I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: kristina on January 08, 2016, 08:43:14 AM
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There have been reports about Mr. Donald Trump’s thoughts and ideas and particularly his allegations and tirades against Moslems.
Last month he suggested a controversial ban on Moslems entering the USA which has sparked outrage.
He also mentioned the fact that Germany is going through massive attacks to its people by (Moslem) migrants
allowed to enter their country and he stated that Germany was a “total mess"...
... Right now German police examine over 230 videos documenting German girls being sexually attacked, molested,
mugged and in some cases raped in many different major German cities by over 1000 Moslems on a New-Year's Eve-rampage,
after having kindly received political asylum by the German people ...
... All these Moslem refugees are supposedly escaping the evil in their own country... but right now it looks rather
as if they have travelled all the way to Germany to deliver evil to the German people who offered them political asylum...
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Be careful what you say, lest thee be denounced as racist.
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Be careful what you say, lest thee be denounced as racist.
I agree with you Simon! ... And that is precisely the reason why I have mentioned it !
The news bothers me immensely, because that sort of behaviour is completely illogical and makes no sense ...
... Of course, the facts are accurate and very true... but ... what on earth does it all mean?
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I'll risk being denounced.
I disagree with Trumps strange plan to register Mulsims, he has a point on immigration. If there is a population that is statistically at greater than average risk of harboring terrorists, is the US under any obligation to apply "equal opportunity" to those seeking to immigrate to the US? If the current PC attitudes where in place in the late 30's and early 40s, the US would allow Germans to immigrate to the US during WWII, as the majority of German people were peace loving and were not necessarily in alliance with their government.
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IMHO
The reason Trump has gained so much attention is he is saying what people know to be true but are afraid to say ....... either be accused of sexism, political incorrectness, bigotry, or racism. Pick one.
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Threatening to denounce someone as a racist is big business and can be very lucrative:
http://nypost.com/2015/01/04/how-sharpton-gets-paid-to-not-cry-racism-at-corporations/
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Personally if Donald Trump is elected President I am going to move to Canada. He is the only one who can make George W. Bush look like a great president. He is a spoiled brat that thinks he can say anything about anybody. What really scares me is if nominated he may destroy the Republican Party. From Lincoln to Trump, from greatness to a Clown. I only hope that the part of the party supporting him has a moment of clarity. If not women, Latinos, Blacks
Will all vote democratic in record numbers.
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I can't think of a better party to be destroyed.
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Personally if Donald Trump is elected President I am going to move to Canada.
I remember several Hollywood celebrities announced plans to move to Canada if Algore lost the election way back when. It turns out none of them actually delivered on the promise.
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I think The Donald says what people need to hear. I'd rather see Ben Carson, but he is slipping. But, still a good man!
Sounds like Hilary may find herself indited pretty soon. :cheer:
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"Migrant rape fears spread across Europe: Women told not to go out at night alone after assaults carried out in Sweden, Finland, Germany, Austria and Switzerland amid warnings gangs are co-ordinating attacks
• Sweden has issued warnings to women to be wary of potential attacks
• 15 young women have reported being groped by men in Kalmar, Sweden
• Austrian police have come under fire after claims attacks were covered-up
• Finnish police say they have information that the attacks are co-ordinated
• Vienna's police chief advises women not to go out on the streets alone
• Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers relieved of his duties over handling of New Year's Eve sex attacks
Security authorities are growing increasingly concerned by the rising number of sex attacks by gangs of migrants which appear to be spreading across Europe.
Finland and Sweden today became the latest European countries to issue warnings to women to be wary of the threat of sex attacks following fresh reports of sexual assaults in the last week, while the Viennese police chief adviced women not to go outside alone in Vienna.
The warnings come as reports emerged that Austrian and German police tried to cover-up the issue over fears of reprisal attacks on asylum seekers and damage to the countries' tourist trade.
Dozens of arrests have been made today in connection with the wave of recent sex attacks across Europe. "
Published: 16:16, 8 January 2016 | Updated: 17:59, 8 January 2016/ Daily Mail on line.
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Trump doesn't say what people need to hear, rather, he says what angry people WANT to hear. There's a big difference.
People NEED to hear much, much more about his specific policies and how he plans to implement them and how he will get Congress to pay for them. People might want to hear that he's going to build a great big wall with a beautiful door along the 1,000 mile border with Mexico, but people NEED to hear how he will pay for it and how he will choose which contractors will build it.
People WANT to hear how he will keep out all Muslims, but they NEED to hear how he plans to pay for the extra personnel to deploy at all border crossings to identify and detain and deport all those who are deemed to be Muslim. How will he decide who is Muslim and who might very well be Christian yet "look Muslim" and wants to escape the very barbarians we want to keep out of the US?
People may WANT to hear how he will blow Russian pilots out of the sky, but they NEED to hear how he will soothe Putin and cope with the aftermath and geopolitical catastrophe that will surely follow.
People NEED to hear how he, with his planet-sized ego, will perform as a diplomat.
People WANT to hear how he is such a great businessman, but they NEED to hear how he will run the US economy AND still provide for those of us who prove to be in the loss column (Medicare recipients, those on SSDI, most red states, etc). Does he plan to sell Mississippi because that state isn't making a profit in any form or fashion?
As for male migrants who are attacking women, arrest them and deport them. THEY are the criminals, not the women and children who have suffered so very much at the hands of the barbarians in Syria and elsewhere.
Give me ONE SINGLE example of Donald Trump answering a direct question concerning a specific policy promise he has made where he has outlined exactly how he will implement said policy.
Why would Hillary Clinton be indicted? On what charge? Is the Benghazi committee wasting more time and money?
What makes anyone say that Ben Carson is a "good man"? Who here knows him personally?
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IMHO
The reason Trump has gained so much attention is he is saying what people know to be true but are afraid to say ....... either be accused of sexism, political incorrectness, bigotry, or racism. Pick one.
What has he said that is true but others are afraid to say? Think hard before you answer. I am asking, "What has he said that is FACTUALLY true?" but that others are afraid to say?
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One of the unspoken truths about Islamic terrorism in the US is that a vast majority of the Moslems do not support or condone it. I would venture that all these plots that have been stopped were the result of Moslems reporting to the authorities. Make life miserable enough and that source of information will dry up. Every group has a wacko fringe, but to brand the entire group for the wackos is unAmerican.
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Does he plan to sell Mississippi because that state isn't making a profit in any form or fashion?
Although not necessarily a bad idea, who would buy it?
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
-Edmund Burke
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen Bernard West
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it"
-Albert Einstein
"Let's roll"
-Todd Morgan Beamer
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An inconvenient truth is that while the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, the chances of a Muslim entering the country being, or becoming, one is greater than the chances of a non-Muslim being or becoming one. The challenge is how can the US acknowledge the statistical reality of this without turning against its principles. So far, the approach has been to deny the statistical reality we face.
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An inconvenient truth is that while the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, the chances of a Muslim entering the country being, or becoming, one is greater than the chances of a non-Muslim being or becoming one. The challenge is how can the US acknowledge the statistical reality of this without turning against its principles. So far, the approach has been to deny the statistical reality we face.
:thumbup; Agreed. Our constitution is not a suicide pact.
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An inconvenient truth is that while the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, the chances of a Muslim entering the country being, or becoming, one is greater than the chances of a non-Muslim being or becoming one. The challenge is how can the US acknowledge the statistical reality of this without turning against its principles. So far, the approach has been to deny the statistical reality we face.
Just exactly what is this so called statistical reality? Perhaps what needs to be done is to define terrorism. If killings occur in urban areas or are committed by gangs or delusional white people who murder school children intheir classrooms,the word terrorist is never uttered. Armed anti government militias who occupy nature reserves are never described as terrorists, but they should be. I am much more concerned by armed americans who decide to shoot random people and go on shooting sprees because they have had a bad day.
Are white Americans never terrorists? Or is that yet another inconvenient truth?
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Sadly, these days if your skin is white, you're a Patriot. It it's darker, you're a Terrorist.
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An inconvenient truth is that while the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, the chances of a Muslim entering the country being, or becoming, one is greater than the chances of a non-Muslim being or becoming one. The challenge is how can the US acknowledge the statistical reality of this without turning against its principles. So far, the approach has been to deny the statistical reality we face.
And there is the inconvenient truth and statistical reality that a white, christian anti-government militia member will become a terrorist, too.
Remember April 19, 1995: A Ryder truck packed with nearly 5,000 pounds of explosives was detonated in front of the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, among them 19 children—most of whom were in the building’s daycare center. The youngest victim was 4 months old. More than 680 others of all ages were injured.
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If you examine history you. Will find many examples of home grown terrorism in our past . Most famously is the KKK would made it fashionable to beat, kill, maim those they opposed, any one not like them, If you need a example during the 1920s the KKK decided to organize South Bend, Indiana. The home of Notre Dame the Papist base in America. The results were not that common back then. The students beat the living hell out of the KKK members who arrived to put them in their place. The second worse terrorist attack has already been mentioned here it was caused by aryan nation types in Oklahoma City .
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Are white Americans never terrorists? Or is that yet another inconvenient truth?
They most certainly are, but I would venture to say that a smaller percentage of Americans (of all colors) become terrorists that Muslim immigrants. Remember, the numerator on the American side of the equation is 350 million people; it's probably in the few million (at most, just guessing) for Muslim immigrants.
I would guess that the ratio is smaller for Americans even when you factor in the militia nutjobs.
Statistics are established on populations as a whole. Citing a counter example makes as much statistical sense as "Aunt Millie smoked a pack a day and lived to 95, so your claims that statistics showing that smoking shortens life are not accurate".
Are you saying that it is not accurate to say that the chances of a Muslim immigrant being a terrorist are greater than the chances of a natural born American of the same age and sex being a terrorist is inaccurate? The answer is a simple "yes" or "no" - the response is not "terrorists come in all colors and religions" (which, while true, is not relevant to the statistical question at hand).
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There is also Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. There is also the terrorists shown in Geert Wilders short youtube film "Fitna".
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Kristina I understand your warning, but unfortunately in the United States we just can't seem to have the common sense to realize that people could have evil agendas and attach it to a group of people of color or religion that keep proving it. We call it racism if that is even put together.
We have 2 hard working tax paying ranchers in prison because a controlled burn got on some federal land yet we are letting the Getmo prisoners go free to join up with the brotherhood again.
:banghead;
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We have 2 hard working tax paying ranchers in prison because a controlled burn got on some federal land yet we are letting the Getmo prisoners go free to join up with the brotherhood again.
:banghead;
Hard working, tax paying people who commit a federal crime should be punished as required by law. The fact that they are described as such does not mean they are above the law.
We are letting Gitmo prisoners go free because there is not the political will to do anything else with them, and the American people are not brave enough to have them tried in an American court of law. No US governor or Senator will allow any of them to be put in a jail on US soil (other than Gitmo). It's a disgrace and gives the world yet one more reason to believe that Americans "talk the talk" but do not "walk the walk".
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... but I would venture to say ...(at most, just guessing)
I would guess ...
Well, that's just not good enough, frankly, in a discussion like this where there is a real danger of making sweeping generalizations.
Are you saying that it is not accurate to say that the chances of a Muslim immigrant being a terrorist are greater than the chances of a natural born American of the same age and sex being a terrorist is inaccurate? The answer is a simple "yes" or "no" - the response is not "terrorists come in all colors and religions" (which, while true, is not relevant to the statistical question at hand).
Can this even be quantified? A particular Muslim immigrant could be radicalized tomorrow, and the same could be said for some white dude. One doesn't know what might be a particular person's trigger or tipping point. What are the chances of some white kid becoming a neo-Nazi and deciding to kill a bunch of people IN CHURCH? How does one statistically measure "chance"?
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Can this even be quantified? A particular Muslim immigrant could be radicalized tomorrow, and the same could be said for some white dude. One doesn't know what might be a particular person's trigger or tipping point. What are the chances of some white kid becoming a neo-Nazi and deciding to kill a bunch of people IN CHURCH? How does one statistically measure "chance"?
Sure, risk can be quantified. It's called statistics. Just think of risk analysis of smoking. Smokers are at higher risk of lung cancer, but smoking does not guarantee one will get lung cancer, and not smoking will not guarantee you will not.
Let A = # of American born people committing terrorists acts / Population of US
Let B = # of immigrants from Muslim nations immigrating to the US and committing terrorist acts / # of such immigrants
Using the same time period for "A" and "B".
Then, compare A and B. If you still wonder if the different is statistically significant, use the T-test.
Well, that's just not good enough, frankly, in a discussion like this where there is a real danger of making sweeping generalizations.
Some conclusions based on publicly accessibe numbers
Immigrant population according to http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states: 13%.
This means that there should be 6.69 times as many non-immigrant American terrorists as immigrants.
One the US side: Unabomber; Church Shooter; McVeigh
One the Immigrant side: 1st world trade center attach; 2nd world trade center attach; San Bernadino Attach
The Ft Bragg shooting is interesting since it was a non-immigrant who subscribed to the Muslim religion, but we can include him in the list of American terrorists.
I am not counting the CO theater shooting, as there is no evidence that was done for political purposes. But, if you expand the definition of terrorism you can include that.
No matter how you add it up, I find it hard to conceive we have close to 7 times the native terrorists as imported ones.
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I wouldn't put too much faith in statistics. Remember what wise man, Mark Twain, said: ""There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Many hate crimes go unreported and have little press especially when committed by homegrown white sicko dudes--since they are considered "Patriots" and rarely are labeled "terrorists." The term "terrorist" has become meaningless since even peaceful activists are broadly labeled as committing terrorist activity.
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2016/01/04/antigovernment-militia-groups-grew-more-one-third-last-year
https://www.splcenter.org/timeline-land-use-and-patriots
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files Extremists in the U.S. come in many different forms – white nationalists, anti-gay zealots, black separatists, racist skinheads, neo-Confederates and more.
Extremist groups: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups You can see a list of 44 hate groups that are breeding home-grown potential "terrorists" e.g.
America's Promise Ministries
Located in a section of the Pacific Northwest that was a notorious hotbed of white supremacist activity in the 1990s, America's Promise Ministry is both a Christian Identity church and a major publisher and distributor of right-wing extremist tracts.
American Border Patrol/American Patrol
American Border Patrol/American Patrol (the first-listed group was essentially an Arizona extension of American Patrol, which is also known as Voice of Citizens Together) is one of the most virulent anti-immigrant groups around.
American Family Association
Initially founded as the National Federation for Decency, the American Family Association (AFA) originally focused on what it considered indecent television programming and pornography. The AFA says it promotes "traditional moral values" in media.
American Freedom Party
The American Freedom Party (formerly American Third Position) is a political party initially established by racist Southern California skinheads that aims to deport immigrants and return the United States to white rule.
