis, is FAR greater than the attacks by non-Muslims. That is a statistical fact.
People tend to offer #2 as if it rebuts #3. It does not.
-
I am more afraid of Donald Trump and his " policies " than any other person no matter what or who they are!!!!!!!!!'
-
I hate to assume anything as we all know what that means, however, do you guys know how many proven Isis training camps are in the US?? Google it and I hope you are sitting down when you read it.
As for you MM, I am no longer interested in arguing with you, and our conversations are discontinued as far as I am concerned. It is one thing to argue facts and yet another to add in the personal insults. That is not a discussion, that is a fight. I had the opportunity to have a private chat today with one of our mods and was told that if I responded to you the way I would like to, I would be banned, so that is not going to happen. So, have a nice life and I hope your kidney is okay, I sincerely do.
sp mod Cas
-
As for you MM, I am no longer interested in arguing with you, and our conversations are discontinued as far as I am concerned. It is one thing to argue facts and yet another to add in the personal insults. That is not a discussion, that is a fight. I had the opportunity to have a private chat today with one of our mods and was told that if I responded to you the way I would like to, I would be banned, so that is not going to happen. So, have a nice life and I hope your kidney is okay, I sincerely do,
sp mod Cas
Jean, I am truly dismayed that you felt it necessary to have a private chat with the mods about me and that you felt so profoundly insulted. So, instead of privately saying anything to anyone, I publically apologize to you here on this forum in front of all IHDers. I am very sorry that I made you feel so bad that you felt like you had to approach a moderator. You are a very nice lady who is in the same boat as the rest of us, and I am very sorry if I added to any burden that you may carry as a result of having to live with CKD.
On the other hand, I AM glad that you took steps to prevent yourself from being banned!! I'd hate to see that happen! So maybe approaching a mod was a good way to let off steam! I personally would much prefer you remain the important part of IHD that you are.
I appreciate your kind support regarding my kidney. It was very thoughtful of you to include such considerate words.
I will see you on the other forums!!
I hope you have a really nice day!
Edited to add: Jean, I'm not an "angry loser". I'm frightened. I'm really frightened by what this man and the people he picks for prominent positions within his administration might do. Trump just really scares me. That's all.
-
3. BUT, the percent of Muslims is small. The percentage of terrorist attacks by Muslims, on a per-capita basis, is FAR greater than the attacks by non-Muslims. That is a statistical fact.
Again, a serious question...What kind of action, if any, do you think this statistical fact, should lead us to take?
-
I have a question for those of you who have an opinion. What do you think of the Romney/Giuliani schism within the GOP regarding Trump's appointment for Sec. of State? Which of these two men would you like to see Trump choose, and why?
-
I would prefer Romney over Giuliani any day (not that I like Romney either). Rudy has jumped the shark and I actually think he is showing signs of dementia (not to mention he long history with the Mob). I actually think Trump is just playing with Romney and has no intention of choosing him. He wants to tantalize him and force him to apologize for comments he made earlier before publicly rejecting him.
-
I actually think Trump is just playing with Romney and has no intention of choosing him. He wants to tantalize him and force him to apologize for comments he made earlier before publicly rejecting him.
My husband said exactly the same thing. That had not occurred to me. I really hope that's not true. I don't like it when someone sets out to publically humiliate an opponent. I really hope that's not what is going on.
-
Ding Ding Ding Ding.... we actually agree on something.
I think Trump is just dicking Romney around.
-
Again, a serious question...What kind of action, if any, do you think this statistical fact, should lead us to take?
This is a simple question with a complex answer. The Israelis have answered by giving Muslims greater scrutiny at airports than elderly Jewish grandmothers.
The answer in the US may be 'nothing', or it could be 'monitor Catholics and Jews with the same level of intensity to prove we are treating everyone equally' (which is how the US handles things at airports). If the US did not admit and naturalize Somalis, we would not have today's disaster at Ohio State.
I believe Trump is on the right track with banning immigration from countries that have a tendency towards religious incited terrorism. I am not convinced the constitution requires we treat non-citizens outside the country equally.
The latest case was a permanent resident immigrant from Somalia (Abdul Rasik Ali Artan) who attacked a bunch of people at Ohio State today. Would profiling Somali immigrants have saved those victims? Were they sacrificed on the altar of equality? CNN reports that officials are not releasing the name (but have apparently obtained it from other sources). Is this being done in the name of political correctness? Curiously, the cop who took down this attacker is named Horujko, so we probably have a probable immigrant, or immigrant descendant, aspect to this story.
But, as I said earlier, the first step is accepting statistical facts and not pretending they don't exist by responding to the much higher per-capita risks Muslim immigrants pose with true, but irrelevant, responses like "we have more danger from domestic threats".
-
But, as I said earlier, the first step is accepting statistical facts and not pretending they don't exist by responding to the much higher per-capita risks Muslim immigrants pose with true, but irrelevant, responses like "we have more danger from domestic threats".
I don't see any evidence that our security forces (to use an admittedly generic term) are ignoring the statistical fact that there is a higher per-capita risk.
-
I don't see any evidence that our security forces (to use an admittedly generic term) are ignoring the statistical fact that there is a higher per-capita risk.
There would be a few less sliced people on Ohio if the US govt told Abdul: "Sorry, you are from a region and religion with a statistically higher than average risk of terrorism. You visa/permanent resident application is denied."
-
In the same vein, you could say, "Sorry, you're a man and you're statistically more likely to kill and rape. You may not own a gun."
Or,
"Sorry, you're wearing shorts that depict a Confederate Flag, and you're statistically more likely to shoot black people. You may not own a gun". There would be fewer murdered churchgoers in S. Carolina.
See, this is the concern. It's easy to create fear and thus take away people's lawful rights.
How do we spot people who may become self-radicalized, whether they be Muslim or a white nationalist? And what do we do with families from such regions who are fleeing the very types of men that you yourself fear?
I'm sure you consider yourself to be a reasonable man and a responsible gun owner. But how are we to know if something were to break in your mind, and then you decide to go on some rampage? Men like you are statistically more likely to do others harm. What do we do to keep ourselves safe from you?
-
Next question for you all, again about a possible appointment to Secretary of State.
This time, the candidate may be David Petraeus.
We all know that Hillary Clinton's emails were the most important issue this country has ever faced. :sarcasm; She was investigated by the FBI, and no matter what James Comey had to say on the matter, Trump and the Republicans were not satisfied. They called for her to be locked up despite there being no findings of any worth.
Fast forward to now as David Petraeus is being considered.
He pleaded guilty to knowingly sharing classified information after lying about it to the government.
Is he fit to be Sec. of State in your opinion? Do you think Congress will approve his nomination, assuming he is Trump's pick?
-
... I still keep my fingers crossed that everything turns out alright after all this turmoil ...
,... but ... one song comes to mind all the same :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6_jA_ZlN84
-
Fast forward to now as David Petraeus is being considered. He pleaded guilty to knowingly sharing classified information after lying about it to the government.
Is he fit to be Sec. of State in your opinion? Do you think Congress will approve his nomination, assuming he is Trump's pick?
He would be approved. Because he's a republican and they are not held to the same standards as the other side. And the current congress is full of hypocrites. And he's not Hillary and they don't suffer from Petraeus Derangement Syndrome. Even tho he actually betrayed the nation (to his lover, no less) and Hillary did no such thing.
I think all the lousy selections being made reflect how very shallow a bench we have to draw from.
-
Is Donald Trump safe from this nonsense about a recount? I was alarmed when I first heard of this & have had a friend try to explain to me that it may be possible for Hillary to 'win' (even though she's lost). How can this be true?
Every US President has won the electoral college vote and there have been 4 previous instances of an elected President who has not won the popular vote. Is it true that many undocumented illegal migrants voted in the election for Clinton?
When will this uncertainty be well and truly over? We're still celebrating Trump's win and we are witnessing already so many positive changes in the wake of his victory.
-
Oh my God.
No, it is not true that "many undocumented illegal immigrants" voted in the election. Donald Trump lied, and you bought it. Oh my God.
No, Hillary Clinton is not going to end up winning the election. It was Jill Stein who has asked for a recount only in certain states. She has raised the money for it, and calling for a recount in the states that allow it is fine. The states where she has asked for a recount are always prepared for such an eventuality.
Athena, please please please please make a list of the "so many" positive changes you have already witnessed. Positive policy changes, please, not just "oh, we are so happy".
Do us a favour, OK? Do some research on the following people:
Steve Bannon
Jeff Sessions
David Petraeus
Rudy Giuliani
After you've learned a bit more, come back and tell us what you think.
Thank you!
-
Not only did Petraeus betray the country by "sharing" classified emails with his lover, but another word: Bengazi, Bengazi, Bengazi!
What is often "forgotten" is that Petraeus was head of the CIA during Bengazi. But GOP had zero interest in blaming Petraeus for how he handled his covert operations there. Not when they could try and pin it on Obama before the 2012 election.
