I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: kitkatz on January 31, 2016, 03:26:46 PM
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I have noticed a prevalence for intestinal problems for dialysis patients. I have had intestinal perforation. Just wondering if any studies have been done about this subject and the dialysis patient.
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Hi Kitkatz just found this one
Chronic kidney disease alters intestinal microbial flora
Date:
October 9, 2012
Source:
University of California - Irvine
Summary:
Chronic kidney disease changes the composition of intestinal bacterial microbes that normally play a crucial role in staving off disease-causing pathogens and maintaining micronutrient balance, according to new research.
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Is this a general problem among dialysis or biased towards pd, or Hemo patients?
Again have to ask time wise, short term, mid-term, long term. Too many factors to be making a blanket statement.
On PD will be 3 yrs in May. No problems, yet.
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It is a concequence of uremia (toxins in your blood) so independent of type of D.
Apparently diverticulosis and peritonitis with PD (medscape article) and Lower Gastrointestinal bleeding in HD
International Journal of Nephrology
Volume 2011 (2011), Article ID 272535, 8 pages
http://dx.doi.org/10.4061/2011/272535
Review Article
Lower Gastrointestinal Bleeding in Chronic Hemodialysis Patients
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O o it doesn't stop I'm going to stop reading
chronic dialysis patients.
Hung KH1, Lee CT, Lam KK, Chuang FR, Hsiu KT, Chen JB, Chien YS, Pan HH.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Ischemic bowel disease, especially acute mesenteric ischemia, carries high morbidity and mortality rates. Any delay in diagnosis or treatment aggravates the patient's outcome. Owing to the scarcity of reports concerning ischemic bowel disease in chronic dialysis patients, we investigated the ischemic bowel disease in chronic dialysis patient
1999
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Hi Kitkatz I have read quite a few of reports now about the prevalence of intestinal problems and the gut in CKD and D patients. The most interesting I read was on Renalnutrition.org. Volume 33 Nr. 1
'It is widely known and accepted that the gut is a source of uremic toxins, which contribute to increased inflammation and cardiovascular disease- two major reasons for high mortality rates among CKD patients (1,2). Yet, most
of the research and treatment for CKD focuses on managing other symptoms and does not consider the effect these symptoms and treatments have on the microbiota, the microbes present in the intestine. Outcomes for CKD may be improved by examining the relationship between CKD and microbiota
in the gut, and then implementing therapy to restore the symbiotic relationship.'
I spoke to the renal dietitian who will find some pro and pre-biotics with the lowest phosphates and Potassium so 'we' can start restoring our gut flora to prevent thinning of the lining. I also read that the gut problems cause some people to not being able to absorb protein. She found it interesting and will do some research into that (she said...)
Love to y'all, Cas
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The more they learn about the microbiome, the more central it seems to be to every system in the body. I'm really sorry that I let my kefir culture die. I had been drinking a daily glass of home made goat's milk kefir (fermented milk with way more probiotics than yogurt) for several years. Now that I'm trying to avoid dairy, I let my kefir culture lapse. So I guess it's probiotic pills for me.
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Hi kickingandscreaming I read that you can also make a non-dairy kefir. I'll quickly try and find that for you now.
Love, Cas
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Instructions:
To make coconut milk kefir, place the milk kefir grains in coconut milk.
Stir with a non-metal spoon.
Cover with coffee filter or cloth, secured by a rubber band.
Culture at room temperature, 68°-85°F.
After 12 hours, begin checking the coconut milk kefir every few hours, up to a maximum of 24 hours.
How to Make Coconut Milk Kefir | Coconut Milk Kefir Recipe
www.culturesforhealth.com › coconut-mi...
Good luck, Cas
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Yes, I have had a perforation and then after surgery (2 days later) they brought me a tray of turkey and dressing and I ate it and it split again where the surgery was. OMG I ended up with a colostomy for 9 months and then another surgery and a liquid diet for 8 days.
I admit I don't eat the 12 servings of fruits and vegetables a day and we know we can't drink 8 glasses of water a day so is it some microbe imbalance or we just can't drink enough to wash the bacteria out?