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I wouldn't put too much faith in statistics.
Statistics is what drives medical treatment decisions; drug approvals; etc. They can be used to either enlighten or mislead.
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I suppose that risk can be quantified as that is what the insurance industry does every day, but "chance" is something altogether different, especially when you are talking about human behavior. What is the statistical likelihood that a young white man will become a neo-Nazi and will murder a church full of people? Has any insurance broker or claims assessor thought to quantify that risk?
Terrorism is defined as a series of acts that instill terror, so that would mean that any mass shooting perpetrated by an individual or group would match that description, so one would have to include all of the various school shootings and cinema shootings and church shootings and the kind of mass shootings we see usually caused by US naturally born citizens. All of the talk about how the way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun shows that we are a terrorized population. Gun sales are booming because people feel terrorized. At the town hall meeting about guns with the President, as people talked about why they wanted to have a gun, no one explained that they wanted to be able to protect their kids from Muslim extremists. What about that guy who was randomly shooting at people as they drove on I-10 in Arizona? Boy, talk about instilling terror! How about the nutcase who shot all of those people at and around that PP clinic?
We can talk about statistics if you'd like, but when it gets right down to it, as you go about your daily life, from whom do you feel the greatest threat? I personally feel more at threat from some random white guy who has a beef with the owner of my local grocery store than from a Muslim immigrant terrorist. I don't feel the need to ban all Muslims from entering the US, but I sure wish that the police were better trained in conflict resolution. That's a different sort of terrorism, I suppose.
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Terrorism is defined as a series of acts that instill terror
Not necessarily, some definitions include "for a political purpose".
As to protection - One can have a situation where the risk of any one individual being a terrorist are greater for certain segments of society, but the odds are that if you are a victim of a terrorist, that it will be a person not a member of that segment.
I personally feel more at threat from some random white guy who has a beef with the owner of my local grocery store than from a Muslim immigrant terrorist.
Same here.
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Maybe the percentage of terrorism acts commited in western countries by people who are moslims, goes hand in hand with the amount of wars started or escalated by those western countries? However, the reason why terrorism by moslims in moslim countries themselves is at least a hundred times worse than in western countries is still a mystery to me.
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Maybe the percentage of terrorism acts commited in western countries by people who are moslims, goes hand in hand with the amount of wars started or escalated by those western countries? However, the reason why terrorism by moslims in moslim countries themselves is at least a hundred times worse than in western countries is still a mystery to me.
The way Islam is practiced and observed is different in different cultures, just as the way Christianity is practiced and observed in, say, a primarily Protestant country versus a primarily Catholic country.
We in the West are very Western-centric in that we go ballistic about terrorist acts in Paris (and rightly so) but don't hear so much about the atrocities committed by Boko Haram, and we conveniently forget that the vast majority of victims of these sorts of attacks are other Muslims. And we certainly don't hear anything at all about the persecution of Muslims in, say, Burma.
I have no doubt that western military actions in Muslim countries are a contributing factor, which brings us all back to the original question, which is about "What would Donald Trump do?" Somehow, I don't see him being a calming influence in the black hole that is the Middle East. But if he becomes the President of the United States, all sorts of Middle Eastern leaders (including Israel) will be pushing and pulling him in all different directions. I have seen nothing about him so far that leads me to believe that he will work effectively for peace.
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And we certainly don't hear anything at all about the persecution of Muslims in, say, Burma.
Myanmar’s Peace Prize Winner and Crimes Against Humanity
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/opinion/sunday/myanmars-peace-prize-winner-and-crimes-against-humanity.html
And our Peace Prize-winner seems to be doing nothing about it, either.
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Exactly, Zach. Such a disappointment.
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:boxing; As a former infantry soldier I'd rather avoid violent confrontations with diplomacy. That said, the Islamic movement for the last 1,400 years has left millions of heads of infidels in its wake as
its spread across Asia into Europe and down into Africa. After reading "Because they Hate" and a few other books ringing the alarm, I'm inclined to regard them as a fanatic, tricky enemy.
I think they should be terminated with extreme prejudice, and not because of their skin color.
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:boxing;
I think they should be terminated with extreme prejudice, and not because of their skin color.
'They' are people who belief in a certain 'religion'. And as you know religion, any religion has no color. Not even the Jewish one.
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Actually the number of terrorists is much higher, Alanta Olympic bomber, Colorado theater shooter, sandy hook school shooter, the moron who shot a NYC cop, Beltway sniper, Coleen LaRosa known as jihad Jane, and the little rock recruiting office shooting. This is just a quick list I am sure there are more. Remember the NRA doesn't think that terrorist pose enough threat that we should ban them from buying guns.
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Remember the NRA doesn't think that terrorist pose enough threat that we should ban them from buying guns.
Actually the NRA was the first to propose background checks and is adamantly trying to get government agencies to share information to put "unstable and illegal" people on the do not sell list during a background check. How "unstable" is defined is part of the problem..... (aren't we all).
But the gun grabbers (those who want to take them all away) don't let little facts like that get in the way.
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Actually the number of terrorists is much higher, Alanta Olympic bomber, Colorado theater shooter, sandy hook school shooter, the moron who shot a NYC cop, Beltway sniper, Coleen LaRosa known as jihad Jane, and the little rock recruiting office shooting. This is just a quick list I am sure there are more. Remember the NRA doesn't think that terrorist pose enough threat that we should ban them from buying guns.
The problem is one of "due process". There is no process to challenge one's presence on the "terrorist watch list"; see the evidence used against you; or confront your accusers. I doubt the NRA would have any objection to banning those found guilty of terrorism in a court of law from buying guns. Actually, that's already the case (see the felon ban in 18 USC 922g)
The equation is simple:
1. Like it or not, gun ownership is a constitutional right in the US
2. Constitutional rights should only be taken by due process
To use a driving analogy - Imagine if we had a "drunk watch list" to protect the public from a threat that kills far more people than terrorists in the US every year. Now, assume that the list is secret; you can ask the agency to put you on the list to review their decision; but you cannot see why you are on the list; who informed the police you are a drunk; or confront any witnesses against you. Assume further that any police agency in the country can put you on a national "DUI watch list" (banned from having a driving license) based on suspicion; informants; the fact that you are friends with habitual drunks; etc.
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There have been reports about Mr. Donald Trump’s thoughts and ideas and particularly his allegations and tirades against Moslems.
Last month he suggested a controversial ban on Moslems entering the USA which has sparked outrage.
He also mentioned the fact that Germany is going through massive attacks to its people by (Moslem) migrants
allowed to enter their country and he stated that Germany was a “total mess"...
... Right now German police examine over 230 videos documenting German girls being sexually attacked, molested,
mugged and in some cases raped in many different major German cities by over 1000 Moslems on a New-Year's Eve-rampage,
after having kindly received political asylum by the German people ...
... All these Moslem refugees are supposedly escaping the evil in their own country... but right now it looks rather
as if they have travelled all the way to Germany to deliver evil to the German people who offered them political asylum...
Today (6th February 2016) many public demonstrations are taking place in different major cities of 14 (?) European Countries
to protest against an "Islamisation of the West" ... The aim of these demonstrations is supposedly
to "preserve our European culture, save our European countries and save our future"...
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1. Like it or not, gun ownership is a constitutional right in the US
2. Constitutional rights should only be taken by due process
Nice how for guns people quote the constitution but for religion (and terrorism perceived risk) we completely ignore due process.
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There have been reports about Mr. Donald Trump’s thoughts and ideas and particularly his allegations and tirades against Moslems.
Last month he suggested a controversial ban on Moslems entering the USA which has sparked outrage.
He also mentioned the fact that Germany is going through massive attacks to its people by (Moslem) migrants
allowed to enter their country and he stated that Germany was a “total mess"...
... Right now German police examine over 230 videos documenting German girls being sexually attacked, molested,
mugged and in some cases raped in many different major German cities by over 1000 Moslems on a New-Year's Eve-rampage,
after having kindly received political asylum by the German people ...
... All these Moslem refugees are supposedly escaping the evil in their own country... but right now it looks rather
as if they have travelled all the way to Germany to deliver evil to the German people who offered them political asylum...
P.S. Apart from Mr. Donald Trump's thoughts about Moslems, there have been many reports about Moslems travelling to Syria in order to fight for an Islamic State.
Does anyone know what that means and why it would have to be Syria because, after all, there are already many Moslem/Islamic states in existence, starting alphabetically with Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Morocco etc. continuing with Saudi Arabia and so many other Moslem/Islamic countries/states ? Does anyone know what could be so very special about Syria, their armed conflict and what it all means ?
Thanks from Kristina.
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Several reasons first the capital of the Islamic state is in Raqqa a city in Syria, second the US monitors the Iraqi and Iraq still controls the border with turkey. This means entry into Syria is easier .
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I do not claim to know the whole truth or to be all knowing, but here is what I understand so far. The Islamic state/Isol/Isis is not a state. They are a group of barbaric fanatics who were created from the rebels and chaos of the war of Iraq according to documentaries I saw (on Frontline?) They do not represent islam, nor do they do they represent the 1.6 billion moslems in the world. They are trying to take over the world and impose their barbaric sick views. They have found the eastern part of Syria to be a safe heaven since the country fell into the chaos of the Syrian civil war that was created by Syrian oposition group who were supported by many powers to be to overthrow Syria's president Assad. Syrians are caught in the middle and have been escaping the horrors of the war, the bombings, the beheadings by isol forced recruits, and starvations.. The Russians and Syrian government are fighting the Syrian opposition rebels bombing their stronghold. The U.S., our western allies, arab allies are bombing the barbaric (isis/isol) fanatics strong holds. With all the fighting and bombings the countries infrastructure has been mostly destroyed. The barbaric fanatics are looking for recruits in the west and they are doing so using strong social media campagnes targeting (brain washing) young impressionable minds.
Is your heading spinning like mine? Are you sorry you asked?
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And don't forget that Saudi Arabia (lots of money, lots of weapons (lots of British weapons) is supporting every opposition party in Syria because they want to get rid of Bashar al-Assad.
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I do not claim to know the whole truth or to be all knowing, but here is what I understand so far. The Islamic state/Isol/Isis is not a state. They are a group of barbaric fanatics who were created from the rebels and chaos of the war of Iraq according to documentaries I saw (on Frontline?) They do not represent islam, nor do they do they represent the 1.6 billion moslems in the world. They are trying to take over the world and impose their barbaric sick views. They have found the eastern part of Syria to be a safe heaven since the country fell into the chaos of the Syrian civil war that was created by Syrian oposition group who were supported by many powers to be to overthrow Syria's president Assad. Syrians are caught in the middle and have been escaping the horrors of the war, the bombings, the beheadings by isol forced recruits, and starvations.. The Russians and Syrian government are fighting the Syrian opposition rebels bombing their stronghold. The U.S., our western allies, arab allies are bombing the barbaric (isis/isol) fanatics strong holds. With all the fighting and bombings the countries infrastructure has been mostly destroyed. The barbaric fanatics are looking for recruits in the west and they are doing so using strong social media campagnes targeting (brain washing) young impressionable minds.
Is your heading spinning like mine? Are you sorry you asked?
Many thanks for your kind thoughts, Michael Murphy, hatedialysis2, and cassandra ... and to answer your question,hatedialysis2 : yes, my head is spinning quite a bit already ... and it is most fascinating to read about the possible candidates for Presidency and it is quite enlightening and makes one think to read how the "Anti-Donald-Trump-Campaign" brings in heavy - and not to underestimate - influences like the Pope etc. and the Pope criticizing Donald Trump's idea of trying to make entry into the USA more difficult (to interpret this comment very mildly) ... and then ... everyone knows that there are very protective walls surrounding the Vatican and ... how very difficult it is for anyone to enter the Vatican and try and make an appointment with the Pope ... but the Pope criticizing Donald Trump's idea to make entry into the USA even more difficult in the future...
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The current Pope is not the one who mandated that a wall was to be built around the Vatican. Donald Trump is the man who is declaring that he will build a wall that does not currently exist. Look at the United States border with Mexico. How much is it going to cost to construct a high enough, strong enough wall to deter people from entering illegally? If you look at crossings in, say, San Diego and El Paso, thousands of people cross legally every day for work and for commerce. By far, more people come to the US legally via airports and outstay their visas; THIS is where security needs to be tightened. All of this talk about building a "beautiful wall" is solely to convince people that they should be very scared and that the United States is crumbling.
Tourists visit Vatican City every day. The "Vatican Wall" stops no one.
It is no more difficult to get an audience with the Pope than it is to get an audience with the President or David Cameron, which isn't to say that it isn't difficult.
If you think it is easy to get into the US even legally, well, the last time I returned to O'Hare from Heathrow, we had just landed and were taxiing toward the "parking spot". BTW, this was a British Airways flight that I was on. Anyway, the cabin crew starting yelling, "As you exit the plane, have your passports out, open to the photo page, ready for immediate inspection." They kept yelling this over and over. Now, I've been on MANY flights from London to the US, and I've never heard this before. So, we all did as told, and as we exited the aircraft, right there at the door were FIVE fully armed and uniformed immigration officers. I've never seen that, and it was pretty chilling. Felt like I was entering a police state. I felt bad for the people who might be arriving in the US for the very first time. Talk about bad first impression!
The real Anti-Trump campaign has its genesis in the monied Republican establishment. They are really pushing for Rubio as they believe that Ted Cruz is a really nasty piece of work with an ego the size of a small planet.
Kristina, if you are interested in Donald Trump, I urge you to listen to some of his town hall meetings/debates. He says he is going to do this and that he is going to do that, but there has never been one single time when he has given any specifics on how this or that will be done. He has asked repeatedly for details, and when answering he will veer off about how great it will be and how much everyone loves him. Other candidates will give details on how they plan to fund this plan or that plan. Now, you may hate the plans and decide they're never going to work, but at least there is something you can get your head around.
As for the chaos in the Middle East, Britain bears the brunt of responsibility. The Ottoman Empire made the wrong decision in choosing the losing side in WWI, so the winners led by the British drew arbitrary lines across the middle east that gave Britain what she wanted and France what she wanted. The victors of wars write history, and the story has not been a good one.
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The Vatican wall were built during the Middle Ages when every city built them. For the record the introduction of cannons made them moot. Vatican walls were built to stop medical armies. This is possibly the most obtuse comparison I hane ever seen. As George Patton stated fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man.
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I wonder if St. Francis's remarks about trump where metaphorically? In either case the pope is obviously a uniter, Donald Trump is a divider. Anyone who criticize him is stupid and an enemy to be destroyed! Town halls are really where you get to here out the candidates. I was pleasantly surprised with what Jeb Bush and John Kaisich had to offer and how they were successful in balancing budgets and reducing deficits as governors.