That didn't work. …so by Nov 2012 every GOP senator and congressperson knew Benghazi was a covert CIA operation under the direction of Gen Petraeus who had dozens of his agents and operatives on the ground there before, during, and after the attack. But….they also know that a White House is not going to give up its CIA under any circumstance and it would take over a decade for any relevant documents to be revealed, if at all.
Shift blame to Sec of State Clinton and the State Dept. And in her 11 hour inquisition about Bengazi Clinton couldn't point her finger at Petraeus and CIA or she would be betraying state secrets. Nice deal.
Attack her on this for the next four years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-libya-cia-idUSBRE8A102T20121102
---------------------------
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204712904578092853621061838
CIA Takes Heat for Role in Libya
When the bodies of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans killed in Benghazi, Libya, arrived at Andrews Air Force Base after the Sept. 11 attack, they were greeted by the president, the vice president and the secretaries of state and defense. Conspicuously absent was CIA Director David Petraeus.
Officials close to Mr. Petraeus say he stayed away in an effort to conceal the agency's role in collecting intelligence and providing security in Benghazi. Two of the four men who died that day, Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty, were former Navy SEAL commandos who were publicly identified as State Department contract security officers, but who actually worked as Central Intelligence Agency contractors, U.S. officials say.
The U.S. effort in Benghazi was at its heart a CIA operation, according to officials briefed on the intelligence. Of the more than 30 American officials evacuated from Benghazi following the deadly assault, only seven worked for the State Department. Nearly all the rest worked for the CIA, under diplomatic cover, which was a principal purpose of the consulate, these officials said.
….
Nearly eight weeks after the attacks, a complete accounting hasn't emerged in public view. The brunt of the public criticism for security lapses has so far been directed at the State Department, rather than the CIA, which, by design, operates largely in the shadows. Critics in Congress say the CIA has used secrecy in part to shield itself from blame—a charge officials close to the agency deny.
This account of the CIA presence in Benghazi sheds new light on the events, and how the essentially covert nature of the U.S. operations there created confusion. Congressional investigators say it appears that the CIA and State Department weren't on the same page about their respective roles on security, underlining the rift between agencies over taking responsibility and raising questions about whether the security arrangement in Benghazi was flawed.
The CIA's secret role helps explain why security appeared inadequate at the U.S. diplomatic facility. State Department officials believed that responsibility was set to be shouldered in part by CIA personnel in the city through a series of secret agreements that even some officials in Washington didn't know about.
>>>>>
-
Positive changes? Name one ! Revamping Medicare will not be helpful to most of us with ESRD . How does lowering income tax on the highest incomes and raising taxes on the lower income helpful to us , unless you are in the top income earners, if you are, I don't think you would be even on this site . His picks for his cabinet are going to get us in a war , not to mention his obnoxious tweets he sends every time someone says or does something he doesn't like. In my honest opinion he is immature and narsasistic! God help us all !!!!
-
No, it is not true that "many undocumented illegal immigrants" voted in the election. Donald Trump lied, and you bought it. Oh my God.
It is possible that "some to many" illegal immigrants voted in this election. Two states that I know of - California and Vermont - have allowed undocumented persons to get Driver's Licenses for a couple years now. Now us, US Citizens, who have had licenses for years have to jump through numerous hoops to get a "Federal License" (allows us to get on airplanes, etc), while others can get just a state license without it. And those, like my husband, who have misplaced their SS card are screwed because they can't get a Federal DL without it and they can't get a replacement SS card without a valid Federal ID.
This year, Vermont changed to automatically registering voters when they got their Driver's Licenses unless you opt out. Not sure if it was this year or before with California. So now we have illegal immigrants on the voter rolls. Did they vote? Maybe, maybe not. But they shouldn't be able to make political decisions for a country they aren't a citizen of!
*Disclaimer - I did not vote for either Clinton or Trump. And I fully support legal immigration - my husband is a first-gen American; his father immigrated as a teen and all four of his grandparents immigrated too.
-
K&S, you've got that right. Benghazi was not an embassy, nor was it a consulate. It was a CIA outpost, and it was the responsibility of Petraeus, but Congress got people to believe it was Clinton's fault, all while Petraeus was divulging national security secrets to his lady love. He and Trump are both pervs.
Athena, I am guessing that you live in an English speaking country which would put you in the UK, Australia or Canada, all of which have some sort of National Health Service. So while you are entitled to your opinion, I'm going to disregard it because you are not going to have to endure whatever kind of healthcare system Tom Price might push us into (or out of, more likely). Google him. Vouchers for all!!! yay!
KatieV, no, millions of illegal immigrants did not vote. C'mon. Since you specifically mention Vermont, here's the link to their DMV website that explains the difference between what you have to do to get a license and what you have to do to register to vote. Remember, residency is not the same as citizenship.
http://www.dmv.org/vt-vermont/voter-registration.php
-
If you hated Obama for the last 8 years realize People like me will hate the current idiot elect with equal fervor. I personally will show Drumph the idiot as much respect as he showed Obama during his 8 years. It was bad enough when the morons elected George Bush the lesser for 2 terms well they are letting the congenital idiots have their president this term. The only hope of any fairness (realize drumph the idiot is now talking about lowering his and his friends tax bracket but raising it on the people who elected him) is that the 48 Democratic Senators can act as a firewall and stop most of the crap this idiot is spewing about future plans. Already his team is hinting about major Medicare cuts and changes. Well that sorts out my Medicare problem since I have been forced on to Medicare at 30 months, I probably don't have any insurance to fall back on and I will be dead. Solves my Drumph the Idiot problem but if the Democrats can't stop this insanity then when I die on my grave stone "Born 1951, Died 201X. Killed by the Republicans and their leader Donald "Drumph the Idiot" Trump"
-
K&S, you've got that right. Benghazi was not an embassy, nor was it a consulate.
What I really don't understand is why they didn't have a few Dillon Aero miniguns mounted to the roof, a few trained Marines to operate them, boatloads of ammo, and a loudspeaker system to give plenty of warning to peaceful religious representatives gathering in protest. With readily available hardware (made by a really great guy with one kidney who recently died .... obligatory tie-in), they could have easily had complete area denial to the grounds.
-
You are so right Mr Murphy , Trump never said a word about messing with Medicare in his campaign , now he has big plans to overhaul it ? If this would of been said earlier he would not have won !! Seniors all love their Medicare and so do I ! Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !
-
Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !
Although any contact with your congress critter is good, picking up the phone and calling their local office is the most powerful way to lodge your opinions. You will speak to a aide, but your call will be relayed and will count much more than a letter (or heaven forbid, an email).
-
Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !
Although any contact with your congress critter is good, picking up the phone and calling their local office is the most powerful way to lodge your opinions. You will speak to a aide, but your call will be relayed and will count much more than a letter (or heaven forbid, an email).
On a controversial issue with lots of calls, they just keep tick marks on each side - and your call is very important so you side has the most marks when the report is given to the aparatachik.
-
Whew! That was close!
When I think of how close we actually came to having a president who once used a private email server--like her predecessors-- I'm like Whew! thank goodness we got the guy who is going to bust unions, take away our healthcare, fleece the treasury and give all our secrets to Russia. Not to mention tweet us into war--before he's even installed.
Wow! We dodged a bullet....
:sarcasm;
-
I am an immigrant to America. Green Card in 1984 and finally decided to naturalize in 1996. I have lived in a number of different countries and in my humble opinion none of them compare to the good old USA. I've lived here through a lot of turmoil in those 32 years but what has kept my faith up in knowing I live in the best country in the world is the strength and determination of the American people. Ever since this recent election I have felt anxious and down. Not so much because Trump won but more because I have never sensed such a deep division in America. I've seen friends turn on one another because of political beliefs and even end their friendships. I feel bad for those that are afraid of what the future will bring and I am afraid myself. Change can be tough and scary. In the end my faith still lies in the American people to do the right thing. If this train goes off the track the American voter will respond like they have before and demand change through their votes. I am worried but hopeful and I pray for the best for this great country and its great people.
-
From the mouth of the Orange one (in 2012):
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-2012-election-tweetstorm-resurfaces-popular-electoral/story?id=43431536
"He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!" (Trump, 2012)
"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."
"“We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!”
“Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”
“This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!”
“Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.”
I agree. Out in the street--with pitchforks.
-
What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?
Shaks24, your sentiments are very nice, but the fact remains that the United States will soon have a president who was elected by a minority of voters. More people either voted for Hillary Clinton, voted for another candidate or did not vote at all.
The President-Elect, with the consent of Congress, might very well militarize his Cabinet. This is contrary to the American Constitution's spirit of having the military under citizen control. To be fair, it seems like he is launching several trial balloons, and this is a good thing. We cannot have a general who pled guilty to releasing security secrets as our new Secretary of Defense or State.
We cannot have Goldman Sachs operatives as Secretary of the Treasury.
These are characteristics of African dictatorships.
We have fooled ourselves into thinking that we are somehow special, but we are not. We have fooled ourselves into thinking that we are brave, but we are scared of bringing in a few thousand Syrian refugees who have suffered far more from ISIS and their brutality than we could possibly imagine. We are paranoid, believing that behind every lamppost there is some terrorist waiting to get us.