My coffee creamer every morning is Miralax. It seems to keep things moving. :cheer:
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Shocked to hear of your experience. Repaired only to blowout and need repeat repair. Definately not a great time. But glad to hear that it is past and now learning how to better prevent possible re0occurence.
I firmly believe the fluid restrictions serve to increase our reliance on fibrous foods, and a reduction in those foods that solidify such as flour products. While turkey dressing is great, I could eat it a couple times a week, it may be problematic to those of use that are fluid reduced.
My use of sucralose based water flavorings killed most ALL intestinal flora, leaving me 'watery'. For THREE MONTHS!
Didn't affect Daughter of Grandson a bit.
Probiotic capsules taken TWICE daily, instead of once, may have made a small improvement. IDK It was still over a month on the capsules before any change began. LOTS of yogert, bananas, fruits.
I was seriously wondering if I shouldn't have been sticking those capsule where the sun don't shine!
Charlie B53
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Instructions:
To make coconut milk kefir, place the milk kefir grains in coconut milk.
Stir with a non-metal spoon.
Cover with coffee filter or cloth, secured by a rubber band.
Culture at room temperature, 68°-85°F.
After 12 hours, begin checking the coconut milk kefir every few hours, up to a maximum of 24 hours.
How to Make Coconut Milk Kefir | Coconut Milk Kefir Recipe
www.culturesforhealth.com › coconut-mi...
Thanks Cassandra. I used to occasionally make my kefir using coconut milk and it's delicious. Problem is, coconut milk has almost the same phosphorus level as dairy milk. That's why I stopped drinking my goat kefir because it is high in phosph. I tried making it with almond milk and I didn't like it at all. The other problem with coconut milk is that the kefir culture ("the grains") need lactose in order to survive. So you have to give them access to real dairy on a pretty regular basis.
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Probiotic capsules taken TWICE daily, instead of once, may have made a small improvement. IDK It was still over a month on the capsules before any change began. LOTS of yogurt, bananas, fruits.
I was seriously wondering if I shouldn't have been sticking those capsule where the sun don't shine!
Charlie B53
Well I started Microbiota capsules 2 or three weeks ago, and it works fantastically. For the first time in like 3 years no diarrhea. And then I got my blood results from last week and also for the first time ever on HD my creatinine was below 1000! It was 720.
And then my PTH had dropped to 11 from 35. Nothing changed bar the Microbiota.
So I found out that when your flora in your gut doesn't work properly it is difficult to get spore elements like magnesium to 'normal' levels.
So more research said that a low magnesium level can increase PTH.
I'll discuss it with the Neph tomorrow, but have reduced my Cinacalcet already (2 times in 3 days as they are unbreakable i.s.o daily) to see with my next results if PTH is still okay, but less low.
And on top of that I feel quite good, not just okay, but good.
Love, luck, and strength to all, Cas. :cheer:
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I quit taking the probiotics once things 'firmed' up again. I have a few left in that bottle but I have another still sealed as I didn't know how much I would need and bought two.
Curios to know more, the one you are taking, are they different?
Is this a good idea to take a maintenance level?
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At the moment I'm taking Udo's choice containing 8 strands lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus rhamnosus, lactobacillus plantanum, bifidobacteria bifidum, bifidobacteria longim, lactobacterium longum and lactobacterium salvarius. I was told to start on a high dose for two Months and drop down to low dose after that..
When I was on PD I took Lactulose every day, so I wouldn't stop that if I were on PD now, but if I'd heard or read what I have now about what CKD does or can do to your bowels, I would have taken them from the moment I started D.
I'm just back from neph, and as probably always am wondering why I bother. She said Magnesium doesn't work lowering in D patients, okay it must be a miracle than, I'm looking forward to cancelling my next appointments.
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Folks, as you know, I am not on dialysis, but last May I lost part of my small intestines and colon due to another problem.
I have upped my probiotic intake phenomenally. I take a different kind with every meal. Since my knee replacements a little less than three weeks ago, I have been on oxycodone, which tends to bind you up. So far, I have been doing pretty well (with a bit of help from stool softeners, which I have to take once in a while anyway).
I am a firm believer in probiotics and keeping the gut happy.
Aleta