Here are some quotes I found inspiring in this climate of division by Cruz, Rubio, Carson, and Trump . The quotes were copied from http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/division
"When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you.”
― Winston S. Churchill
All for one and one for all, united we stand divided we fall.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers
"To vastly improve your country and truly make it great again, start by choosing a better leader. Do not let the media or the establishment make you pick from the people they choose, but instead choose from those they do not pick. Pick a leader from among the people who is heart-driven, one who identifies with the common man on the street and understands what the country needs on every level. Do not pick a leader who is only money-driven and does not understand or identify with the common man, but only what corporations need on every level.
Pick a peacemaker. One who unites, not divides. A cultured leader who supports the arts and true freedom of speech, not censorship. Pick a leader who will not only bail out banks and airlines, but also families from losing their homes -- or jobs due to their companies moving to other countries. Pick a leader who will fund schools, not limit spending on education and allow libraries to close. Pick a leader who chooses diplomacy over war. An honest broker in foreign relations. A leader with integrity, one who says what they mean, keeps their word and does not lie to their people. Pick a leader who is strong and confident, yet humble. Intelligent, but not sly. A leader who encourages diversity, not racism. One who understands the needs of the farmer, the teacher, the doctor, and the environmentalist -- not only the banker, the oil tycoon, the weapons developer, or the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyist.
Pick a leader who will keep jobs in your country by offering companies incentives to hire only within their borders, not one who allows corporations to outsource jobs for cheaper labor when there is a national employment crisis. Choose a leader who will invest in building bridges, not walls. Books, not weapons. Morality, not corruption. Intellectualism and wisdom, not ignorance. Stability, not fear and terror. Peace, not chaos. Love, not hate. Convergence, not segregation. Tolerance, not discrimination. Fairness, not hypocrisy. Substance, not superficiality. Character, not immaturity. Transparency, not secrecy. Justice, not lawlessness. Environmental improvement and preservation, not destruction. Truth, not lies.
Most importantly, a great leader must serve the best interests of the people first, not those of multinational corporations. Human life should never be sacrificed for monetary profit. There are no exceptions. In addition, a leader should always be open to criticism, not silencing dissent. Any leader who does not tolerate criticism from the public is afraid of their dirty hands to be revealed under heavy light. And such a leader is dangerous, because they only feel secure in the darkness. Only a leader who is free from corruption welcomes scrutiny; for scrutiny allows a good leader to be an even greater leader.
And lastly, pick a leader who will make their citizens proud. One who will stir the hearts of the people, so that the sons and daughters of a given nation strive to emulate their leader's greatness. Only then will a nation be truly great, when a leader inspires and produces citizens worthy of becoming future leaders, honorable decision makers and peacemakers. And in these times, a great leader must be extremely brave. Their leadership must be steered only by their conscience, not a bribe.”
― Suzy Kassem, Rise Up and Salute the Sun: The Writings of Suzy Kassem
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Many thanks MooseMom , Michael Murphy and hatedialysis2 for your thoughtful comments ... and I stand corrected....
...nevertheless, even though the wall around the Vatican was built ages ago (847-855 ?) , so was the Berlin Wall (August 13, 1961) and the Berlin Wall is no longer...
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I don't know anything about Donald Trump's business interests, but I am wondering if he does become the GOP nominee and/or becomes President, will he have to sell off any of his assets or change his business practices in any way to avoid conflicts of interest? Anyone know?
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I don't know anything about Donald Trump's business interests, but I am wondering if he does become the GOP nominee and/or becomes President, will he have to sell off any of his assets or change his business practices in any way to avoid conflicts of interest? Anyone know?
Here is a peek at 'the maybe':
Donald Trump won't put his multi-billion dollar business empire into a blind trust to avoid any conflicts of interest if he's elected president of the United States. Instead, his three oldest children will run it, Trump said during Thursday's GOP debate.
"I couldn't care less about my company," Trump said. "It's peanuts."
Trump said he would not be involved in any business decisions and daughter Ivanka, 34, and sons Don, 38, and Eric, 32, would "run it with my executives."
(remove the @ and copy and paste to use)
@http://donald-trump.leadstories.com/414901-donald-trump-blind-trust.html
Aside from any of my political leanings, I would find it a rare attribute in any politician, to be totally truthful and honest.
At least is how I view most elected officials, at all levels of government.
Ha, all feelings and thoughts here are based on the past and current Chicago and Illinois politicians.
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Thanks for that, talker; I had heard that he plans to hand things over to his kids, but I'd forgotten, so thanks for the reminder.
And yes, I know what you are saying about Chicago and Illinois politicians. I have no idea what Rauner and the state legislature is going to do about the budget.
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Well, here we are with the beginnings of an "Anti-Trump" movement, officially starting off with Mitt Romney's speech today. How do you all feel about this?
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The real question is what is going to come out in the New York State lawsuit over the Trump University. It looks like it will be going on throughout the election year. 36000 for a picture with a cut out of the Donald and a useless set of lessons.
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If Trump wins the presidency, I hope he can be as effective in screwing the Iranians as he was in screwing his so-called students.
There is another interesting story about a buyer who lost over $350K on a condo deposit in Trump development, only to find out Trump was not the developer (he just licensed use of his name) and bore no liability.
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Well, here we are with the beginnings of an "Anti-Trump" movement, officially starting off with Mitt Romney's speech today. How do you all feel about this?
However you feel about Mr Trump ........ Mitt Romney had his day and IMHO should stay the heck out of it!
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The number of people who have been mistreated by trump or his organization is enormous. One of the news show did a story on a trump condo complex in Panama. They were running a hotel in the complex and also were managing the condos. For several years thr trump organization billed hotel expenses to the condo owners. Finally the owners got together and threw trump out. Trump responded by sueing the condo owners for 75 million. The list of people who have been damaged by him is long.
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The number of people who have been mistreated by trump or his organization is enormous.
Lets hope he can use this skill in dealing with Iran.
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I am afraid of trump ! Everything is going along fine for us, medical, SS checks, Rx affordable, not in a high income group, so no taxes, l think Obama has done an outstanding job, in spite of Repubs blocking all his ideas ! A the very least, he cares about people ! My hopeful choice is Hillary to keep it going ! All that stuff about emails is stupid, she wouldn't do anything illegal, what would it benefit her ? It's Repubs trying to take her out .
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Everyone needs to get on the Trump Train to prevent the Hildabeast from taking over!
:bandance; :2thumbsup; :clap; :beer1;
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Everyone needs to get on the Trump Train to prevent the Hildabeast from taking over!
:bandance; :2thumbsup; :clap; :beer1;
Trump is low life scum who takes pride in F'ing people over in business deals. Just look at his history of harassing people in a rent controlled building he bought to get them out, or how people lost hundreds of thousands in deposits on a banrupt Trump condo - only to find out it was a "name licensing" not backed by Trump at all. And then there is the complete ignorance of the constitution he demonstrates with some of his proposals.
That being said, you are absolutely right. The Hildabeast must be stopped at the ballot box at all costs.
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My position since this election season began has been ABH......... ANYBODY BUT HILLARY!
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Give Bernie Sander a lookover. He has held a consistent counter-establishment position for decades. He believes the system is rigged against us (as do I) and will fight to bring us back to some sound values and priorities. He is honest, consistent and is for We the People not we the billionaires.
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I will say this for Bernie when AT&T in 1999 froze my pension to 1992 and changed my pension to a cash balance that was illegal. Bernie was the only one in Congress who spoke out about it. George Bush the lesser had the IRS hold back ruling on the change until AT&T became the biggest Corporate donor to Republican Congress candidates. When the Republicans got enough votes the made what was done retroactively legal but banned it for the future. Effectively AT&T pocketed billions and I was laid off in 2004 with the exact pension benefits I had in 1992. This cut my pension in half. Now I have a reduced pension, a absolute loathing for republicans and a soft spot for Bernie.
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Personally, I dont think anyone on earth that has been in business or politics is Snow White. Many have nothing but bad to say about The Donald and many have nothing but good to say. I just personally like most of what he has to say. There are at this moment 5 people running for the same job. Bernie Sanders is a nice old man. Hillary Clinton is an ungodly witch. John Kasich is a do nothing guy and Lyin Ted is just that. This is all my HO and I know a lot of you won't agree with it. But, you can all argue until the cows come home and we will see who will be being sworn in with his hand on the HOLY BIBLE on Jan. 20, 2017. I am betting my .50cents on Trump. If you are on the side of the people who want our country to be great again you will put your .50cents up too.
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I am betting my .50cents on Trump. If you are on the side of the people who want our country to be great again you will put your .50cents up too.
If by "great again" you mean a return to unbridled hate, white supremacy, xenophobia, and misogyny with a man at the helm who is totally ignorant about the ways of the world and our constitution, then Trump's the man. Trump is a thug. Pure and simple.
I agree with some of the things he says, e.g. that the Iraq war was a colossal mistake, and that the system is rigged. But even a clock is right twice a day. For many of the same positions-- but in the hands of a rational, sane, experienced man, my vote goes to Sanders. We should all be as "old" as he is and able to keep up wit with a non-stop campaign schedule.
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If by "great again" you mean a return to unbridled hate, white supremacy, xenophobia, and misogyny with a man at the helm who is totally ignorant about the ways of the world and our constitution, then Trump's the man. Trump is a thug. Pure and simple.
:thumbup; I agree.
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If by "great again" you mean a return to unbridled hate, white supremacy, xenophobia, and misogyny with a man at the helm who is totally ignorant about the ways of the world and our constitution, then Trump's the man. Trump is a thug. Pure and simple.
Well said K&S!
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Actually, the era you are describing is right now!!! In MY HO, all or mostly brought on by our current POTUS who has divided this nation to a point it was at when the Civil War was fought. If you want to describe Trump as a thug, that works for me too, because the nations whose behinds we are kissing need a thug to straighten their butts out.
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Actually, the era you are describing is right now!!! In MY HO, all or mostly brought on by our current POTUS who has divided this nation to a point it was at when the Civil War was fought. If you want to describe Trump as a thug, that works for me too, because the nations whose behinds we are kissing need a thug to straighten their butts out.
:thx; Well said.
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Everyone needs to get on the Trump Train to prevent the Hildabeast from taking over!
:bandance; :2thumbsup; :clap; :beer1;
Trump is low life scum who takes pride in F'ing people over in business deals. Just look at his history of harassing people in a rent controlled building he bought to get them out, or how people lost hundreds of thousands in deposits on a banrupt Trump condo - only to find out it was a "name licensing" not backed by Trump at all. And then there is the complete ignorance of the constitution he demonstrates with some of his proposals.
That being said, you are absolutely right. The Hildabeast must be stopped at the ballot box at all costs.
NONSENSE! Have you started with a few million and became a BILLIONAIRE? Trump has accomplished more than you ever could in your WILDEST dreams! America has not had a businessman in the white house in many DECADES! Aren't you sick and tired of governors and senators over and over for president? We need something else for a change! Just give him 4 years and if it doesn't work out the people will vote him out!
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If Trump is elected, his advisers will be working overtime saying things like "You can't say that Mr President", "This is what will happen if we do that", "No, you can't actually do that Mr President". If the Hildebeast is elected, she will be working overtime to disarm me and take my assets to transfer to some welfare person or pay for more Obamaphones (an abomination that should never have been created).
So, government by un-named back room advisors or Hillary. Not much of a choice.
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Actually, the era you are describing is right now!!! In MY HO, all or mostly brought on by our current POTUS who has divided this nation to a point it was at when the Civil War was fought. If you want to describe Trump as a thug, that works for me too, because the nations whose behinds we are kissing need a thug to straighten their butts out.
EXACTLY! Race relations are at a 4 decade LOW thanks to Obummer! Black unemployment is much worse under Obama than before he came to office! Even prominent black PBS journalist said he's VERY disappointed with Obama because blacks are worse off in every category under Obummer! EVERY category!
Trump would do more for blacks & minorities than Obummer could do in his wildest dreams!! The brother of civil rights icon Medgar Evers has endorsed Trump! Other prominent black supporters of Trump include world famous neurosurgeon Ben Carson, Herman Cain, & Omarosa. Also google "Diamond and Silk" to see 2 everyday black women who have a large following who LOVE Trump!
Even Tavis Smiley said Trump could get about 20 percent of the black vote which is a LOT more than any other GOP candidate has gotten! It is pure NONSENSE that Trump is racist! Explain how the brother of a CIVIL RIGHTS icon supports Trump?
Pathetic liberals have NO argument except give everyone free stuff and open the borders to drive down wages! So you race bait and SCREAM racism all day! That's one reason why race relations are at such a LOW point! Americans are SICK & TIRED of race baiting and don't want to hear it anymore!!
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Back in 2005 I was sold on trumps real estate course. When I got hiome with the materials and checked the member only site I quickly realized it was false promises and was worthless. Even though I was within legal time to get my money back they gave me the run around. I had to call an attorney to send them a letter. I can't tell you how disappointed I was because at that time I thought the world of Trump. Yes you can make millions as a con artist.
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If Trump is elected, his advisers will be working overtime saying things like "You can't say that Mr President", "This is what will happen if we do that", "No, you can't actually do that Mr President". If the Hildebeast is elected, she will be working overtime to disarm me and take my assets to transfer to some welfare person or pay for more Obamaphones (an abomination that should never have been created).
So, government by un-named back room advisors or Hillary. Not much of a choice.
Unfortunately this is the most accurate assumption. I fear for our country that this is the best we can do ....... but I must agree with Gone forever..... I am sick of the political class (on all sides) that treats us like idiots, steals from us, does whatever is needed to get re-elected, and show NO SHAME what so ever.
Stay involved ...... if a non politician screws it up even more ....kick him/her out also. I just wish people, including the politicians, would vote for what is good for the country .... which is not always the best for a particular individual.
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Back in 2005 I was sold on trumps real estate course. When I got hiome with the materials and checked the member only site I quickly realized it was false promises and was worthless. Even though I was within legal time to get my money back they gave me the run around. I had to call an attorney to send them a letter. I can't tell you how disappointed I was because at that time I thought the world of Trump. Yes you can make millions as a con artist.
As if established politicians haven't been involved in shady dealings and on a MUCH bigger scale? Look at the Clintons and whitewater or Reagan and Iran/Contra! Those were FAR bigger than Trump's rinky dink real estate course! Reagan & Clinton were both 2 term presidents! Don't forget that many students of Trump universite were satisfied and gave it high approval ratings!
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There are numerous examples of Trump screwing people over:
- The Panama development where he billed the condo association in a mixed development for the hotel expenses - and sued the association when it sued him over these charges
- The guy who put a few hundred $K down on a Trump condo in FL, only to find that Trump did not back it at all, and bore no liability when it went belly up. In fact, he was ordered to pay Trumps legal fees.