We have fooled ourselves into believing that we are a Christian and therefore compassionate nation, but we have voted in a man who wants to name a person to the position of HUD secretary who has openly admitted that he has no experience in this regard. This is the department responsible for housing some of our most vulnerable citizens.
We have fallen into believing that this man is going to save us from all of those nasty elites and rich guys who have created such inequality in our "exceptional" nation. Name one potential cabinet nominee who is neither an elite nor a rich guy. Name just one.
We have forgotten that the success of a democracy depends upon the education of the electorate. Go and look at the goals and values of the woman Trump has named as his nominee for education secretary. We now get our information from Russian internet trolls who insist Clinton has Parkinson's, and we believe it.
Even here on this forum, we get posters who insist that there is dancing in the street all over the world who are relishing a Trump victory and who regale us with tales of all of the good things that have already happened in their country because of the result of this election. These are lies.
We have trumpeted our demand for transparency, but while one candidate is raked over the coals by Congress and the FBI, our president elect tells us that his business practices and his financial position is "none of your business", and we let him off free. We have abdicated as a people. We demand nothing more than a father figure who has promised to single-handedly make everything OK.
-
What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?
Nothing more than a PR stunt. It just doesn't scale. We will not save millions of jobs by having El Presidente individually negotiate each batch of 800.
-
What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?
Nothing more than a PR stunt. It just doesn't scale. We will not save millions of jobs by having El Presidente individually negotiate each batch of 800.
I've had a little bit of a debate about the significance of this deal with a friend. It's interesting. My view is that this sends an important new market signal to the global business community & may simply be a taste of what's to come on a larger scale. For the past few decades, we've had massive economic deregulation and the 'freeing' of markets that has seen many companies just go offshore to countries with the cheapest labour force & cost of production. This was supposed to increase the net wealth of the global economy. In return for this wide scale loss of jobs, we received a massive influx of cheap Asian products that has freed up our resources to produce more sophisticated manufactured products & services. This sounded like a good economic theory about 30 years ago. However over time this has not been a good economic deal for the domestic economy in many ways. Trump has simply advised the Carrier board of directors that this offshoring behaviour in future will lead to loss of government revenue (which they do factor in their strategic business decision-making). This is not in my opinion a new central planning dictatorial type of message but simply a new market goalpost shift that is long overdue. (Needless to say, my friend doesn't quite agree with this & thinks it's too radical a view! :rofl;).
-
I am an immigrant to America. Green Card in 1984 and finally decided to naturalize in 1996. I have lived in a number of different countries and in my humble opinion none of them compare to the good old USA. I've lived here through a lot of turmoil in those 32 years but what has kept my faith up in knowing I live in the best country in the world is the strength and determination of the American people. Ever since this recent election I have felt anxious and down. Not so much because Trump won but more because I have never sensed such a deep division in America. I've seen friends turn on one another because of political beliefs and even end their friendships. I feel bad for those that are afraid of what the future will bring and I am afraid myself. Change can be tough and scary. In the end my faith still lies in the American people to do the right thing. If this train goes off the track the American voter will respond like they have before and demand change through their votes. I am worried but hopeful and I pray for the best for this great country and its great people.
Things tend to get clouded with the media bias. If you are a legal immigrant like YOU are. Do not worry. You are an American. If you are here illegally and have committed crimes you better be afraid, because you took advantage of a good thing and you need to go. If you are here illegally and have a clean record you may have a chance to become legal. That is how I see it. But, the WALL will be built to stop the blood loss from Mexico and South America.
:thumbup;
-
Rerun, I don't think Shak is expressing worry about his own legal status, rather, he is expressing anxiety about how Trump has so divided this nation.
-
Rerun, I don't think Shak is expressing worry about his own legal status, rather, he is expressing anxiety about how Trump has so divided this nation.
Obama divided the nation. Let's get that straight.
-
Obama divided the nation. Let's get that straight.
No. Let's really get this straight.. You racists and white supremacists divided this nation. And your man, Trump, with his unrelenting Birtherism played a big role in demeaning a man who happened to be a very decent president (not perfect) of mixed race. People are responsible for HOW they REACT to events and that's how your team CHOSE to REACT. Besides this, there are many other things that divide our nation besides being a loose confederation of unrelated states with different histories and different characters.
-
The Republicans refused for 8 years to treat Obama as President, almost every norm of behavior was broken by the bigots in the Republican Party. From yelling out he was a liar during the State of the Nation speech to blocking a majority of his nominations the republicans waged war against the presidency of Obama. Now that the right of the country bought the line of a snake oil salesman and made the Buffoons president you expect four years of glorious republican suppression. What you will get is 4 years of political war that will make the last 8 look like a snowball fight. Except for nominations and budget reconciliations the Democrats have enough votes to road block all other legislation in the senate. Four years of every comedian in the US land possibly the world making fun of "Drumph the Idiot" . Respect is earned and the respect shown the office of the President for the La's two centuries is gone, killed by the Current Moron elect treatment of the last president. The new "Liar in Chief" will spend the next 4 years slowly going crazy as SNL uses him as a dunce prop in every show. He's so stupid he think that SNL owes him equal time. I have never made fun of any other president even the second Bush. I thought most of his actions moronic but since he was President I at least always referred to him with respect during his Presidency, Drumph the Idiot should be treated the same way he treated Obama. It will not be enough to point out the Emperor has no close, but that the Emperor has no brain or morals.
sp mod Cas
-
How EXACTLY did Obama divide this nation?
Obama was elected TWICE by campaigning on the idea of bi-partisanship. Despite the electorate TWICE showing their support for this idea and despite the public's agreement that Congress was possibly the worst performing elected body this nation has ever seen, Congress persisted on blocking everything that President Obama wanted to do. Even some Democrats admonished him for being too soft on the GOP and for being too conciliatory. How many times do I have to say that the likes of Mitch McConnell, the man who declared that his goal was to make Obama a one term president, are the true architects of this division?
But no. Some right wing sites bang on and on about how President Obama single handedly broke our country, and people believe it without a second thought.
But I will concede that I made an error in stating that Trump has divided the nation. No, it was already divided, and Trump has now seized his opportunity. It has been Congress, Fox News and the Alex Jones type people who have divided this nation along with the help of those who are seeking to privatize all federal services like healthcare and education.
So, there are people who feel they've been left behind? And they are angry? How are they feeling now that Trump has populated his cabinet choices with the very people who have stripped the nation economically? You know those damned elitists and billionaires who are getting rich off the forgotten people? Well, guess what. They're going to be in the Cabinet.
Please. Someone, anyone, please give me a list of 5 ways in which President Obama has divided this nation all by himself. (Something other than "He's a secret Muslim." or "He wasn't born here." or "He's not actually a human.")
In the popular vote, Clinton leads now by over 2,600,000 votes. So,
1. When Trump says he won by "a landslide", he is lying.
2. When Trump says 3m illegal immigrants voted for Clinton, thus explaining this popular vote result, he is lying.
But no one cares, do they?
sp mod Cas
-
Despite the fact that Trump is not a Christian, he should still be thanking God every day that President Obama has enough grace and love for this nation that he is actually willing to speak to and offer guidance to him during this transition period. That Obama will even consent to be in the same room with Trump is a miracle. Oh, but I forgot. Obama hates white people, and he hates America, so this is all probably some sort of plot to get back at Trump. Yes, that must be it.
-
When Trump says he won by "a landslide", he is lying.
1. He won by a landslide according to rules of the election
2. We do not know how he would have done in a popular vote election. If the election were popular vote, campaigning strategy on both sides would have been different (for example, CA, MA, NY and TX would not have been ignored in the campaigning). Trump may have still lost the popular vote under a popular vote rule, but we will never know.
The result is the winners think he was elected fairly and the losers do not. If Clinton had won the electoral but lost the popular, the roles of those two camps would be reversed, and existing opinions inverted.
As to bipartisanship - all too often it means "the minority side will go along with the winner" - as in "elections have consequences". No difference there no matter who wins.
-
If the losers went along with the winners Obama would have had a easier time during his tenure, I believe Trump won, mainly by lieing hid butt off, and I do think it's time for payback for the last 8 years of disrespect and lies by the republican right. Just look at the case of the poor fool that believed the lies from the alt right web about Hilary involved sex trade at some pizza joint,. The fool believed this trash and shot up the pizza place with a AR-15. My hope is that between the Senate Democrats SNL Trump is made miserable enough ro resign.
-
Well, it's now official.
Russian hackers and Putin personally interfered in our election in order to ensure that Trump was elected.
Oh. My. God.
I never thought I'd see the day when a foreign hostile nation would successfully rig our election.
-
If ever there were grounds for an election do-over, this is it. Now, if only they can find Trump's or one of his team's fingerprints on the hack, that would be curtains. Here's hoping.
-
Let's remember what was uncovered? Lies and corruptness. We should be glad the truth was uncovered.
-
If ever there were grounds for an election do-over, this is it. Now, if only they can find Trump's or one of his team's fingerprints on the hack, that would be curtains. Here's hoping.