- The apartment building be bought then used every trick in the book, including letting homeless people into vacant units, to get the rent controlled occupants to move
- Offering "hand picked" real estate instructors in his class that he had never even met
- Fraudulent calling his school a "University" in states where use of that term had certain legal requirements - which he had not met.
If he is elected, I hope for two things:
- That he is as ruthless in dealing with Iran and our so-called trading partners as he has been in his business dealings
- That he uses his business skills to screw our opponents, not the American people
As to shady business deals - Trump has a history of victimizing people, not doing nation level skullduggery. His morality is "if I can get away without without being indicted, it's the right thing to do".
The Clintons have a history of taking bribes (er, I mean "speaking fees" and "Clinton foundation donations") and slimey dealings (Whitewater), but don't seem to have a history of setting up business deals to screw individuals to extract money from gullible people looking to get rich by taking a "believe you can do it" seminar.
That being said, I fear the Hildebeast and what she can do to the country more than Trump.
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... youtube provides us with a most illuminating political campaign trail about Mr. Donald Trump :
"The Fifth Estate 2016 - The Fire Breather: The Rise and Rage of Donald Trump Full" (41 minutes) ...
... worth watching ...
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Dialysisgoneforever, race relations have always been pretty bad, but they are not worse because of Obama, rather, they are worse because of the rest of us. There is a significant portion of white America that cannot bear the progress symbolized by the election of an African American President for not one but TWO terms of office. So these people have unleashed their racial resentment and have shielded themselves behind such catch phrases as "We want our country back". The blatant disrespect....the UNPARALLED disrespect...shown to this man has been embarrassing and has shown the world that the United States of America is just as racist now as ever. Racism has become OK because people are "tired of being politically correct", whatever the hell that means. I guess some people want permission to be openly racist or sexist or every other kind of -ist.
If your idea of outspoken members of the black community are people like Herman Cain and Ben "No, I'm not asleep" Carson, well, I need not say more. Sure, it would have been great if the Obama Administration could have done more for African Americans, but it would have been great if his administration could have done more for ALL people who need help. But you see, there is this pesky institution called "Congress", and since the GOP has a majority there, nothing is going to be done for anyone. They won't even allow a vote on a Supreme Court nomination, so what makes you think they are going to help the likes of you?
The election of Obama has removed the veil, and the racists have come out to play. This American is sick and tired of tirades like yours where you conveniently blame one man for the rise of racism in this country. People should take responsibility for their own dark racist sentiments instead of projecting them onto our democratically elected president.
Just you watch; if Hillary Clinton become president, the misogynists will have a field day. They will want to take their country back to a time where white men make all of the decisions for the rest of us.
Donald Trump is a disaster of a human being. He truly believes that if he says the same things over and over, louder and louder, people will believe him. And it looks like he is right.
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Actually, the era you are describing is right now!!! In MY HO, all or mostly brought on by our current POTUS who has divided this nation to a point it was at when the Civil War was fought.
How exactly has Mr. Obama divided this nation? It's not him, it's Mitch McConnell. He is evil incarnate and a racist, and he is bitter because he didn't get his wish to limit Obama to just one turn. So he turned to a divisive strategy, and he won. He couldn't stand the idea of a black man in the White House. And the American people fell for it. And now we are all paying for it.
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I have many friends who live abroad. In fact, I have a friend from Oslo who recently travelled to the US, and we met up in NYC. She and her fiancé where most keen to ask me about Trump. They quietly admitted that that most of Europe is laughing at us. They are dumbfounded and, frankly, worried about if we could actually elect this buffoon to the most powerful position in the world.
I'm sure most Trump supporters don't give a 4X about what the world thinks of us, and therein lies the problem.
Angela Merkel would have Donald Trump for her lunch.
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Angela Merkel would have Donald Trump for her lunch.
If he, god forbid, wins, I hope she does have him for lunch. But she'd better be careful about choking getting poisoned by his vitriol. Not to mention choking on whatever that thing is he has on the top of his head.
In my opinion the only outcome worse than Trump winning would be for Cruz to win. He is much more intelligent, cunning, radical and evil than Trump, and would have more cooperation from the morons in Congress (especially GPO) than Trump would .
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This is not building up into a good year for republicans. Already most Republican Senators who are up for reelection have announced they are skipping the convention. They don't want to be associated with Drumpster or the pending disaster of the fall elections. The problem for the Repulican party seems to be turn out. If Hells Toupee is nominated the moderate republicans will probably sit out the election. If he is not nominated the 37 percent of the Republicans who currently support him will sit out the election. If either senerio happens it will be a bad year to be a Republican canadate in a contested state.
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Racism has become OK because people are "tired of being politically correct", whatever the hell that means. I guess some people want permission to be openly racist or sexist or every other kind of -ist.
Racism is also "if you dislike Obama, you must be a racist". I would be eager to vote for Colin Powell or Codoleeza Rice for president, because I would expect them to (for the most part) represent my values. I would have an equal dislike for Obama if he was white, and equal contempt for the Hildebeast if she were male. It's a cheap shot to say you cannot dislike a black person, or a woman, without being racist or sexist.
Blacks, almost without exception, "voted their race" in the last presidential election. There was, however, a significant percentage of white voters who voted for Obama because they felt he best represented their interests. So, which voting block was racist?
I fear Cruz because I don't want our leader to be someone who thinks that America should be a theocracy.
Race baiting is big business, and won't go away as long as there is money and power to be had by claiming racism and oppression. Just look at the great business Al Sharpton has built shaking down big corporations - make a donation to his charity and he won't denounce your firm as racist. That being said, I don't think Obama has hads any effect on race relations, and we have a very long way to go. I know if I am observed carrying a gun, the police reaction will probably be "Sir, I need to see your carry license", but if I were black, I could expect "on the ground mo-fo" at the point of of a gun. Ditto for being treated as a valued customer rather than a shoplifting suspect when I enter a department store.
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Yes indeedy I have heard from many of the far left who say, if you dont like Obama, it is because of his race.I dont like his white side either. I too would vote for Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell, but they are not running are they. Yes, I still think this country is so badly divided because Obama clearly favors blacks and Mitch McConnell is not in the office of the highest in the land. Of course, he has a lot of pull, but not more than the POTUS . Obama has pushed lots and lots of crap onto the American people and we are fed up with it. Cruz IS more radical than Trump, but certainly not more intelligent. I too have friends who live abroad and they keep very close watch on the Muslims there and they are not laughing at us at all. they are more afraid than many here, because the Muslim population is growing. Being PC is in regard to " not being able to say Merry Christmas or call our tree a Christmas Tree because immigrants are " offended". Not being able to pray in school because of only one woman. Donald Trump may be loud, he may at times be crass, he sometimes blows his top, gosh to me that sounds like the old "All American Man" He may have or his company may have screwed some people out of many $$$$$ and nobody likes that. But, the man has a heart of gold and no matter what any one has to say, I still feel he will be the best President this country has ever had.
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Yes, I still think this country is so badly divided because Obama clearly favors blacks and Mitch McConnell is not in the office of the highest in the land. Of course, he has a lot of pull, but not more than the POTUS . Obama has pushed lots and lots of crap onto the American people and we are fed up with it. Cruz IS more radical than Trump, but certainly not more intelligent. I too have friends who live abroad and they keep very close watch on the Muslims there and they are not laughing at us at all. they are more afraid than many here, because the Muslim population is growing. Being PC is in regard to " not being able to say Merry Christmas or call our tree a Christmas Tree because immigrants are " offended". Not being able to pray in school because of only one woman. Donald Trump may be loud, he may at times be crass, he sometimes blows his top, gosh to me that sounds like the old "All American Man" He may have or his company may have screwed some people out of many $$$$$ and nobody likes that. But, the man has a heart of gold and no matter what any one has to say, I still feel he will be the best President this country has ever had.
So, black people think Obama has not done enough for them, and white people think he "clearly favors blacks"? That's interesting.
Which immigrants have you ever met who were offended by the words "Christmas Tree"? And which one woman is keeping you from praying in school?
Trump is the old "All American Man"? Oh, that's very interesting!!! Do you mean to say that you like a more authoritarian personality? A strongman type of figure? A father figure of sorts to keep us safe from the monsters under the bed?
What have you seen in Trump that makes you believe he has a heart of gold despite having screwed people out of many $$$$$? I'm genuinely interested to read your response. I have met his daughter Ivanka, though, and she seemed to be OK, although she was trying to sell me shoes, so she had to be nice.
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The one Trump I have met and admired is Trumps sister Marion Trump Barry a federal appeals court judge. Now known as Marion Trump Barry she was Marion Barry until a well known DC mayor made using Trump advisable. She clearly got all the brains in the family. Donald's reputation as a buisnessman is belied by the simple fact if he had invested his money he inherited from his father In a stock indexed fun he would have more money today then he has made with it.
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they are more afraid than many here, because the Muslim population is growing
Places like France may very well face a democratically elected Muslim government in a couple of generations.
But, the man has a heart of gold
I find this hard to believe after seeing how eagerly he screws people in deals. Those in the rent controlled apartment he tried to clear; or those who got hoodwinked by "Trump University" would also have a hard time believing it.
But, I'll take him over the Hildebeast.
well known DC mayor made using Trump advisable
You mean the mayor who got easily re-elected despite his criminality because of racism ::)
if he had invested his money he inherited from his father In a stock indexed fun he would have more money today then he has made with it.
He claims he started his business with a $1M loan from his father. Was there a bigger inheritance?
30 years gain in the S&P 500 was 8.56x; 40 years gain was 20.22x - hardly enough to parlay a $1M loan into billions by index investing.
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I have many friends who live abroad. In fact, I have a friend from Oslo who recently travelled to the US, and we met up in NYC. She and her fiancé where most keen to ask me about Trump. They quietly admitted that that most of Europe is laughing at us. They are dumbfounded and, frankly, worried about if we could actually elect this buffoon to the most powerful position in the world.
I'm sure most Trump supporters don't give a 4X about what the world thinks of us, and therein lies the problem.
Angela Merkel would have Donald Trump for her lunch.
... I am just wondering if it could be that Mr. Donald Trump does not even aim for presidency
but instead he is "only doing a job" to find out about the political mood of the people ?
... This thought just came to me because if he really would be that serious about the presidency,
would he not rather use much more selected words in politically much more correct speeches
and thereby appear much more convincing that he truly is the right man for this position ??
... Just wondering ...
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I am just wondering if it could be that Mr. Donald Trump does not even aim for presidency
but instead he is "only doing a job" to find out about the political mood of the people ?
I think he already knows the political mood of a certain demographic. And is willing to ride it. I actually think he ran because he could. He has enough money to play games with the system and upset the apple cart (some of which could use some upsetting). I think it was an ego joke initially. Then his EGO got the best of him and his narcissism kept him going. He loves the attention and adulation. Even the negative attention. He is a total textbook narcissist-- who is rich, spoiled, and entitled, not to mention coarse and a bully. He loves that he has freaked out so many people. Manipulator-in-Chief.
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His father may have given him 1 million but when the father died he inherited a company worth 40 to 200 million.
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Personally, I have only run into one or two immigrants that were offended by the words " Christmas Tree" However, why is it that all the stores and vendors say "Happy Holidays" Did the American people make that one up. No, afraid not. I surely do wish I could recall the name of the one woman who raised such a fuss about praying in school. She is dead now, but she really went after the schools and of course, they backed down.
Trump is the guy who tells it to you straight and no, he is not a father figure. Don't be insinuating things. Authoritarian personality? Yes, by all means > I want a President who, when he opens his mouth to talk, every one quiets down, And you know he is speaking the truth. Too much to ask? I think not.
Since his entry into the world of politics, and before that he has done many things for many people. Stories I have read in the newspaper, our little old Riverside Press Enterprise. One time his limo broke down and a nice elderly couple stopped and offered to help, if only to give him some water ( they were in the desert area). He paid off their mortgage. Another one was when a child in America needed to be flown across country for medical work, Trump handed his plane over to them and the child was cured and he even paid for the fuel for the plane. Easy for him to do, he has pots and pots of money, but the point is, he did not have to do ANY of this.
I personally think Donald J. is a man among men and I wish him well.
What have you seen in Trump that makes you believe he has a heart of gold despite having screwed people out of many $$$$$? I'm genuinely interested to read your response. I have met his daughter Ivanka, though, and she seemed to be OK, although she was trying to sell me shoes, so she had to be nice.
[/quote]
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The election of Obama has removed the veil, and the racists have come out to play.
I agree.
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What amazes me is the total lack of respect Republicans show the office of the President. Just reading the words used about Obama, contrast with the outrage Republicans expressed when Doonesbury ran the inside Regans brain strips. Traditionally at least the office is respected. Now not so much. Even when Clinton was in office it was obsurd. The 5 leaders of the house have all been proven to be guilty of far worse, Hasert being the worst as it turns out he was a pedafile. All the Republcans can do is obstruct and complain. Historically the Republican congress reminds me of the congress in 1859. Can't do anything but complain. Hates Obama care but won't try to fix it. What amazing piece of legislation have they passed in the last two years. Now Donald Trump running a campaign of fear, exclusion, priveledge, and spite is leading in the race to be the next Republican Candidate. If the Republicans are serious shut up and Govern.
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What amazes me is the total lack of respect Republicans show the office of the President. Just reading the words used about Obama, contrast with the outrage Republicans expressed when Doonesbury ran the inside Regans brain strips. Traditionally at least the office is respected. Now not so much. Even when Clinton was in office it was obsurd. The 5 leaders of the house have all been proven to be guilty of far worse, Hasert being the worst as it turns out he was a pedafile. All the Republcans can do is obstruct and complain. Historically the Republican congress reminds me of the congress in 1859. Can't do anything but complain. Hates Obama care but won't try to fix it. What amazing piece of legislation have they passed in the last two years. Now Donald Trump running a campaign of fear, exclusion, priveledge, and spite is leading in the race to be the next Republican Candidate. If the Republicans are serious shut up and Govern.
I do have to balance how I thought about the last Bush with people's views of Obama. I felt his group was a bunch of cronies who wanted a war to fill their pockets, and I did not respect him. But I do not think our democratic leaders worked with Bush.
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When he presented his bogus case for war the democrats voted for his request. Given absolute assurance of WMDs many wish the didn't but support him they did.
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An for those of you who think Trump is a straight shooter who answers to no-one, its good to remember that his pool of hires for the campaign is from the same cesspool of lobbyists as the rest of them:
Top Trump aide lobbied for Pakistani spy front
https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-trump-aide-lobbied-for-1409744144007222.html
If he is elected who will he hire and how will they be any different than anyone else would hire?
quote:
For more than five years, Donald Trump’s new top campaign aide, Paul Manafort, lobbied for a Washington-based group that Justice Department prosecutors have charged operated as a front for Pakistan’s intelligence service, according to court and lobbying records reviewed by Yahoo News.
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Trump is the guy who tells it to you straight and no, he is not a father figure. Don't be insinuating things. Authoritarian personality? Yes, by all means > I want a President who, when he opens his mouth to talk, every one quiets down, And you know he is speaking the truth. Too much to ask? I think not.
You actually think Trump tells it like it is? Trump's run for president is a piece of "performance art"-- if I can grace this coarse performance with the word "art." The whole thing is a lie. From those who know him, they say he's not a misogyist or a racist or a xenophobe, but the whole thing is an act because he knows there's a demographic of people who are like that who he can arouse. He's totally messing with us. Is that honesty?
Here's a snippet from an interview I heard on NPR today with a NY Daily News columnist who knows Trump personally:
As a woman and as a New Yorker, I do not understand this whole racist-biggot-sexist thing with Donald. I’ve known him for many, many years, I’ve never known him to be a racist, a biggot, a sexist.”
Do you think Donald Trump is those things now – a racist, a biggot and a sexist?
“I think that he is – he knows how to win and he looked at the field and he said ‘These are the guys who are not being talked to. These are the disenfranchised blue collar workers who have this secret racism behind them, and I’m going to hit them.’ And now he’s become the monster that he created.”
How much did you and other New York reporters help create him?
“We did not create him. We put him on steroids. We didn’t create him though, he created himself. Nobody can create Donald.”
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2016/04/18/new-york-daily-news-linda-stasi
Here's what she said about Lying Ted Cruz:
“Ted Cruz, to me, is a self-loathing son of an immigrant because his father fought alongside Fidel Castro. His father came to this country illegally. And what does Ted Cruz hate more than anything? Illegal immigrants.”
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What Trump (and Sanders) have really done is show the MASSIVE divide between the generations and what we want from our country and the values we hold.
Trump has also shown what an absolute mockery our political system is and how easy it is to completely hack apart.
Both sides pretty much agree that something needs to change - we just can't agree what that change is.
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What Trump (and Sanders) have really done is show the MASSIVE divide between the generations and what we want from our country and the values we hold.
I am not sure I agree entirely with this. Trump supporters seem to be of all ages.
Sanders does attract a disproportionate amount of younger people, and this disturbs me because the same was true for Obama, yet these same younger people didn't bother turning out for the midterms in 2010. They turned out again in 2012, but yet again didn't bother to vote in the 2014 midterms, and this is how we got such a divided government. You can't support your presidential choice in the general yet abandon him in the midterms. I am afraid that if Sanders is elected, the same fate awaits him.
Which are the values that younger people hold that aren't shared by older people? How would you define the "massive" divide between the generations?
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Sanders problem is that he needs to win New York and the independent young voters who have flocked to him can't vote in the New York Primary since most are Registered Independent and New York is a closed primary only registered Democrats can vote today.
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Sanders problem is that he needs to win New York and the independent young voters who have flocked to him can't vote in the New York Primary since most are Registered Independent and New York is a closed primary only registered Democrats can vote today.
The whole Sander's has only young people bothers me.
I'll take Sanders over Clinton over anyone else... As a 41 year old I see numerous people my age group on Facebook who promote Sanders talking points. Not being around a lot of "young" people I see his supporters are more family oriented. They like his stance on things that will affect their children, such as GMOs and Fracking, as well as dealing with some of our big business and big political issues.
I just clicked through some of the photos on Google images and yes the people in the front are younger, but there is a mix of ages there. I guess my question is the "younger" statement real? Or is it just something that the media and the public grabs onto without fully vetting - similar to the statement like Trump supporters are racists - it might be true in some case but is also blatantly false (an offensive) in other cases.
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I just clicked through some of the photos on Google images and yes the people in the front are younger, but there is a mix of ages there. I guess my question is the "younger" statement real? Or is it just something that the media and the public grabs onto without fully vetting - similar to the statement like Trump supporters are racists - it might be true in some case but is also blatantly false (an offensive) in other cases.
I don't think anyone has claimed that Sanders has "only" younger voters, rather, that more younger voters are going for him than are going for Clinton. And it does seem to be a claim that has been vetted. It is simple to verify this through polling, but it is not easy to verify how many "racists" are supporting Trump. Young people will confess to being young and can prove their age, but if asked directly "Are you a racist", I imagine that most people won't admit to it.
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Sanders does attract a disproportionate amount of younger people, and this disturbs me because the same was true for Obama, yet these same younger people didn't bother turning out for the midterms in 2010. They turned out again in 2012, but yet again didn't bother to vote in the 2014 midterms, and this is how we got such a divided government. You can't support your presidential choice in the general yet abandon him in the midterms. I am afraid that if Sanders is elected, the same fate awaits him.
There's a big difference between Sanders and Obama. A lot of people who were moved to support Obama became very disenchanted (myself included) when it became clear that he was more of the same. And they stayed home (I didn't). I'm not happy about but they didn't just abandon the process without a cause. Sanders is actually mobilizing a movement. I wouldn't be surprised if it split off into a 3rd party as it represents a (pretty big) wing of the Dem party that isn't being addressed at all by the established Democratic party machine. I think the degree of mobilization is different.
I'm for Sanders and I'm 74. I've been disappointed by "New Democrats" for too long. They have ruined the party and have become just another flavor of corporate-elite-driven politics. They've moved the needle waaaaaay off from where true Dem values should be--much further left than the DINOs (Democrats in Name Only) who dominate the party. They're actually out of step with most of the American population who are more progressive than the politicians who pretend to represent We the People.
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There's a big difference between Sanders and Obama. A lot of people who were moved to support Obama became very disenchanted (myself included) when it became clear that he was more of the same.
This is an interesting comment. What do you see as the biggest differences between Sanders the candidate and Obama the candidate?
Do you think that Obama really became "more of the same", or do you think it was more of a case of being him being thwarted by McConnell and Boehner at every turn?
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Which are the values that younger people hold that aren't shared by older people?
Younger voters are more likely to see government spending as the solution, as they have not yet reached the point in life where they pay huge taxes; about $1000 a month just in taxes on their home (protection money so they are not evicted by the government), and are the "makers" who are funding the "takers". A 21 year old who thinks that free tuition, rent control, high minimum wage; etc. are the solution to society's problems changes his/her tune when he/she becomes a 40 year old being told to pay for it all.
Remember the classic:
- If you are not a liberal at age 20, you don't have a heart
- If you are not a conservative at age 40, you don't have a brain
- If you are not a curmudgeon at age 60 you haven't been paying attention
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This is an interesting comment. What do you see as the biggest differences between Sanders the candidate and Obama the candidate?
It's both the candidate and the times. And the level of desperation in the world. People are looking for something different.
Of course history will tell the tale. It's not likely that we'll see what kind of president Sanders would have been, I'm sorry to say. But as a candidate, he was unvarnished and unabashedly progressive. He's an outsider--the only Independent in Congress. The only Democratic Socialist. This is hindsight, but Obama was very slick. Turned out to be a corporate whore--like so many others--bought and paid for. They were both invigorating candidates and both had a very strong following. But Obama turned out to be a disappointment to many progressives. And that always makes voters feel disenfranchised and so they stay home.
Do you think that Obama really became "more of the same", or do you think it was more of a case of being him being thwarted by McConnell and Boehner at every turn?
Both. Obama wanted so hard to please them that he gave away the store. The GOP was only too happy to take it.
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It's both the candidate and the times. And the level of desperation in the world. People are looking for something different.
Can you elaborate? There are a lot of people around the world who are desperate for all kinds of reasons. I'm sure people look for "something different" if they are unhappy or feel disgruntled, but to get what they want, they need to decide exactly what "different" means and whether or not it is government or societal change that will bring about that change.
Of course history will tell the tale. It's not likely that we'll see what kind of president Sanders would have been, I'm sorry to say. But as a candidate, he was unvarnished and unabashedly progressive. He's an outsider--the only Independent in Congress. The only Democratic Socialist. This is hindsight, but Obama was very slick. Turned out to be a corporate whore--like so many others--bought and paid for. They were both invigorating candidates and both had a very strong following. But Obama turned out to be a disappointment to many progressives. And that always makes voters feel disenfranchised and so they stay home.
As a candidate, Sanders has brought and can still bring progressive issues to the fore. Yes, he does seem to be an outsider, but he's been in Congress for yonks, so I am not sure how much support a President Sanders would have in Congress. I don't know what kind of long term working relationships he has forged that would come to his aid if he wants a particularly contention piece of legislation to pass. Being an "outsider" is not always a good thing.
To say that Obama is a "corporate whore" is a sweepingly harsh statement, particularly for a President who was opposed by the opposition party from the evening he was inaugurated. Phrases like "corporate whore" are fun to sling around, but what exactly do you mean? Unfortunately, our tax laws are such that corporations can do pretty much as they please to turn a profit, and it is Congress that legislates, not the Executive Branch. Even a President Sanders would not be able to pass corporate tax reform; he'd have to get Congress to do that. Too many people are confused about what the President can do as opposed to what the Congress can do, especially when it comes to budgets and funding. A President can promise all sorts of fiscal candy, but it is Congress that ultimate decides how much candy (or how little) we get.
Many Obama detractors claim that he thinks he is a King and acts like it. You'd probably get more of what you want if that were true. People who feel that Obama was not progressive enough should have gone out to the polls during TWO midterms and voted for down ticket progressives. I don't care if some voters are in a hump because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted and so decided to pout and not vote. The only way to guard against further disappointment is to vote in every election, particularly the local ones. If you do not, I don't want to hear from you.
Both. Obama wanted so hard to please them that he gave away the store. The GOP was only too happy to take it.
Obama ran on the promise of working with the opposition. He promised to reach across the aisle and work with Congress in a bipartisan way. And that is what voters voted for. Twice. Whether or not he "gave away the store" is subject to debate. I don't think John Boehner would agree with that assessment. He was booted out by the Tea Party contingent BECAUSE the House GOPs were getting NOTHING they wanted, so which is it? The GOP will say that the ACA was shoved down its throat, and I didn't see a store go down with it.
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We are now in a battle between the makers and the takers, and the takers (by sheer force of number) will eventually win.
The simplified view is that Democrats want to transfer wealth from the makers to the takers, and the Republicans want to let the makers keep it. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the essence of the basic difference between the two and why people on the doll vote overwhelmingly "D".
The FSA (Free Stuff Army) has an endless supply of recruits.
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The only way to guard against further disappointment is to vote in every election, particularly the local ones. If you do not, I don't want to hear from you.
You're free not to listen to me in any case. But I have never missed an election in the last 53 years since I became eligible to vote. I am an activist. Not a sitter outer. I have strong progressive views and I become MORE progressive with every passing year (in contrast to what Simon Dog says) as I become more vulnerable and have more empathy/compassion for others who are vulnerable in our society (and the rest of the world).
I think good government can do a great deal for We the People. And should. But it hasn't been working for a while for ordinary people. Our government is now a plutocracy and not a democracy (or even a republic). The system is controlled by money that buys influence and shapes policy that effects everyone. It helps the very, very rich (who don't need help) by giving them all kinds of tax breaks that robs the coffers intended to keep the whole ship afloat. And it deprives those who need it most because there is no money and ill-conceived priorities shaped by the corrosive and corrupting influence of money that floods the elections and buys off our representatives and Presidents.
As a candidate, Sanders has brought and can still bring progressive issues to the fore. Yes, he does seem to be an outsider, but he's been in Congress for yonks, so I am not sure how much support a President Sanders would have in Congress. I don't know what kind of long term working relationships he has forged that would come to his aid if he wants a particularly contention piece of legislation to pass. Being an "outsider" is not always a good thing.
Sanders would have at least tried to clean up the money-in-politics fiasco. It would have been a start. It wouldn't have been easy. Sanders has been in government for "yonks" it is true. And for yonks he has been consistently on the same path-- one that I approve of and feel is needed. He hasn't been a flashy member of Congress, but he is known as the "amendment king." (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/24/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/) He has been slipping in progressive amendments into very non-progressive GOP bills for decades. He does know how to work with the opposition. (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/bernie-sanders-is-a-loud-stubborn-socialist-republicans-like-him-anyway/450597/)
But he has been lone voice in many ways. One that I wish we had listened to. He called the Iraq war for the disaster that it turned out to be in 2002 (https://youtu.be/9p35NmUnMsY). He called out the Panama trade deal as an open door to tax evasion that it turned out to be (http://www.salon.com/2016/04/05/sanders_ardently_opposed_the_trade_deal_that_helped_make_the_panama_papers_scandal_clinton_supported_it/). He has harped on the need to reform the banks and Wall Street and restore Glass-Steagall long before Wall St and the Big Banks tanked our economy. (http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/264675-clinton-and-summers-are-wrong-on-sanderss-glass-steagall-proposal
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing we now know for sure about the outcome of the coming presidential election is that we will get a winner who sucks--worse or worser.
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We are now in a battle between the makers and the takers, and the takers (by sheer force of number) will eventually win.
The simplified view is that Democrats want to transfer wealth from the makers to the takers, and the Republicans want to let the makers keep it. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the essence of the basic difference between the two and why people on the doll vote overwhelmingly "D".
The FSA (Free Stuff Army) has an endless supply of recruits.
My view on this is 100% different. I live in the educated part of Virginia (i.e. high income part), we (Northern Virginia) constantly vote in democrats as compared to the other parts of Virginia which is lower educated and lower income.
At the state level this plays out with "red" i.e. conservative states, receiving more federal money (aide) than other states.
http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-more-dependent-on-federal-government-2015-7
Republicans are less educated:
http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/
We see that playing out in Trump supporters, "The single best predictor of Trump support in the GOP primary is the absence of a college degree"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/
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kickingandscreaming, my apologies. I used "you" in the general sense; I did not mean "you" personally! Thank you for your sustained and continuing participation in the democratic process!!! I wish there were more voters like you! I would say to any voter who is disappointed by the eventual choice of nominee to go to the polls on Election Day and vote for whichever candidate for Congress fits their ideals. I have a concern that all of these new voters we keep hearing about haven't done their homework on the other elections in their district/state.
There is nothing in your post with which I disagree. But I am sure you'd agree that there seems to be varying definitions of "good government". I am just hoping for effective government.
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We are now in a battle between the makers and the takers, and the takers (by sheer force of number) will eventually win.
The simplified view is that Democrats want to transfer wealth from the makers to the takers, and the Republicans want to let the makers keep it. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the essence of the basic difference between the two and why people on the doll vote overwhelmingly "D".
The FSA (Free Stuff Army) has an endless supply of recruits.
The problem is that the makers are creating more takers.