Not a pro-Trump comment, but an observation of the legal system. Other than recounts, there is no provision in law for a re-do of an election even if one side is caught cheating. Under the law, I don't think finding a Trump operative's fingerprint in the hack would bring anything except criminal prosecution of that person.
Recounts are dirty business. The Democrats only need look to the Bush/Gore election where the supremes vote on the non-political merits of the Florida case and then just happened to vote along party lines. The Republicans can look at the Washington governor's election where the courts supported recounts (3 of them), ordering them stopped as soon as they got a count where the Democrat won.
The sad reality is that in politics, morality and fair play are irrelevant ... the only thing that matters in the end is who wins.
-
But Simon Dog, there is the recourse of impeachment.
This is an unprecedented circumstance. Morality and fair play may be non-existent in politics, but that doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and declare that foreign meddling happens, and oh well, so who cares, because all that matters is who wins. That's un-American and unconstitutional.
Here's the irony. Trump worked hard to invalidate Obama's presidency. Now, Trump won the presidency with a minority of the electorate's votes, with the lowest approval rating of any President elect in this nation's history and with the possible help of the dictator of an adversarial nation.
Trump's presidency is invalid in the minds of many people before he ever takes the Oath. The "legal system" is beside the point.
-
But Simon Dog, there is the recourse of impeachment.
True, but irrelevant with a R majority in house and senate. The Republicans cheapened the concept of impeachment when they used it to go after Bill Clinton for political rather than treasonous to the country reasons. It's been denigrated from a tool for criminal acts to just another political instrumentality.
so who cares, because all that matters is who wins. That's un-American and unconstitutional
Read The Prince by Machiavelli. He explains it all nicely. When you are done, read Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinski. The first has been described as a book discussing how the haves work to keep what the get and take more, and the later a book about how the have nots can work to take it from the haves. What they have in common is they both deal with "how things actually work", not an abstract sense of fair play (they both consider that irrelevant).
-
so who cares, because all that matters is who wins. That's un-American and unconstitutional
quote Simon Dog: Read The Prince by Machiavelli. He explains it all nicely. When you are done, read Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinski. The first has been described as a book discussing how the haves work to keep what the get and take more, and the later a book about how the have nots can work to take it from the haves. What they have in common is they both deal with "how things actually work", not an abstract sense of fair play (they both consider that irrelevant).
[/quote]
This is from another good book "Barack Obama's Rules For Revolution The Alinsky Model written by David Horowitz: (from page 22) "As an organizer I start from the world as it is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be -it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be. That means working in the system."
And similarly, from Michelle Obama's speech at the Democratic convention in 2008: "And Barack stood up that day and he said spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about the world as it should be."
Both Obama and Hillary are Alinsky-ites.
-
Remember the Leftist organization ACORN and how they were convicted of election fraud? :rofl; See page 33 of "Barack Obama's Rules For Revolution The Alinsky Model". They had contempt for the election process because they didn't believe in the electoral system as it is "constituted in a capitalist democracy". oops.... :clap;
-
Remember the Leftist organization ACORN and how they were convicted of election fraud? :rofl; See page 33 of "Barack Obama's Rules For Revolution The Alinsky Model". They had contempt for the election process because they didn't believe in the electoral system as it is "constituted in a capitalist democracy". oops.... :clap;
Each side has a sense of morality and fair play only when protesting the actions of the other side and will lie through it's teeth until caught (for example, the Donna Braizle pre-briefing of Clinton on orchestrated town meeting questions ... something she directly denied until proof surfaced). I do not doubt that the R's would resort to similar chicanery given the opportunity.
-
Let's remember what was uncovered? Lies and corruptness. We should be glad the truth was uncovered.
Tell us exactly what corruption was found.
-
Some of you are comparing Putin with Saul Alinski? Nope, we are not going to be distracted by that old Saul Alinski nonsense. And Acorn isn,t in the same universe as Vlad. Is that really the best defense you can come up with? Alinski and Acorn? Lol.
-
What's funny is how every democratic scandal is remembered by the republicans but their scanalls are never mentioned. Watergate, Iran Contra, Hasert in jail involved in cover up of his pedophilia,. The list is endless.
-
What's funny is how every democratic scandal is remembered by the republicans but their scanalls are never mentioned. Watergate, Iran Contra, Hasert in jail involved in cover up of his pedophilia,. The list is endless.
Scadals in which someone pays a price (resignation from the presidency or vice presidency, going to jail, etc.) tend to be less mentioned since they have been "paid in full". Those in which the person escapes any consequences tend to get rehashed.
Here in MA, the last three speakers of the house were convicted of felonies (only the last one did time in the big house for it). These scandals by Democrats tend not to get rehashed a lot because they were convicted and the books balanced.
-
Here is a full list of the last 16 years. Note the number of republican involved.
2009–2017 Barack Obama Administration
Edit
Executive Branch
Edit
* Katherine Archuleta, who was the director of the Office of Personnel Management, was forced to resign on July 10, 2015 after the data theft of information on 22 million people who had applied for security clearances.[1]
* Veterans Health Administration scandal of 2014 - It was discovered that officials in the Phoenix VA hospital lied about how long the wait times were for veterans to see a doctor.[2] An investigation of delays is being conducted by the Veterans Affairs Office of the Inspector General.[3][4] The Secretary of Veterans Affairs, General Eric Shinseki, voluntarily resigned.[5]
* 2013 IRS scandal - IRS admitted to inappropriate investigation of conservative political groups associated with the Tea Party that may not have met the criteria for certain tax exemptions.[6] Later, it was found that the IRS investigated liberal and progressive groups as well.[7][8][9][10][11] The president demanded and accepted the resignation of Steven T. Miller Acting Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service. Other actions arising from the scandal included:
1. Lois Lerner, head of the IRS Office of Exempt Organizations, stated she had not done anything wrong and then took the Fifth before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.[12] She retired in 2013 after an internal investigation found that she neglected her duties and was going to call for her ouster.[13]
2. Joseph H. Grant, commissioner of the IRS Tax-exempt and Government entities division, resigned on May 16, 2013.[14]
* ATF gunwalking scandal – Attorney General Eric Holder was held in Contempt of Congress after refusing to release all documents which the House of Representatives had demanded concerning the Fast and Furious gun walking operation. (2012)[15]
* Terence Flynn, an appointee of Barack Obama to the National Labor Relations Board, resigned in May 2012 after being accused of serious ethical violations by leaking information to the National Association of Manufacturers.[16]
* Martha N. Johnson, head of the General Services Administration, fired two top GSA officials and then resigned herself after it was revealed that $822,000 had been spent in Las Vegas on a four-day training conference for 300 GSA employees. (2010)[17][18][19][20]
Legislative
Edit
* Chris Lee (R-NY) for New York's 26th congressional district resigned after he solicited a woman on Craigslist and emailed a shirtless photo of himself.(2011)[21]
* Dennis Hastert (R-IL) pleaded guilty to charges that he violated banking rules and lied to the FBI in a scheme to pay $3.5 million in hush money to conceal sexual misconduct with an under age boy from his days as a high school wrestling coach, from 1965 to 1981.(2015)[22][23][24]
* Aaron Schock (R-IL) resigned from office after evidence surfaced that he used campaign funds for travel, redecorated his office with taxpayer funds to resemble the sets of the Downton Abbey TV series, and otherwise spent campaign and/or taxpayer money on other questionable personal uses.(2015)[25]
* Schock's senior adviser Benjamin Cole had resigned earlier after he allegedly condemned "hood rats" and "black miscreants" in internet posts. Schock's office stated, "I am extremely disappointed by the inexcusable and offensive online comments made by a member of my staff."[26]
* Brett O'Donnell Communications Director for Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) plead guilty to lying to investigators from the House Office of Congressional Ethics about working for Rodgers while being paid with campaign money, thus becoming the first person ever to be convicted of lying to the House OCE.[27]
* Thaddeus McCotter (R-MI) resigned his Congressional seat. Four of his staff were convicted by the state of Michigan of falsifying signatures on McCotter's reelection petitions for the 2012 elections. Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette (R) blamed McCotter for running a slipshod, leaderless operation. "The congressman has resigned in disgrace", Schuette said, though McCotter was not charged.[28]
1. Paul Seewald worked for McCotter as his District Director of the Michigan's 11th congressional district. He pleaded guilty to nine counts of falsely signing a nominating petition as circulator. He was sentenced to two years' probation and 100 hours of community service, and ordered to pay court costs and fees.[29]
2. Don Yowchuang worked for McCotter as Deputy District Director of the Michigan 11th Congressional District. He pleaded guilty to ten counts of forgery and six counts of falsely signing a nominating petition and was sentenced to three years of probation, 200 hours of community service, court costs and fees.[30]
3. Mary M. Turnbull was McCotter's Representative to the Michigan 11th Congressional District. She was convicted of conspiring to commit a legal act in an illegal manner and falsely signing a nominating petition. She was sentenced to two years of probation, a day in jail, and 200 hours of community service. She was also ordered to pay a $1,440 fine. In addition, she is forbidden from any participation in elections or the political process.[31]
4. Lorianne O'Brady worked as a scheduler for McCotter in the Michigan 11th Congressional District. She pleaded no contest to charges that she falsely claimed to have legally collected signatures to get McCotter on the ballot when she actually had not. She was sentenced to 20 days in jail and a work program plus $2,625 in fines and court costs.[32]