If, say, Walmart (a "maker") paid a decent living wage to its employees, then those employees wouldn't have to apply for any kind of benefits (paid for by your taxes and mine) and so wouldn't become "takers". Walmart, in this way, is shifting their costs onto you and me.
If corporations ("makers) didn't outsource jobs in order to cut costs, then those jobs would be filled by Americans, thereby keeping them from having to claim unemployment benefits (again, paid for by you and me) and thus becoming "takers".
People on the dole don't overwhelming vote D. Look at the Old Confederate southern states. These states get more money from the Federal Government (again, from you and me) than they pay, but they are the reddest of Red states. So, you are incorrect in this regard.
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We are now in a battle between the makers and the takers, and the takers (by sheer force of number) will eventually win.
Not to mention that ALL of us on this forum are "takers" in the sense that we are still alive by the noblesse of Medicare. Medicare is often spoken of with disdain by republicans and libertarian as "entitlements," as if that's a bad thing. So isn't it just a bit hypocritical to point the finger at them, the takers? And to whine about the redistribution of wealth? If there's any redistribution of wealth going on in this country, it is flowing from the poor and the middle class upward to those who don't need it. If it continues, there will come a time when the people go out in the streets with pitchforks.
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I would like to point out that I have coll cited un employment for about 3 years and are currently receiving Social Security Disability by your reasoning that makes me a taker. But I paid my taxes for 42 years while working. To receive these takings one has had to work long enough to be eligible for them. Do I feel guilty NO I don't.After 42 years I figure I earned them. Remember the people who get these benefits must work a certain amount to be eligible. In addition the more you work the more you pay and more re money is given to you when you are eligible. Referring to them as making me a taker I find offensive.
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Remember the people who get these benefits must work a certain amount to be eligible. In addition the more you work the more you pay and more re money is given to you when you are eligible. Referring to them as making me a taker I find offensive.
I believe everyone has access to social security disability (good) but your benefits are much higher due to your work history. I seriously worry for people that go on disability young because it means they are locking in a poverty level wage for their entire life. With dialysis granting disability it's easy to look at it as a life and people might take that route when they could finish their education and work around dialysis well earning higher disability payments by the time they truly can not work. (Obviously not everyone can work on dialysis.)
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If there's any redistribution of wealth going on in this country, it is flowing from the poor and the middle class upward to those who don't need it.
I agree.
I also understand the extremely high standard of living we have here in the US and attribute my ability to be successful to the system we have. I personally do not want anyone to experience the poverty found around the world. I see huge benefits to using my taxes to prop up society. I appreciate things like not having to hire guards to protect my home from desperate people.
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We are now in a battle between the makers and the takers, and the takers (by sheer force of number) will eventually win.
The simplified view is that Democrats want to transfer wealth from the makers to the takers, and the Republicans want to let the makers keep it. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the essence of the basic difference between the two and why people on the doll vote overwhelmingly "D".
The FSA (Free Stuff Army) has an endless supply of recruits.
who are the real takers? The middle class pays most of the taxes while big corporations like Merck pay 0% and even worse NEGATIVE tax rates! see the article below
The biggest example during the second quarter is drugmaking giant Merck. The company had a negative effective tax rate during the second quarter of 7.5%, meaning it actually got a net tax credit. That's despite the fact that income before taxes at Merck soared 52% to $1.9 billion during the quarter."
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/08/13/20-big-profitable-us-companies-paid-no-taxes.html
so before calling folks like single moms "takers" for working two jobs and still having no choice but to use food stamps, maybe you should be calling out the greedy corporations for not paying their share of taxes ! and who did the government bailout in 2008? the families who lost their home for no fault of their own or the too big to fail ? If you are a middle class 33% of the earnings go to Uncle Sam. But what do we get for it? In places like Ireland you get full medical for free. dialysis Free! college is free ITs a kind just society! no one goes around labeling folks who are on assistance "takers"
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One of the things most often done wrong by Social Security is that for the young (I think it's under 22) the disability should be calculated on parents record.
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who are the real takers? The middle class pays most of the taxes while big corporations like Merck pay 0% and even worse NEGATIVE tax rates! see the article below
I'll spell it out for you: EBT.
the families who lost their home for no fault of their own or the too big to fail ?
People lost their homes because the housing market crashed and no longer had the motivation to pay the mortgage. A friend went bankrupt; rented for a year; then bought a new house with his "underwateredness" wiped out. Even the "too big to fail" banks honored mortgage terms - if you paid as agreed, no forclosure.
so before calling folks like single moms "takers"
If you take more in services/govt money than you pay you are a taker. If you pay more than you take, you are a maker. This is not a value judgement, just a mathematical reality.
As to Merck - I wonder what the net effect is after the income tax is paid by all their employees, and capital gains taxes paid by anyone who sells their stock at a profit.
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I don't care if some voters are in a hump because they didn't get 100% of what they wanted and so decided to pout and not vote. The only way to guard against further disappointment is to vote in every election, particularly the local ones. If you do not, I don't want to hear from you.
Thank you for saying it MooseMom!
Kristina.
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If you don't vote don't complain!
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who are the real takers? The middle class pays most of the taxes while big corporations like Merck pay 0% and even worse NEGATIVE tax rates! see the article below
I'll spell it out for you: EBT.
the families who lost their home for no fault of their own or the too big to fail ?
People lost their homes because the housing market crashed and no longer had the motivation to pay the mortgage. A friend went bankrupt; rented for a year; then bought a new house with his "underwateredness" wiped out. Even the "too big to fail" banks honored mortgage terms - if you paid as agreed, no forclosure.
so before calling folks like single moms "takers"
If you take more in services/govt money than you pay you are a taker. If you pay more than you take, you are a maker. This is not a value judgement, just a mathematical reality.
As to Merck - I wonder what the net effect is after the income tax is paid by all their employees, and capital gains taxes paid by anyone who sells their stock at a profit.
I had to look up what EBT is. Here are 2 examples of some of the math to compare : It costs tax payers 58 Billion dollars a year to treat kidney disease (dialysis, TX, meds does not include disability) , it costs tax payers 80 Billion dollars a year to fund EBT benefits.. The costs of both dialysis and EBT are needed and can be greatly reduced by reducing wasteful spending! EBT programs can be reduced considerably if the USDA would stop bowing down to corrupt convenient store lobbiyiests. Medicare spending on kidney disease would be greatly reduced if if wasteful spending is more scrutinized and healthcare costs is under control .
"the housing market crashed and people lost motivation to pay their mortgage" ARE YOUR KIDDING ME! Famililes had to live in their cars because they lost "motivations!". And who brought on the market crash of 2008. Is it not the greedy bankers and hedge fund managers from Wall Street!!
"If you take more than you make then you are a taker" SO does that mean you are a taker? I'm pretty sure if you look at the math you are taking more as a dialysis patient than you are making or have ever made in your life.
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"If you take more than you make then you are a taker" SO does that mean you are a taker? I'm pretty sure if you look at the math you are taking more as a dialysis patient than you are making or have ever made in your life.
First off, you know nothing about my earning or investment history, so the later part of your statement is without foundation but, if I stay on dialysis for about 25 years of so, your statement will be become correct.
Yes, I am a "taker", though this year it will be about break-even (tax payments relative to dialysis cost) in my household (unusual year, some options from my last job coming due).
But, one can argue that since I paid medicare tax for 35 years of my working career, that I am simply collecting on an insurance policy I purchased - just like car insurance, house insurance, etc. - except that the collection and payment was managed by the government.
Social security recipients can be thought of as "takers" in the short term but, in reality, they are collecting on a benefit they paid for.
Unlike disability; medicare; and social security, EBT recipients are, in general, not collecting on anything they paid for.
Your $80B figure may be correct, but SNAP EBT is just one thing the free stuff army (FSA) is collecting. You have to add in WIC, Section 8 housing vouchers, subsidized public housing, Obamacare subsidies, unpaid ER treatment to the uninsured, and the benefits given to "undocumented" aliens.
"the housing market crashed and people lost motivation to pay their mortgage" ARE YOUR KIDDING ME! Famililes had to live in their cars because they lost "motivations!". And who brought on the market crash of 2008. Is it not the greedy bankers and hedge fund managers from Wall Street!!
I'm talking economic reality. The people who lost their houses had that happen because they agreed to pay a certain amount of money back, at a specific interest rate and schedule, and failed to do so. One can argue the banks took advantage of people who borrowed more than they could afford thinking that the rising house prices would make it a good deal, however, in the end, nobody forced any of those borrowers to sign on the dotted line. Bailing out people who borrowed money to buy a losing investment amounts to "sociailizing losses while privatizing gains".
A very simple question: Would the people who lost their houses still have them if they paid their loan as agreed?
So, as a dialysis patient, I may be a "taker", but I still have the values of a "maker".
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So, as a dialysis patient, I may be a "taker", but I still have the values of a "maker".
And you have no way of knowing how many of these "takers" that you condemn as parasites also have the values, mentality and spirit of "makers" but might not have the where with all and good luck that you have had. Not everyone in this society (or anywhere for that matter) has access to the same parentage, opportunities and talents and sheer luck of the draw. No need to look upon such people with such disdain and heartlessness. Using the same metaphor that conservatives are so fond of in describing their whacked out economic policies--"a rising tide lifts all boats," if we were more our brothers' keepers we would have a happier, securer populace and lots less crime and misery that wastes human resources and spills out on all of us.
I think we should have a guaranteed basic, non-means-tested income for everyone. I believe Finland is trying that out.
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The Trump campaign is hurting our children.
There’s a new study from SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, titled The Trump Effect: The Impact of the Presidential Campaign on Our Nation’s Schools. According to the report, “the campaign is having a profoundly negative effect on children and classrooms.
It’s producing an alarming level of fear and anxiety among children of color and inflaming racial and ethnic tensions in the classroom. Many students worry about being deported.
Other students have been emboldened by the divisive, often juvenile rhetoric in the campaign. Teachers have noted an increase in bullying, harassment and intimidation of students whose races, religions or nationalities have been the verbal targets of candidates on the campaign trail.”
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Clearly as the Trump campaign starts the ploy that this is just a role he is playing to win the nomination and afterwards he will turn on his presidential persona and then I guess he will then try to turn on his statesman persona. If he wants to run try turning on his honest persona. But I think if you check out his past business practices that persona may be too much of a stretch.
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I am a Republican (maker) in a Democrat's (taker) body. I hate that. So, I volunteer and have a part-time job and make things for people and give to the poor to make up for my taking that I hate.
When Trump finds out how much money dialysis patients' TAKE AWAY from Medicare which was meant for those over 65.... he will put a stop to it. And He will be correct in doing so. Enjoy dialysis while you can because it is coming to an end. (my prediction)
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I am a Republican (maker) in a Democrat's (taker) body.
That is an totally false meme. And a very unfair one. In fact it is the red states that are the takers (if there such a thing) and the blue states that "make" what the red folks so willingly take. So you have it backwards.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/
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to make up for my taking that I hate.
If you paid medicare withholding taxes for your working life before going on dialysis, you have effectively paid an insurance premium you are collecting on. This is similar to collecting fire insurance after lightening burns down your house, and is a different kind of "takerism".
Something is seriously wrong when the welfare rate (according to the chard in the article in the earlier post) ranges between 5% and 20%.
When Trump finds out how much money dialysis patients' TAKE AWAY from Medicare which was meant for those over 65.
There are limits to what a president can do (as evidenced by the fact that you still buy evil black rifles, despite Obama's wishes), and entrenched entitlements are among the hardest of things to roll back.
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ho's benefit is it for dialysis patients under 65 go onto medicare? was it meant to help us or the insurance companies. How is it that if I am paying hefty premiums for private insurance for the past 30 years + and then be forced to switch to medicare after 3 years so that tax payers can foot the bill? My husband works so we are still considered "takers" as you wish to call it. Not only that, after going onto medicare I still had to pay for private insurance with premiums higher than my mortgage not to mention co-pays and co-insurances deductables....
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Let's take this maker and taker BS to its logical conclusion. I don't have kids why do I have to pay for your children schooling you wanted kids pay for them yourself. I am not on dialysis pay for it yourself. I live in the country not a city why should I pay for your services. I have a well why should I pay for your clean water. I am not sick why should I help pay for your medical bills. You went for a wilderness walk got lost why should I pay to help find you. The list is endless.
We formed a country to provide the comforts of Civilization for ourselves. Roads, schooling, protection, help, all are included in the cost of a modern Civilization. We live in a great country and as a country we have built a great place. Not based on every one for themselves but on a community that helps and supports itself. This greedy I got mine mentality is one of the dangers this country faces. If you want that type of country move to a place where you get to live that kind of life. I am sure that you will love fighting every day to stay alive and protect what you have made. However if history is any judge you will begin to build what you left a civilization.
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I do believe that there are takers in our country. In my book they are the greedy corporations that pay zero taxes, write laws and make rulesfor their benefits, gauge the public, take risks with our economy and have tax payers foot the bill for their gambling mistakes, have us at their mercy and control every aspect of our lives. They take our energies, control our minds, children's minds and have us thanking them for it. I got to stop my rant here. Sorry if you read this far, just venting.
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Just got off the web to find out why dialysis is so different with regards to Medicare. Some time in the early 60's Life magazine wrote a article about the real death committees that met in most major cities that voted on who got dialysis and who died. This article created quite a stir and the VA responded by building 30 dialysis units and the national health service built 12 demonstration units however there still needed to be a solution to meet the number of patients. In 1971 in a congressional committee a patient was given a short dialysis treatment and from this session came a consensus in congress to provide a permenent fix to the issue. As the 1972 Medicare update was in progress it was decided to attach this fix to Medicare, the 30 mont limit was added because the insurance industry was no happy about paying for dialysis for ever. As usual for the times the American public saw people dieing because of a lack of facilities and funding they demanded some solution. The patients would mostly have died so the politician responded to public pressure to fix the problem.
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Just on news trump University case will go to trial. Trump under oath first question what are you worth. This time lies put him in jail.
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Just got off the web to find out why dialysis is so different with regards to Medicare. Some time in the early 60's Life magazine wrote a article about the real death committees that met in most major cities that voted on who got dialysis and who died. This article created quite a stir and the VA responded by building 30 dialysis units and the national health service built 12 demonstration units however there still needed to be a solution to meet the number of patients. In 1971 in a congressional committee a patient was given a short dialysis treatment and from this session came a consensus in congress to provide a permenent fix to the issue. As the 1972 Medicare update was in progress it was decided to attach this fix to Medicare, the 30 mont limit was added because the insurance industry was no happy about paying for dialysis for ever. As usual for the times the American public saw people dieing because of a lack of facilities and funding they demanded some solution. The patients would mostly have died so the politician responded to public pressure to fix the problem.