* Senator Mitch McConnell's (R-KY) campaign manager Jesse Benton (R) resigned when details of a bribery scandal from Ron Paul's 2012 presidential campaign came to light. (2014).[33]
* David Rivera (R-FL) was indicted as a co-conspirator with Campaign Manager Ana Alliegro who pleaded guilty to violation of US campaign laws in an $81,000 campaign-finance scheme to prop up a little-known Democratic candidate who used the illegal cash to trash Rivera's rival in the 2012 Democratic primary.[34][35]
* Rick Renzi (R-AZ) on June 12, 2013, was found guilty of 17 counts against him, which included wire fraud, conspiracy, extortion, racketeering, money laundering, and making false statements to insurance regulators.[36]
* Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID) was arrested on December 23, 2012, and later pleaded guilty to drinking and driving in a Virginia court. The court fined him 250 dollars. He was sentenced to 180 days in prison, but served no time.[37][38][39]
* Trey Radel (R-FL) was arrested on October 29, 2013, in Washington, D.C. for possession of cocaine after purchasing the drug from an undercover law enforcement officer. As a first-time offender, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor in a Washington, D.C. court, and was sentenced to one year probation and fined $250. Radel took a leave of absence from office to undergo substance abuse treatment following his conviction. Following treatment, he initially returned to office with the intent of finishing his term, but eventually resigned on January 27, 2014.[40][41][42]
* Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (D-IL) pleaded guilty to one felony count of fraud for using $750,000 of campaign money to buy personal items such as stuffed animals, elk heads and fur capes.[43]
* Laura Richardson (D-CA) was found guilty on seven counts of violating US House rules by improperly using her staff to campaign for her, destroying the evidence and tampering with witness testimony. The House Ethics Committee ordered Richardson to pay a fine of $10,000. (2012)[44][45]
* John Ensign (R-NV) resigned his Senate seat on May 3, 2011, just before the Senate Ethics Committee could examine possible fiscal violations in connection with his extramarital affair with Cynthia Hampton. (2011)[46][47][48][49] (see Federal sex scandals) In May 2012, aide Doug Hampton (R) in what became the John Ensign scandal reached a plea deal with prosecutors, the details of which have not yet been released.[50]
* Michael Grimm (R-NY) pleaded guilty to tax fraud on December 23, 2014, and was sentenced to eight months in federal prison.[51]
* Ron Paul (R-TX) Deputy Campaign Manager Dimitri Kesari was convicted of causing false records concerning charges of buying an Iowa State Senator's endorsement during the 2012 presidential campaign.(2012)[52]
* Scott DesJarlais (R-TN), while running for re-election on a pro-life platform, it was discovered that he had made his wife have two abortions, and tried to persuade his mistress (who was also his patient), to have one as well. He also admitted under oath that while a married physician at Grandview Medical Center in Jasper, TN, he had six affairs with three co-workers, two patients and a drug representative. He was investigated by the Tennessee Board of Health, pleaded guilty and was fined.(2012) [53][54]
Judicial Branch
Edit
* G. Thomas Porteous Federal Judge for Eastern Louisiana was unanimously impeached by the US House of Representatives on charges of bribery and perjury in March 2010. He was convicted by the US Senate and removed from office. He had been appointed by Democrat Bill Clinton. (2010)[55][56]
* Samuel B. Kent (R) Federal District Judge of Galveston, Texas, was sentenced to 33 months in prison for lying about sexually harassing two female employees. He had been appointed to office by President George H. W. Bush in 1990. (2009)[57][58][59]
* Jack T. Camp Senior Federal U.S. District Court Judge was appointed by Republican Ronald Reagan and again by George W. Bush, was arrested in an undercover drug bust while trying to purchase cocaine from an FBI agent. Judge Camp resigned after pleading guilty to three criminal charges. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail, 400 community service hours and fined.[60][61][62]
2001–2009 George W. Bush Administration
Edit
Executive Branch
Edit
* Joseph E. Schmitz (R) was nominated by President George W. Bush (R) to be Defense Department Inspector General on June 18, 2001. He resigned on September 9, 2005 in the wake of several allegations by Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) including that he had obstructed the FBI investigation of John A. Shaw.[63][64][65][66][67]
* Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal
* Secretary of the Army Francis J. Harvey (R) abruptly resigned over substandard conditions for wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center including long delays in treatment, rodent infestation and outbreaks of mold. Harvey had been appointed to the position by George W. Bush.(2007)[68]
1. Maj. Gen. George Weightman, was fired for failures linked to the scandal.(2007) [69]
2. Maj. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley resigned for failures linked to the scandal.[70]
* Felipe Sixto was appointed by President George W. Bush to be his Special Assistant for Intergovernmental Affairs as well as Duty Director at the Office of Public Liaison. He resigned a few weeks later on March 20, 2008 because of his misuse of grant money from the U.S. Agency for International Development when he had worked for the Center for a Free Cuba.[71] He was sentenced to 30 months in prison for stealing almost $600,000 for personal use.[72]
* Timothy Goeglein, Special Assistant to President Bush resigned when it was discovered that more than 20 of his columns had been plagiarized from an Indiana newspaper. (2008)[73]
* Scott Bloch was appointed by President George W. Bush to head the United States Office of Special Counsel. On April 27, 2010 Bloch pleaded guilty to criminal contempt of Congress for "willfully and unlawfully withholding pertinent information from a House committee investigating his decision to have several government computers wiped ...."[74] On February 2, Magistrate Judge Deborah A. Robinson ruled that Bloch faces a mandatory sentence of at least one month in prison.[75][76]
* Lewis Libby, Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney (R). 'Scooter' was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice in the Plame Affair on March 6, 2007. He was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fined $250,000. The sentence was commuted by George W. Bush on July 1, 2007. The felony remains on Libby's record, though the jail time and fine were commuted.[77][78]
* Alphonso Jackson The Secretary of Housing and Urban Development resigned while under investigation by the Justice Department for alleged cronyism and favoritism [79]
* Karl Rove Senior Adviser to President George W. Bush was investigated by the Office of Special Counsel for "improper political influence over government decision-making", as well as for his involvement in several other scandals such as Lawyergate, Bush White House e-mail controversy and Plame affair. He resigned in April 2007. (See Karl Rove in the George W. Bush administration)[80]
* Richard J. Griffin Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security appointed by George W. Bush who made key decisions regarding the department's oversight of private security contractor Blackwater USA, resigned in November 2007, after a critical review by the House Oversight Committee found that his office had failed to adequately supervise private contractors during the Blackwater Baghdad shootings protecting U.S. diplomats in Iraq.[81]
* Howard Krongard, Republican contributor[82] was appointed Inspector General of the US State Department by President George W. Bush in 2005.[83] After he was accused by the House Oversight Committee of improperly interfering with investigations into private security contractor Blackwater USA, concerning the Blackwater Baghdad shootings. Krongard resigned in December 2007.[84][85]
* "Lawyergate"[86] Or the Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy refers to President Bush firing, without explanation, eleven Republican federal prosecutors whom he himself had appointed. It is alleged they were fired for prosecuting Republicans and not prosecuting Democrats.[87][88] When Congressional hearings were called, a number of senior Justice Departmentofficials cited executive privilege and refused to testify under oath and instead resigned, including:
1. Alberto Gonzales Attorney General of the United States[89]
2. Karl Rove Advisor to President Bush[90]
3. Harriet Miers Legal Counsel to President Bush, was found in Contempt of Congress[91]
4. Michael A. Battle Director of Executive Office of US Attorneys in the Justice Department.[92]
5. Bradley Schlozman Director of Executive Office of US Attorneys who replaced Battle[93]
6. Michael Elston Chief of Staff to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty[94]
7. Paul McNulty Deputy Attorney General to William Mercer[95]
8. William W. Mercer Associate Attorney General to Alberto Gonzales[96]
9. Kyle Sampson Chief of Staff to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales[92]
10. Monica Goodling Liaison between President Bush and the Justice Department[97]
11. Joshua Bolten Deputy Chief of Staff to President Bush was found in Contempt of Congress[91]
12. Sara M. Taylor Aide to Presidential Advisor Karl Rove[98]
* Bush White House e-mail controversy – During the Lawyergate investigation it was discovered that the Bush administration used Republican National Committee (RNC) web servers for millions of emails which were then destroyed, lost or deleted in possible violation of the Presidential Records Act and the Hatch Act. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Andrew Card, Sara Taylor and Scott Jennings all used RNC webservers for the majority of their emails. Of 88 officials investigated, 51 showed no emails at all.[99] As many as 5 million e-mails requested by Congressional investigators were therefore unavailable, lost, or deleted.[100]
* Lurita Alexis Doan Resigned as head of the General Services Administration. She was under scrutiny for conflict of interest and violations of the Hatch Act.[101] Among other things she asked GSA employees how they could "help Republican candidates".[102]
* John Korsmo chairman of the Federal Housing Finance Board pleaded guilty to lying to congress and sentenced to 18 months of unsupervised probation and fined $5,000. (2005)[103]
* Darleen A. Druyun was Principal Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force nominated by George W. Bush.[104] She pleaded guilty to inflating the price of contracts to favor her future employer, Boeing. In October 2004, she was sentenced to nine months in jail for corruption, fined $5,000, given three years of supervised release and 150 hours of community service. She began her prison term on January 5, 2005.[105] CBS News called it "the biggest Pentagon scandal in 20 years" and said that she pleaded guilty to a felony.[106]
* Philip Cooney Bush appointee to chair the Council on Environmental Quality was accused of editing government climate reports to emphasize doubts about global warming.[107] Two days later, Cooney announced his resignation[108] and later conceded his role in altering reports. Stating "My sole loyalty was to the President and advancing the policies of his administration," .[109][110]
* Jack Abramoff Scandal in which the prominent lobbyist with close ties to Republican administration officials and legislators offered bribes as part of his lobbying efforts. Abramoff was sentenced to 4 years in prison.[111][112] See Legislative scandals.
1. Tom DeLay (R-TX) The House Majority Leader was reprimanded twice by the House Ethics Committee and his aides indicted (2004–2005); eventually DeLay himself was investigated in October 2005 in connection with the Abramoff scandal, but not indicted. DeLay resigned from the House 9 June 2006.[113] DeLay was found to have illegally channeled funds from Americans for a Republican Majority to Republican state legislator campaigns. He was convicted of two counts of money laundering and conspiracy in 2010.[114]
2. David Safavian GSA (General Services Administration) Chief of Staff,[115] found guilty of blocking justice and lying,[116]and sentenced to 18 months[117]
3. Roger Stillwell Staff in the Department of the Interior under President George W. Bush (R). Pleaded guilty and received two years suspended sentence.[118]
4. Susan B. Ralston Special Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor to Karl Rove, resigned October 6, 2006, after it became known that she accepted gifts and passed information to her former boss Jack Abramoff.[119]
5. J. Steven Griles former Deputy to the Secretary of the Interior pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice and was sentenced to 10 months.[120]
6. Italia Federici staff to the Secretary of the Interior, and President of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy, pled guilty to tax evasion and obstruction of justice. She was sentenced to four years probation.[121][122][123]
7. Jared Carpenter Vice-President of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy, was discovered during the Abramoff investigation and pled guilty to income tax evasion. He got 45 days, plus 4 years probation.[124]
8. Mark Zachares staff in the Department of Labor, bribed by Abramoff, guilty of conspiracy to defraud.[112]
9. Robert E. Coughlin Deputy Chief of Staff, Criminal Division of the Justice Department pleaded guilty to conflict of interest after accepting bribes from Jack Abramoff. (2008)[122]
* Kyle Foggo Executive director of the CIA was convicted of honest services fraud in the awarding of a government contract and sentenced to 37 months in federal prison at Pine Knot, Kentucky. On September 29, 2008, Foggo pleaded guilty to one count of the indictment, admitting that while he was the CIA executive director, he acted to steer a CIA contract to the firm of his lifelong friend, Brent R. Wilkes.[125]
* Julie MacDonald Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Department of the Interior, resigned May 1, 2007, after giving government documents to developers (2007)[126]
* Claude Allen Appointed as an advisor by President George W. Bush (R) on Domestic Policy, Allen was arrested for a series of felony thefts in retail stores. He was convicted on one count and resigned soon after.[127]
* Lester Crawford Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, resigned after 2 months. pleaded guilty to conflict of interest and received 3 years suspended sentence and fined $90,000 (2006)[128]
* 2003 Invasion of Iraq depended on intelligence that Saddam Hussein was developing "weapons of mass destruction" (WMDs) meaning nuclear, chemical and/or biological weapons for offensive use. As revealed by The (British) Downing Street memo "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy" The press called this the 'smoking gun."(2005)[129]
* Yellowcake forgery: Just before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration presented evidence to the UN that Iraq was seeking material (yellowcake uranium) in Africa for making nuclear weapons. Though presented as true, it was later found to be not only dubious, but outright false.[130][131]
* Coalition Provisional Authority Cash Payment Scandal: On June 20, 2005, the staff of the Committee on Government Reform prepared a report for Congressman Henry Waxman.[132] It was revealed that $12 billion in cash had been delivered to Iraq by C-130 planes, on shrinkwrapped pallets of US $100 bills.[133] The United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, concluded that "Many of the funds appear to have been lost to corruption and waste.... Some of the funds could have enriched both criminals and insurgents...." Henry Waxman, commented, "Who in their right mind would send 363 tons of cash into a war zone?" A single flight to Iraq on December 12, 2003, which contained $1.5 billion in cash is said to be the largest single Federal Reserve payout in US history according to Henry Waxman.[134][135]
* Bush administration payment of columnists with federal funds to say nice things about Republican policies. Illegal payments were made to journalists Armstrong Williams, Maggie Gallagher and Michael McManus (2004–2005)[136]
* John A. Shaw (R) was appointed by George W. Bush as Under Secretary of Defense [137] He was investigated on corruption although charges were never filed against him, he was asked to resign in 2004.[138] When he refused to resign, he was fired by the Bush administration on December 10, 2004.[139][140][141]
* Bernard Kerik nomination in 2004 as Secretary of Homeland Security was derailed by past employment of an illegal alien as a nanny, and other improprieties. On Nov 4, 2009, he pleaded guilty to two counts of tax fraud and five counts of lying to the federal government and was sentenced to four years in prison.[142]
* Plame affair (2004), in which CIA agent Valerie Plame's name was leaked by Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State, to the press in retaliation for her husband's criticism of the reports used by George W. Bush to legitimize the Iraq war.[143]Armitage admitted he was the leak[144] but no wrongdoing was found.
* Thomas A. Scully, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), withheld information from Congress about the projected cost of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act, and allegedly threatened to fire Medicare's chief actuary, Richard Foster, if Foster provided the data to Congress. (2003)[145] Scully resigned on December 16, 2003.
* NSA warrantless surveillance – Shortly after the September 11 attacks in 2001, President George W. Bush (R) implemented a secret program by the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on domestic telephone calls by American citizens without warrants, thus by-passing the FISA court which must approve all such actions. (2002)[146] In 2010, Federal Judge Vaughn Walker ruled this practice to be illegal.[147]
* Janet Rehnquist (daughter of former Chief Justice William Rehnquist) appointed Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services by George W. Bush. In 2002, Governor Jeb Bush's (R-FL) Chief of Staff Kathleen Shanahan asked Rehnquist to delay auditing a $571 million federal overpayment to the State of Florida. Rehnquist ordered her staff to delay the investigation for five months until after the Florida elections. When Congress began an investigation into the matter, Rehnquist resigned in March 2003, saying she wanted to spend more time with her family.[148][149][150][150][151][152]
* John Yoo An attorney in the Office of Legal Counsel inside the Justice Department who, working closely with vice president Dick Cheney and The Bush Six,[153] wrote memos stating the right of the president to –
1. suspend sections of the ABM Treaty without informing Congress[154]
2. bypass the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act allowing warrantless wiretapping of US Citizens within the United States by the National Security Agency.[154]
3. state that the First Amendment and Fourth Amendments and the Takings Clause do not apply to the president in time of war as defined in the USA PATRIOT Act[154]
4. allow Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (torture) because provisions of the War Crimes Act, the Third Geneva Convention, and the Torture convention do not apply.[154]
Many of his memos have since been repudiated and reversed.[154][155] Later review by the Justice Department reported that Yoo and Jay Bybee used "poor judgement" in the memos, but no charges were filed.[156]
* Carl Truscott Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms appointed in 2004 but was soon under investigation for his management style and allegations of lavish spending and misuse of resources, including requiring a large number of agents as personal security, allocating hundreds of thousands of dollars of expensive upgrades to the ATF HQ building, adding a new garage to his house, detailing 20 agents to help with his nephew's high school project and other examples of poor financial judgment. Truscott resigned as the ATF Director on August 4, 2006.[157][158]
Legislative Branch
Edit
* James W. Treffinger (R-NJ) the US senatorial candidate pleaded guilty in 2003 to corruption and fraud as Chief Executive of Essex County and ordered to pay $30,000 in restitution and serve 13 months in jail.[159]
* Ted Stevens Senator (R-AK) was convicted of seven counts of bribery and tax evasion October 27, 2008. He then lost re-election. Newly appointed US Attorney General Eric Holder dismissed the charges "in the interest of justice" stating that the Justice Department had illegally withheld evidence from defense counsel.[160]
* Charles Rangel (D-NY) failed to report $75,000 income from the rental of his villa in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic and was forced to pay $11,000 in back taxes.(September 2008)[161]
* Rick Renzi (R-AZ) Announced he would not seek another term.[162]* He was later sentenced to three years in prison after conviction on federal corruption charges of extortion, bribery, insurance fraud, money laundering and racketeering related to a 2005 money-laundering scheme that netted the Flagstaff Republican more than $700,000. (2005) [163]
* Mark Foley (R-FL) resigned on September 29, 2006 after sending sexually explicit messages to former Congressional pages.[164]
* Frank Ballance (D-NC) admitted to a federal charge of money laundering and mail fraud in October 2005 and sentenced to 4 years in prison.[165]