I'm very thankful I am living in this time period. I'm sure we will look backwards in the future, but boy I'm happy that I have access to the current medical care as compared to what was available I the past!
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Trump is so arrogant that he probably doesn't even understand that Trump-U was in the business of screwing its students, which is why the case has not settled.
What a choice - him or the Hildebeast.
I'm very thankful I am living in this time period. I'm sure we will look backwards in the future, but boy I'm happy that I have access to the current medical care as compared to what was available I the past!
When people tell me they would have liked to live in an earlier era, I respond with one word: dentistry.
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When I read your comment about dentistry which I loved, it made me think of my favorite quote from a Star Trek movie. Dr McCoy to a elderly patient "Dialysis, what is this the dark ages "
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How does Mr. Trump as president force China , as he says, to take care of North Korea? Our debt to them is 1.7 trillion. So what kind of leverage can he have. Will he threaten them with harsh words and nasty nick names? Or will we just keep printing paper money backed by thin air to pay our debts.
Below is a breakdown of our debt as 2015
http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2015/05/spring-2015-to-whom-does-us-government.html#.VyCv8NT3arU
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I'm very thankful I am living in this time period. I'm sure we will look backwards in the future, but boy I'm happy that I have access to the current medical care as compared to what was available I the past!
When people tell me they would have liked to live in an earlier era, I respond with one word: dentistry.
How very true !!!
... Lets just hope it continues like that ... :grouphug;
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I'm very thankful I am living in this time period. I'm sure we will look backwards in the future, but boy I'm happy that I have access to the current medical care as compared to what was available I the past!
When people tell me they would have liked to live in an earlier era, I respond with one word: dentistry.
How very true !!!
... Lets just hope it continues like that ... :grouphug;
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I agree that here is so much to be thankful for but that'is because of the hard work and sacrifices of those who came before us. I sometimes feel like we have become an entitlement society. I think this Native American proverb said it best
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it
from our Children."
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I sometimes feel like we have become an entitlement society.
I hope the republick is not doomed.
DeToqueville said something like "A democracy can only exist until the public discovers it can vote itself largess from the public treasury".
With the FSA (Free Stuff Army), I fear we are there, with people voting on politicians based on what transfer payments they will get. We already have 20% of people wok welfare in many parts of the country (probably more in the cities) and, unfortunately, these people are allowed to vote.
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I happen to know the average welfare "taker" in New York State does not live in a urban area but is living in rural areas of upstate New York. The reality of welfare in New York is a white female with children who does not receive child support from a dead beat dad.
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I don't know about the demographics in NY, but see some interesting statistics at http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
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I don't know about the demographics in NY, but see some interesting statistics at http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Interesting how the lump in "unemployment insurance" as welfare. I've always viewed that as insurance and know that the cost of that insurance is directly affected by the number of claims a company has. I sure hope the wackos don't go after that form of "welfare."
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Trump is now the GOP nominee! :clap; :2thumbsup;
The "experts" keep saying he has NO chance but they also said he has no chance to win the nomination! Hopefully he keeps proving them wrong! :thumbup; :beer1;
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Too many people in the FSA for Trump to stand a change.
Time to stock up on guns and ammo if you're into that sort of thing. Once Hitlery wins, the shelves are going to be wiped clean in a buying frenzy reminiscent of a run on a bank.
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It's a really dark day in this "great" nation when the best that one team can come up with is an ignorant but rich fascist thug hate-monger well-connected to organized crime, and the other side picks a rich corporate neocon war hawk who is really a member of the first team.
With each election the choice between the "better of two evils" gets eviler. I'm devastated that there are enough stupid misguided, hateful people to put Trump on the ballot. I'm temporarily heartened that Ted Ooze will slither back into his hole for awhile, although I'm sure he's emboldened to run again in 2020. I am assuming that Trump will be elected because the media is lavishing him with coverage which encourages the herd mentality of folks to support him. I will hold open my right to write in Bernie when the time comes--as a protest against the whole corrupt system.
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K&S - I don't think you will have to worry about Trump past November - the math works against him.
If you assume that every member of the FSA (Free Stuff Army), all hispanics, and most blacks will vote for Hitlery, the Hildebeast only needs a small percentage of the non-welfare, non-hispanic, non-black vote to win by a landslide.
On the off chance Trump wins, I hope he is as good at screwing our so-called trading "partners" as he was those people who made the mistake of doing business with him.
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K&S - I don't think you will have to worry about Trump past November - the math works against him.
I'm not even sure I trust "math" anymore, given what a bizarre election season this has been. I'm no longer assuming anything "normal" will proceed normally. I'm not going to get into the "free stuff" obsession of yours (and the bigotry it reflects). You should know already where i stand on that from earlier posts.
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I take strong exception to the conclusion that my opposition to the free stuff army is bigotry, as it is not in any way based on color, religion, sexual identity or sexual preference. I am opposed to Obamaphones for persons of all colors, sexes and religions.
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I take strong exception to the conclusion that my opposition to the free stuff army is bigotry, as it is not in any way based on color, religion, sexual identity or sexual preference. I am opposed to Obamaphones for persons of all colors, sexes and religions.
But Simon ... that is the standard accusation. If you don't like Obama or his policies, you are racist, If you want to secure the border ... you are anti Hispanic, if you want able bodied people to earn their keep .. you are a bigot... if you want to show an ID for voting you are racist....... drug test for benefits ....OMIGOD!!!!! :sarcasm; :sarcasm;
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member of the FSA (Free Stuff Army), all hispanics, and most blacks
SD- it sure looks like you're singling out people of different races, colors and ethnicities and calling them "free stuff" wanters.
I said nothing about Obama. And I have no idea what an "Obamaphone" is. For the record, I think Obama has been a decent president--especially when you consider what we're now in store for. He has just been disappointingly unprogressive in my book--especially considering how he campaigned.
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I think there was a misunderstanding about my use of the term hispanics and blacks.
I was identifying three independent classes of people who will not vote for Trump:
1. Members of the Free Stuff Army, who will not vote for him because they want free stuff
2. Hispanics, because they are offended at both his stance on illegal immigration and the things he has said about illegal immigrants
3. Blacks, because they traditionally vote overwhelmingly democratic
I did not mean to imply that members of the FSA are primarily blacks and hispanics.
When you add in a fourth class - liberal Democrats who are not in any of the above groups - you are pretty much assured a Hillary victory.
The Obama administration has a program of issuing free cell phones, with calling plans, to persons on public assistance. These are called Obamaphones. A relative who works with an economically diverse clientele can often tell who is on welfare because they have two phones - their free Obamaphone (a basic cell phone, not an iPhone), and their iPhone. See www.obamaphone.com for details. Google can be your friend when you see a term you are not familiar with :)
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SD- I stand clarified. Thank you. I still don't think that anything is predictable--math or no math-- in this election cycle. There are too many wild cards (I use this metaphor since everyone seems to be playing one "card" or another these days ;)).
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President Obama didn't start the program; it has been in effect for decades.
http://www.obamaphone.com/started-obama-phone-program
Taxpayers do not subsidize this program.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/
It would be wonderful if the fraudulent use of any and all government programs could be prevented. But I personally would be willing to put up with it rather than dismantle it entirely because the fact remains that people are helped. I don't care if people get "free stuff". I'm grateful that I don't need it.
Is dialysis "free stuff"?
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"Empathy is the soul of democracy." Jeremy Rifkin
Some people on this thread should read and take to heart Rifkin's statement. It is not only the soul of democracy. It is a cornerstone of civilized life.
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“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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The last place I would look for a quote about how to treat people is from a German.
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The last place I would look for a quote about how to treat people is from a German.
But is he wrong? And Germany's history is just the place for such a lesson.
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The last place I would look for a quote about how to treat people is from a German.
I do not discriminate that way.
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But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it.
Actually, an agency of the government collects a mandatory fee from the telecoms (who pass it along in their rates) then parcels it out. That qualifies as a "Tax" since it is money taken from the corporations by government mandate.
If you think YOU are not paying for Obamaphones, call you cell company and ask them to take the USF (Universal Service Fee) off your bill.
SafeLink is run by a subsidiary of América Móvil, the world’s fourth largest wireless company in terms of subscribers, but it is not paid for directly by the company. Nor is it paid for with "tax payer money," as the e-mail claims. Rather, it is funded through the Universal Service Fund, which is administered by the Universal Service Administrative Company, an independent, not-for-profit corporation set up by the Federal Communications Commission. The USF is sustained by contributions from telecommunications companies such as "long distance companies, local telephone companies, wireless telephone companies, paging companies, and payphone providers." The companies often charge customers to fund their contributions in the form of a universal service fee you might see on your monthly phone bill. The fund is then parceled out to companies, such as América Móvil, that create programs, such as SafeLink, to provide telecommunications service to rural areas and low-income hous
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Is dialysis "free stuff"?
That is an interesting question, and the answer is not clear. I paid a medicare premium for decades of working, and am now collecting on that insurance. If your house burns down, and the insurance company pays to rebuild it, is that free stuff, or is it something you paid for via your premiums? Of course, the Medicare example is a bit more complex because its generally run at a loss, even with the premiums, so it probably is "free stuff" - unless do never get ESRD and die early.
Similarly, I consider EBT, WIC, Obamaphones, etc. to be "free stuff" but consider unemployment payment to be claims paid on insurance funded by payroll taxes levied on the employer.
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Years ago there was a decision by congress that access to telephones was a need for the poor and the rural areas. It was decided that minimum service would allow acces to police, ambulance, and fire service. In addition there are other public uses of available telephone service, this has been going on ffor almost century. Why free cell phone? The cost of the dedicated land line that was provided for most of the time is actually more expensive to provision and maintain. That's why in most developing countries cell phones exist while land lines do not. Obama has no more to do with this then Regan does. This tax was created by the 1934 telecommunication act, Roosevelt was president. Besides low or no cost it also supports rural telephone companies, Internet access to schools and libraries, and rural medical providers. So not obamaphones but rooseveltphpnes.
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Gosh I'm loving these socialist ideas
:clap;
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The USF (Universal Service Fee) was originally intended to make telephone service available in areas where it would be economically unfeasible to run lines. It was not originally created as a mechanism to give telephone service to welfare recipients free of charge.
I do not know under which president the transition of USF from "universal service availabiltiy" to "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" went into effect.
Why free cell phone? The cost of the dedicated land line that was provided for most of the time is actually more expensive to provision and maintain.
That explains "why cell", but not "why free". Also, free cell phones are very common urban areas.
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A vast majority of the money raised by rhe USF tax goes to rural telephone companies. Why free because the service is so cheap. The phones are generally recycled and does not include data, my cell service includes unlimited calling and texting because I pay for late data. It's cheaper to give a cell phone then to,provide a reduced cost land line. This program has been in place for 81 years, it's not a Obama thing it's been national policy for a long time.
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Obamaphones have not reduced the level of hard wired service available in rural/expensive to serve areas.
The USF was to avoid problems like a rural person paying 10x the normal cost of a pots line because they were far away and it did not make free-market sense to run wires to their one stoplight town to serve a small number of people. The post office does the same thing when it provides service to rural villages in the middle of nowhere Montana, or even worse, rural Alaska.
The question remains: Why should some ratepayers fund the provision of free cell phones to others?
We had an interesting situation in Boston. Amazon decided not to run its fleet in one part of town because it was economically not viable (customers in that section of town would be visited by UPS instead). Amazon reversed its position due to political pressure, since the excluded area was, relatively speaking, economically depressed (which is why it was not profitable to send its trucks there). Consider this a private sector equivalent of universal service.
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First off there are now areas that the major phone companies are refusing to rewire do to the cost there is a large fight in New Jersey that wire rebuild costs are too great to replace infrastructure destroyed by Sandy. They are building mini cell towers instead to provide phone service. Low cost or no cost land lines have.been provided for decades the switch to cell phones was done to lower costs. Plus most of the UFS money goes to rural phone companies. If you want to argue against this program fine but to blame Obama is just not right. Again it's a matter of how much of civilization you want to live in. If you live in the southeast why am I paying part of your electric bill, southwest why am I paying for your water, northwest electric paid for. Electricity for the southwest. Most of the people in the US get some help. I am retired why go I have to pay for roads I don't use, schools I don't have children to attend. These are services that help establish a level of civilization. We all benefit from infastucture, the cell phones eliminate the need for fire rescue, and police call boxes on every block.
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All true, but you avoided the issue - why should people on public assistance be given free phones of any kind?
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why should people on public assistance be given free phones of any kind?
Shouldn't they also have the right to communicate? Or is that only for rich people?
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I just googled a bit and found this
... It is paid for out of the federal Universal Service Fund (USF) through a fee assessed against telecommunications service providers, who may or may not pass those costs along to their customers:
And this
The Lifeline program only covers monthly discounts on landline or wireless telephone service for eligible consumers. It does not pay cellular companies to provide free cell phones to consumers, although some cellular service providers choose to offer that benefit to their Lifeline customers.
And this
Lifeline discounts are not available only to "welfare recipients" — these programs are implemented at both the state and federal levels, so qualification criteria can vary from state to state, but in general participants must have an income that is at or below 135% of the federal Poverty Guidelines, or take part in at least one of the following federal assistance programs: .... A lot
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Instead of nit picking on struggling fellow citizens why not direct your real frustration with the outrageous government spending and billions of dollars of lost revenues given to the corporate elite. I do agree there are those who are playing the poor card and taking advantage of the system, but that should not reflect on effective programs helping those who are truly in need. Below is a list of ways our government is wasting billions of dollars of tax payer money of hardworking folks:
______________________________________________________
https://fee.org/articles/most-outrageous-government-waste/
Mr. Schatz is president of Citizens Against Government Waste.
Since my job is to be a watchdog on government waste, I’m often asked about the most outrageous cases.
That’s a tough call because government bureaucrats never take care of your money as carefully as you would take care of it yourself. More important, bureaucrats spend money on what government wants, not what you want—which is the whole point of taxing away your money.
Without authorization, for instance, the feds spent $19.6 million annually on the International Fund for Ireland. Sounds like a noble cause, but the money went for projects like pony-trekking centers and golf videos.
Congressional budget-cutters spared the $440,000 spent annually to have attendants push buttons on the fully automated Capitol Hill elevators used by Representatives and Senators.
Last year, the National Endowment for the Humanities spent $4.2 million to conduct a nebulous “National Conversation on Pluralism and Identity.” Obviously, talk radio wasn’t considered good enough.
The Pentagon and Central Intelligence Agency channeled some $11 million to psychics who might provide special insights about various foreign threats. This was the disappointing “Stargate” program.
The Department of Education spent $34 million supposedly helping Americans become better shoppers and homemakers. Wasn’t it about time?
The federal government proposed spending $14 million for a new Army Museum, although there already were 47 Army Museums around the country. We helped stop that idea.