* Tom DeLay (R-TX) and House Majority Leader served from 1985 to 2006 when he resigned his position to undergo trial for conspiring to launder corporate money into political donations and money laundering during the 2002 elections. On November 24, 2010, DeLay was found guilty[166] and was sentenced to three years in prison and 10 years' probation respectively.[167] On September 19, 2013, the conviction was overturned.[168]
* Jack Abramoff Scandal, (R) lobbyist found guilty of conspiracy, tax evasion and corruption of public officials in three different courts in a wide ranging investigation. Currently serving 70 months and fined $24.7 million.[169] See Scandals, Executive Branch. The following were also implicated:
1. Tom DeLay (R-TX) The House Majority Leader was reprimanded twice by the House Ethics Committee and his aides indicted (2004–2005); eventually DeLay himself was investigated in October 2005 in connection with the Abramoff scandal, but not indicted. DeLay resigned from the House 9 June 2006.[113] DeLay was found to have illegally channeled funds from Americans for a Republican Majority to Republican state legislator campaigns. He was convicted of two counts of money laundering and conspiracy in 2010.[114]
2. Michael Scanlon (R) former staff to Tom DeLay: working for Abramoff, pled guilty to bribery.[111][112]
3. Tony Rudy (R) former staff to Tom DeLay, pleaded guilty to conspiracy.[112]
4. James W. Ellis executive director of Tom DeLay's political action committee, Americans for a Republican Majority(ARMPAC), was indicted by Texas for money laundering.[170]
5. John Colyandro executive director of Tom DeLay's political action committee, Texans for a Republican Majority(TRMPAC), was indicted by Texas for money laundering[170]
6. Bob Ney (R-OH) pleaded guilty to conspiracy and making false statements as a result of his receiving trips from Abramoff in exchange for legislative favors. Ney received 30 months in prison.[112][171]
7. William Heaton (R) Chief of Staff for Bob Ney pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit fraud[172] admitting to conspiring with Ney, Jack Abramoff and others to accept vacations, meals, tickets, and contributions to Ney's campaign in exchange for Ney benefitting Abramoff's clients.(2006)[173]
8. Neil Volz former staff to Robert Ney, pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy in 2006 charges stemming from his work for Bob Ney. In 2007 he was sentenced to two years probation, 100 hours community service, and a fine of $2,000.[174]
9. William Heaton, former chief of staff for Bob Ney (R), pleaded guilty to a federal conspiracy charge involving a golf trip to Scotland, expensive meals, and tickets to sporting events between 2002 and 2004 as payoffs for helping Abramoff's clients.[175]
10. John Albaugh, former chief of staff to Ernest Istook (R-OK), pled guilty to accepting bribes connected to the Federal Highway Bill. Istook was not charged. (2008)[176]
11. James Hirni, former staff to Tim Hutchinson (R-AR), was charged with wire fraud for giving a staffer for Don Young (R) of Alaska a bribe in exchange for amendments to the Federal Highway Bill. (2008)[177]
12. Kevin A. Ring (R) former staff to John Doolittle (R-CA) was convicted of five charges of corruption.[178][179]
* John Doolittle (R-CA) both he and his wife were under investigation (January 2008). Under this cloud, Doolittle decided not to run for re-election in November 2008. The Justice Department announced in June 2010 they had terminated the investigation and found no wrongdoing.[180]
* Randy Cunningham (R-CA) pleaded guilty on November 28, 2005, to charges of conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in what came to be called the Cunningham scandal. Sentenced to over eight years.[181]
* Tan Nguyen (R-CA) congressional candidate for the 47th District was convicted of voter intimidation. He lost the election and was sentenced to one year in prison and six months in a halfway house. (2006)[182]
* Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) struck a U.S. Capitol Police officer in the chest after he attempted to stop her from going around a security checkpoint. McKinney apologized on the floor of the House and no charges were filed (March 29, 2006)[183]
* William J. Jefferson (D-LA) in August 2005 the FBI seized $90,000 in cash from Jefferson's home freezer. He was re-elected anyway, but lost in 2008. Jefferson was convicted of 11 counts of bribery and sentenced to 13 years on November 13, 2009, and his chief of staff Brett Pfeffer was sentenced to 84 months in a related case.[184][185]
* Bill Janklow (R-SD) convicted of second-degree manslaughter for running a stop sign and killing a motorcyclist. Resigned from the House and given 100 days in the county jail and three years (2003)[186]
* Robert Torricelli Senator (D-NJ) after 14 years in the House and one term in the Senate, Torricelli declined to run again when accused of taking illegal contributions from Korean businessman David Chang. (2002)[187]
* Jim Traficant (D-OH) found guilty on 10 felony counts of financial corruption, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison and expelled from the House (2002)[188]
-
;musicalnote; He's making a list ;musicalnote; he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's been naughty or nice! Santa Claus is coming to town! ;musicalnote; :santahat; :rudolph; :christmastree;
Here's a list that Hillary NEVER likes to talk about:
US Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens
US Foreign Service Information Mgmt Officer Sean Smith
CIA contractor Tyrone S. Woods
CIA contractor Glen Doherty
-
;musicalnote; He's making a list ;musicalnote; he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's been naughty or nice! Santa Claus is coming to town! ;musicalnote; :santahat; :rudolph; :christmastree;
Here's a list that Hillary NEVER likes to talk about:
US Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens
US Foreign Service Information Mgmt Officer Sean Smith
CIA contractor Tyrone S. Woods
CIA contractor Glen Doherty
No, you're mistaken. That's Gen. Betrayus' list.
-
Now, Trump won the presidency with a minority of the electorate's votes,
Wrong. Trump had 306 Electoral Votes to Clinton's 232. It takes 270 to win so Trump had far more than a minority. Plus, Trump won 31 states in popular vote while Hillary took just 19 and D.C.
...with the lowest approval rating of any President elect in this nation's history
So what? If Clinton had won, she would have done so with the second worst approval rating in history. Not much better than Trump's. What Trump's win says, voters at least trusted him and his agenda more than Hillary's and Obama's.
and with the possible help of the dictator of an adversarial nation.
And what "help" would that be? NO allegations of tampering with voting machines or voting outcomes. Maybe helping Wikileaks? If so, that was all TRUE FACTS released to the public - no changing of emails. If anything, just a leveling of the playing field since the liberal media was in Clinton's pocket and doing everything possible to sabotage Trump's campaign by only reporting neative stories on him and positive for Hillary. MSM lost all sense of propriety and even admitted so. Oh, Obama knew of the hacking months ago, why did he wait until now to start making a stink?
Trump's presidency is invalid in the minds of many people before he ever takes the Oath. The "legal system" is beside the point.
Only to those who do not understand our country is a representative republic, not a democracy and/or are whiners and bad losers. All the rest is just noise.
-
The Libya fiasco was a CIA blunder not a State Department blunder. What was seized in Benghazi was a CIA facility hidden as a State Department location.
The Ambasador was visiting a CIA Building. The CIA was responsible for security not State. Funding for security at that location was. CIA responcibity.
This is just another example of the Repupublican lie machine bending the facts till they become some thing they like but are not the truth
-
The Libya fiasco was a CIA blunder not a State Department blunder. What was seized in Benghazi was a CIA facility hidden as a State Department location.
The Ambasador was visiting a CIA Building. The CIA was responsible for security not State. Funding for security at that location was. CIA responcibity.
This is just another example of the Repupublican lie machine bending the facts till they become some thing they like but are not the truth
Benghazi was an information office that had no diplomatic status, but still under the auspices of the State Dept. There was a small staff of actual State Department information officers plus local translators. The much larger CIA base was located in a separate building a mile away. The CIA did send paramilitaries to the info office when it was under attack, but got pushed back due to being undermanned. Do some fact checking through legit resources as opposed to relying on lefty propaganda.
EDIT: Hillary testified twice and never said a word about the outpost being the responsibility of the CIA. She just used the sequester as an excuse for HER agency not having the funds to upgrade the security. Don't let the facts get in the way of your unfounded bias.
-
SutureSelf,
1. I said "the electorate's votes", not "electoral votes".
2. It matters because he's running around claiming to have a "mandate", but more people voted against him than voted FOR him.
3. The CIA and FBI have agreed that the information gleaned from the Russian hackers was used by Putin personally to undermine the Democratic candidate. And President Obama explained at great length during his Press conference yesterday why he did not go public with this information sooner. But it doesn't matter because there was already information in the public domain that the Russians were hacking, so I don't know what you're on about. When you can't put forth reliable information, you fall back on the lame "oh, the MSM favored Clinton" lie.
4. The election of Trump does not represent the will of the majority of people who voted, so get ready for "noise". It's gonna get loud.
-
SutureSelf,
1. I said "the electorate's votes", not "electoral votes".
2. It matters because he's running around claiming to have a "mandate", but more people voted against him than voted FOR him.
3. The CIA and FBI have agreed that the information gleaned from the Russian hackers was used by Putin personally to undermine the Democratic candidate. And President Obama explained at great length during his Press conference yesterday why he did not go public with this information sooner. But it doesn't matter because there was already information in the public domain that the Russians were hacking, so I don't know what you're on about. When you can't put forth reliable information, you fall back on the lame "oh, the MSM favored Clinton" lie.
4. The election of Trump does not represent the will of the majority of people who voted, so get ready for "noise". It's gonna get loud.
Sorry about #1. My eyes, especially the right, are going on me. However, Trump never went out for the popular vote in CA or NY, the two states that made the majority of the 2M difference. It was all about electoral votes and getting to 270. Why waste time in 2 states he knew no chance . However, campaigning might have been different if having to go0 for the popular vote. He most definitely would have spent a lot a time in all the most populated states. He might have won CA. Remember, he wasn't expected to take MI, WI, PA or FL, but did. We'll never know because it wasn't necessary by the rules of our country.
As far as a "mandate," the definition doesn't just apply to the popular vote, it can include electoral results as well. So, yes, 306-232 can be considered a mandate by Trump supporters while Trump detractors are just as legitimate in not accepting. That's politics.
Yes, yes, Obama rambled trying to cover his ass for a big mistake. He just couldn't believe Trump actually had a chance to win. Knows differently now. As for the MSM, this from the NYT:
"New York Times Publisher Arthur Sulzberger Jr. has admitted his paper underestimated Donald Trump's support among American voters.
Sulzberger promises to "rededicate ourselves" to the newspaper's standards of reporting news "honestly," but had the "Gray Lady" been fair to start with, it would not need to rededicate itself, New York Post columnist Michael Goodwin said in a Saturday opinion piece.
"Because it demonized Trump from start to finish, it failed to realize he was onto something," Goodwin writes. "And because the paper decided that Trump's supporters were a rabble of racist rednecks and homophobes, it didn't have a clue about what was happening in the lives of the Americans who elected the new president."" - http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Gray-Lady-Blew-it-Donald-Trump-New-York-Times/2016/11/12/id/758530/
Go to any reliable fact check site and search number of positive stories, time given to Clinton and Trump and number of negative for each by the MSM. My point will be proven.
-
We'll never know because it wasn't necessary by the rules of our country.
This is the point that those who harp on Hillary winning the popular vote fail to recognize.
-
SutureSelf, I agree with you about the NYT, and the same point can be made for many media outlets.
However, I'm not sure there were that many "positive" stories about either candidate in this most negative campaign in recent history. I don't agree at all that there were more negative stories about Trump than about Clinton. All we heard about Clinton were stories about the emails or Trump's diatribes about how she should be locked up. There were so many weird and hostile remarks made by Trump that before any media outlet could cover one, a new one would pop up, and people were so overwhelmed by Trump's disdain of our generals, Sen. McCain, Gold Star Families, women and their private parts, etc that the American people just became blind to it all.
So, exactly which are the "reliable fact check sites" that will prove all of your points? Please give me a comprehensive list, and let's thoroughly examine them.
Tell me honestly. Do you truly believe that Trump has as his priority the quality of life for the people who voted for them? What has he done so far that points to this?
-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-intelligence-report-russia-unclassified-hacking-report-donald-trump-us-election-read-a7513986.html
http://www.politico.com/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/06/vladimir-putin-us-election-interference-report-donald-trump
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/intel-report-says-putin-ordered-campaign-to-influence-us-election.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/intel-report-says-putin-ordered-campaign-to-influence-us-election.html
Well, I have to give Mr. Trump due credit. He was right. The election was rigged and influenced by Mr. Putin. Donald Trump is not my president. Seems like Mr. Putin is, though.
Wow. Just, wow.
Make America Vote Again.
-
Yeah, it's not like the US has ever attempted to influence a foreign election.
This is like the inspector in Casablanca telling Rick "I am shocked, shocked to find there is gambling going on here" right before a Blue Parrot worker hands him a wad "your winnings sir".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME
-
Give me an example exactly analogous to this. Has the US ever used systematic cyber warfare against a foreign sovereign nation to influence their electorate?
Germany is next on Putin's hit list.
-
I have read and read everything on this latest & all roads lead to the following conclusion:
In spite of Russia just trying to be Russia again (as they have always been & always will be), in no way has the 2016 US election outcome been altered nor has there been any tampering whatsoever with voting machines. This is the basic conclusion of the intelligence agency report.
And just when I thought I couldn't go any higher, my support for Donald Trump has just been raised even more by how he has been managing Russia since the election victory! Thank heavens for the call for greater unity between the US & Russia at long last.
-
And just when I thought I couldn't go any higher, my support for Donald Trump has just been raised even more by how he has been managing Russia since the election victory! Thank heavens for the call for greater unity between the US & Russia at long last.
This is a good side effect, but my fear is it will embolden Putin and more Ukraine like occupations will happen, those types of aggressions around Europe cause world wars. (As opposed to our involvement in the middle east which seems to create global Jihad.)
-
Of course the US would like to have "good relations" with Russia, but at what price?
The last time that the US believed we were in some modicum of alliance with Russia was in Syria. The Russians claimed they were joining the US military in bombing Assad forces, but in fact they were bombing the rebel forces the US were supporting and were instead bombing enemies of Assad. So, they lied. And then they started bombing hospitals in and around Aleppo.
There was never any belief that Russia hacked US voting machines. Athena, since you read "everything", you will then know that Russia in fact hacked RNC computers, too, yet it was information hacked from DNC computers that they chose to use and disseminate in clouds of fake news. You will also know that once Trump became the nominee, Putin stepped in and personally took the reins.
You will also know from reading the actual report that Putin personally ordered a campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton.
Of course Donald Trump will say that Putin's actions had no influence on the election. What else would he say? If he were to agree with the Intelligence report, it would undermine his presidency before he was even sworn in.
If you care to read the actual report, the link to it is contained within this article:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/white-house-vladimir-putin-election-hacking-donald-trump-233299
Athena, in exactly what way has Trump "managed" Russia?
Another question for you. Looking at Trump's nominees for cabinet posts, specifically Attorney General and Secretary of Energy, how do you see these and other picks (all of them multi-millionaires or billionaires, as you know) providing jobs for "ordinary Americans"? And do you see Trump keeping his promise to repeal the ACA? Out of curiosity, how is health care paid for where you live?
I've asked you so many specific question about why you support Trump, and I've never seen a reply. I am truly curious why you think his election is a good thing, especially as you don't even live here. I'm really interested to know because I am hoping you see something from the outside that I don't see. I just don't understand. In fact, no one here on IHD who has supported Trump can point to any specific policy or nomination they support AND WHY. It's almost as if now that Trump has been elected, no one cares anymore or everyone now assumes that everything is going to be OK, whatever "OK" means.
edited to add: Here's what really concerns me. No one who supports Trump seems to care about Putin's actions in interfering in the election. I find that very disturbing. It's as if all that matters is Trump's election, and if he needed Putin's help, it doesn't matter. Having a President Trump is of more importance than the fact that a foreign hostile power actively sought to undermine the electoral process and the credibility of a particular candidate out of preference for another particular candidate. This goes against the very fabric of our democracy. This is most assuredly NOT making American "great" again. But who cares, right? No, what matters is that now we might have a better relationship with the very country that undercut us and is reveling in the result. Again, what is the price the American electorate is willing to pay? We've already paid a price that is way too high. We've given our democracy away.
What do you think would have been the reaction if Putin had preferred Hillary Clinton? I'm asking a direct question. What do you think would have been the reaction if Putin had worked to undermine Trump so that Hillary Clinton would have been elected? Think about that.
-
Question: On a scale of 1 to 10 of concern about cyber danger & laxity in the face of known vulnerability (with 5 being the standard applied to Hillary Clinton's email server during the 2016 campaign) what number should be assigned to President Trump's phone habits?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/trump-phone-security-risk-hackers-601903 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/trump-phone-security-risk-hackers-601903)
If the risk borne by avoiding the inconvenience of the State Department's antiquated 2009 email system is a 5 then I'd put Trump carrying around/using a device with a camera/microphone/24_7 internet connection, I'd put that at a solid 10. To be fair the scale should be adjusted because by comparison Clinton risk profile would be more in the 2 range. I mean a bunch of emails leaking discussions about classified programs, programs being discussed in every paper and news cast in America, the CIA/Military drone program, is nothing compared to the President carrying around an off the shelf smartphone. Reckless with a heaping side order of not giving a shit about "THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER!! (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-2016-emails-213241)"
-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I KNOW! Remember when Obama had to give up his Blackberry? Can you imagine the outrage if he had petulantly refused, saying that it would be too inconvenient for him!!???
I swear, Trump can get away with anything. Too many traitors in our Congress are enabling him. It's a disgrace.
-
AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE!!! A bunch of toadies. All of them.
-
:welcomesign;
-
Yeah,if Trump keeps this up with his own cell we might actually find out what if anything in is hanger 18.
When he started there were rumblings he wanted to use his own plane instead of Airforce One.