Dubious government spending schemes abound since bureaucrats play with other people’s money. For example, the National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) spent $70,029 to see if the degu, a diurnal South American rodent, can help us better understand jet lag . . . they spent $77,826 to study “Coping with Change in Czechoslovakia” . . . $100,271 to see if volunteering is good for older people . . . $124,910 to reduce “School Phobia” in children . . . $161,913 to study “Israeli reactions to SCUD Attacks during the Gulf War” . . . and $187,042 to study the quality of life in Hawaii.
Over the years, political wrangling twists the most noble-sounding government programs beyond recognition. For example, the Social Security Administration’s $25 billion a year Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program. Almost 250,000 children qualify for SSI checks because they can’t participate in “age appropriate activities.” Worse, thousands of prisoners get SSI checks relating to their alleged disabilities—costing taxpayers about $20 million a year.
That’s not all. In Denver, the government reportedly sent $160,000 to recipients at their “official address”—a tavern. A San Francisco addict used his SSI check to buy drugs, which he subsequently sold on the street for a profit. A Van Nuys, California, alcoholic received a $26,000 SSI check, then spent the money on a van and two cars which he subsequently wrecked while driving drunk. Los Angeles SSI recipients reportedly faked mental illness and had a doctor concoct false medical records, so they could pocket $45,000 worth of checks. An estimated 79,000 alcoholics and drug addicts are believed to spend SSI checks—some $360 million annually—on their habits.
Again and again, programs aimed at the poor are captured by well-heeled interest groups. For example, the Commerce Department’s U.S. Travel and Tourism Administration (USTTA) gave away $440,000 in so-called “disaster relief” to Western ski resort operators when there wasn’t much snow.
The Economic Development Administration spent “anti-poverty” funds to help build a $1.2 million football stadium in spiffy Spartanburg, South Carolina. During the summer, it will serve as a practice facility for the National Football League Carolina Panthers, and the rest of the year it will be used by Wofford College, which has a $50 million endowment.
Look at one of the most enduring legacies of Lyndon Johnson’s “War on Poverty”: the Appalachian Regional Commission. It was billed as help for an impoverished region. During the past three decades, this bureaucracy you’ve probably never heard of has spent $6.2 billion, yet the region remains impoverished.
Where did the money go? Two-thirds was spent building 26 highways connecting well-to-do urban centers. The money went to construction workers whose wages are definitely above-average. Despite revolutionary talk in Washington, the Appalachian Regional Commission goes on and on.
Or take the plight of the family farmer. I know you’ve been regaled about wasteful spending on agricultural subsidies, so I’ll just cite a single intriguing example: 1.6 million farm subsidy checks for $1.3 billion, mailed to urban zip codes during the past decade. New York City “farmers” pocketed $7 million during the past decade, Washington, D.C., “farmers” $10 million, Los Angeles “farmers” $10.7 million, Minneapolis “farmers” $48 million, Miami “farmers” $54.5 million, and Phoenix “farmers” $71.5 million. Among those on the take, to the tune of $1.3 million: 47 “farmers” in Beverly Hills, California—one of America’s wealthiest cities.
A lot of government spending is justified as necessary for national security. For instance, maritime subsidies supposedly help maintain a fleet for an emergency. Laws require government agencies to use U.S.-flag vessels which are U.S.-built, U.S.-owned, and U.S.-crewed, costing two to four times the world market price of comparable vessels available elsewhere. When the U.S. Department of Agriculture and Agency for International Development give away surplus grain, they must use U.S.-flag vessels for at least 75 percent of shipments, adding $233 million to the taxpayer burden. The U.S.-flag requirement adds $1.75 billion to the defense budget. Subsidy per maritime job: over $100,000.
The defense budget is larded with waste not because it’s run by bad guys but because it’s big, and bureaucrats are, as always, spending other people’s money. The Pentagon has an “operational support airlift” consisting of some 500 airplanes and 100 helicopters for flying military brass and civilian bureaucrats on 1,800 trips a month—costing taxpayers $380 million a year. Many of the destinations are served by commercial airlines.
Last year, the Pentagon announced it would spend $5.1 million to build a new 18-hole golf course at Andrews Air Force Base in suburban Maryland, which already has two. Golf Digest reported there are 19 military golf courses around Washington, D.C. Why a new golf course? One Pentagon official was quoted as saying “a lot of golf gets played out there. On Saturday mornings, people are standing on top of each other.”
Can It Continue?
How can such outrageous waste go on year after year? Simple: bureaucrats aren’t doling out their money, so they have little incentive to be responsible. Politically connected special interests, who are usually better off than the average taxpayer, seem to get most of the loot.
The most powerful special interest is government itself. In fiscal year 1993, the federal government owned 569,556 vehicles—one for every six full-time employees. Included were 117 limousines. The government’s fleet expanded more than 130,000 vehicles since the Grace Commission called for it to be cut in half more than a decade ago.
Government officials multiply the number of regulations regardless of the waste they cause. For example, the Defense Department has 1,357 pages of regulations about how officials travel. Complying with these regulations adds about 30 percent to travel costs. If the Pentagon adopted the best practices of private companies, it could save an estimated $650 million to $840 million every year. Of course, government regulations cause enormous waste in the private sector—tax compliance costs alone run into the billions—but that’s a vast subject unto itself.
The federal government wastes money through grants to the most politically powerful environmental lobbyists. For example, between 1990 and 1994, the Natural Resources Defense Council got $246,622; Defenders of Wildlife, $1,285,658; Environmental Defense Fund, $1,493,976; and the World Wildlife Fund, $26,584,335. All together, environmental lobbyists collected $156,644,352 during this period. Every one pushes the federal government to enact more regulations.
Whenever you hear a politician propose that government take over some private business, like New York’s troubled Long Island Lighting Company, there should be red flags all over the place, because government operation means high costs. At the U.S. Government Printing Office, for instance, costs are estimated to be 50 percent higher than in the private printing industry. If the U.S. air traffic control system were transferred to private companies and the services paid by user fees, taxpayer savings would probably be around $18 billion over the next five years.
With a $1.5 trillion annual budget, the feds take so much of your money that they can’t possibly keep track of it even if they wanted to. For example, a contractor sold $27 electronic relays to the government’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve for between $484 and $521 apiece. The Department of Energy paid some of its employees $5,000 a year to lose weight—the outlays totaled $10 million a year. The owner of a California apartment building got Department of Housing and Urban Development subsidies, then illicitly diverted $610,000 into his own accounts. One “farmer” collected $1.6 million in government insurance payments for non-existent crops. Forty-three people in New York City pocketed over $40 million in phony food stamp claims. Five Floridians stole $20 million from Medicare—part of the estimated $17 billion of annual Medicare fraud.
What to do about such waste? The government is crawling with auditors, and there have been a zillion investigations, yet waste goes on. Citizens Against Government Waste will continue to be a watchdog. The only long-term solution, though, is to somehow cut big government down to size. Only when it’s much smaller will you be able to keep more of your hard-earned money, which, after all, is yours.
Thomas A. Schatz
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Thru out this country there are many things paid for by tax dollars, 1934 congress decided that universal phone coverage was a national goal,they created the USF and mandated the FCC to administer it. The objection I have is the term obamaphone since he had absolutely nothing to do with this service. There are many services in this country that receive tax dollars, mass transit, water, electric, heating oil, roads, some corporations, all have perceived national benefit. With cell or telephones cities no longer need to maintain call boxes for police or fire alarms for fire departments, or a method to dispatch ambulances. Rural communities have phone service, libraries provide Internet access. Write your congressman if you are unhappy. But Obama had nothing to do with this its been national policy for 81 years.
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I did not coin the term Obamaphone, but just used a term already in common use and accepted as part of the vocanbulary.
None of those other subsidies you speak of are used to provide a service for free to EBT recipients that others, not receiving public assistance, have to pay for.
I believe anyone should be allowed to communicate. I do not believe it is my obligation to buy them cell phones so they can do so.
The solution is to allow welfare recipients to work without totally cutting off their welfare, as there is currently little incentive for EBT recipients to take a McJob that will cost as much in loss benefits as they see in the paycheck. Stop giving them cell phones, and let them raise their standard of living by working - even if the work is not enough to totally eliminate the need for welfare payments.
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I did not coin the term Obamaphone, but just used a term already in common use and accepted as part of the vocanbulary.
I am very politically active and I pay attention to what is being said in common parlance. I have never run into anyone so giddy about using terms like "obamaphone" It is clearly a pejorative term to denigrate something by attaching it to Obama as a scapegoat. Like "Obamacare" (The Affordable Care Act) which, as a Mass. resident you clearly know is really Romneycare. You didn't coin the term, obamaphone, but you are using it to support a meme that is inaccurate and inflammatory because you and your political ilk don't like him and don't like any kind of generosity to those less fortunate that you (the "takers" as you call them).
The solution is to allow welfare recipients to work without totally cutting off their welfare, as there is currently little incentive for EBT recipients to take a McJob that will cost as much in loss benefits as they see in the paycheck. Stop giving them cell phones, and let them raise their standard of living by working - even if the work is not enough to totally eliminate the need for welfare payments.
Personally, I think we should have a guaranteed basic income for every man, woman and child in this country. This could eliminate welfare and a lot of bureaucracies currently in place to manage all the programs that support those who are less than eking out a living in an economy designed to keep some people at the bottom. Struggling. The economic philosophy that now runs the US of A is based on educating people just enough so they can flip their hamburgers and run the machines that make the people at the top obscenely rich. A society that marginalizes and mass incarcerates the poor. I could go on.
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I agree that people should work in order to pay for things that they feel they need like cell phones. But the problem comes when there is wage stagnation; just because you work two jobs doesn't mean you can make enough money to live on.
Why can't Walmart pay their people better? Instead of pushing their costs on to the rest of us, why can't they pay wages high enough so that their employees don't HAVE to have "Obamaphones" in the first place? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....instead, they pay pittance and rely on the Federal Government to pay welfare, paid for by you and me. And then the rubes get all het up about how they don't want the "takers" to "take" anymore. You know, the corporations and their lobbyists are very clever. They have succeeded in deflecting blame. Instead of blaming Walmart for being so damned stingy, they make us believe that there exists the FSA, and you've fallen for it, SimonDog, just like they hoped you would. You've been royally bamboozled.
I'd love to know how much Trump pays the people who are the dogbodies in his hotels. Do any of his employees have to claim benefits?
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The solution is to allow welfare recipients to work without totally cutting off their welfare, as there is currently little incentive for EBT recipients to take a McJob that will cost as much in loss benefits as they see in the paycheck. Stop giving them cell phones, and let them raise their standard of living by working - even if the work is not enough to totally eliminate the need for welfare payments.
It's up to the Do-Nothing Congress to act upon your suggestion. Good luck with that!
For the life of me, I don't know why you are so upset about cellphones when there are so many other things to be outraged about, like how Hillary was such an "enabler". I mean, what can be more important to the future of this country than Bill Clinton's affairs? Has anyone told Trump that the main advocate for Bill Clinton's impeachment was none other than the ex Pedophile of the House of Representatives, Dennis Hastert? Trump might not want to go there! LOL!
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Like "Obamacare" (The Affordable Care Act) which, as a Mass. resident you clearly know is really Romneycare.
One thing that is conceptually right about Obamacare is the penalty for not being uninsured.
Uninsured people know that they have some insurance - the mandate that ERs treat them first and worry about payment second. The financial penalty for enjoying this "insurance" without paying for it is a step in the right direction.
Why can't Walmart pay their people better? Instead of pushing their costs on to the rest of us, why can't they pay wages high enough so that their employees don't HAVE to have "Obamaphones" in the first place?
Higher wages would result in the costs being passed on to us though a different mechanism - increased prices. At some point, higher wages result in a loss of jobs since the govt can mandate a minimum wage, but cannot mandate that businesses hire people at a wage hire than the value of that person to the business. Besides low wages, some of the working conditions at places like Walmart border on the criminal.
I mean, what can be more important to the future of this country than Bill Clinton's affairs?
I could care less about his affairs. Even so, it was obvious the impeachment wasn't going to go anywhere.
But, when he was sued for $600K, he lied to try to make the case go in his favor. This is no different than someone trying to steal $600K through financial fraud. Even so, it was obvious that the impeachment was a waste of time and not going anywhere. But then, if Trump wins, we will have someone who plays the game of business right up to the edge of fraud - and perhaps has crossed it (as we may learn from the Trump U suit).
Hastert was scum, but it's interesting to see that what the feds got him on was his attempt to enjoy financial privacy - something that is outlawed by banking regulations.
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Henry Ford did something beside making cars, he help create the industrial Giant USA. He did this by at he time paying his employees 5 dollars a week. A completely unheard of wages at the time. Now his employees made enough to afore the cars they were making. Fords competitors were forced to pay a simalr pay packages. The modern American middle class was born from this change. Raise the minimum wage then more money would be available by the average person having more money to spend,
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An interesting article about how welfare payments compare to minimum wage: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/the_work_versus_welfare_trade-off_2013_wp.pdf
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Without reading the entire thread I have concluded that this is the usual discussion, pro and con, on Donald Trump. Consider the following:
1. He has small hands and he wouldn't show his penis to Megyn Kelly.
2. The last time someone campaigned like Trump is doing, Hitler was elected.
3. Obama is not running for office.
4. Trump endorsed by North Korea and Russia.
5. Trump wants to disban NATO.
5. Trump has been in civil court 3,500 times in the last three years.
The important issues facing this nation are not being discussed, yet. Such as:
1. Climate Change.
2. Continuous warfare.
3. ACA vs Medicare for all.
4. Universal voting rights (all citizens.
5. Domestic economy.
6. Infrastructure maintenance.
7. Racism.
8. Congressional obstruction.
9. Judicial appointments.
And so on and on. Get real folks; Donald Trump cannot address the real questions and America needs answers.
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10. Mass incarceration
11. income inequality
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Get real folks; Donald Trump cannot address the real questions and America needs answers.
Unfortunately, his opposition can't either.
At this point, it is about damage control.
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Without reading the entire thread I have concluded that this is the usual discussion, pro and con, on Donald Trump. Consider the following:
The last time someone campaigned like Trump is doing, Hitler was elected.
Thank you Gerald for saying what I have been thinking (and fearing) for a long while ... and ... let's hope we are both wrong ... !
Best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
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https://youtu.be/sD7UREH_rJI
Make what you want of it.
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... Since some of the "big-money-party-sponsors" have already left and/or are now getting ready
to leave the party “alone” (has that ever happened before or is it a special new development...?),
... it seems that the political future of Mr. Donald Trump becomes a bit difficult as a result ... ?
... Of course, it is well known (courtesy of the media), that Mr. Trump is a very successful "wheeler and dealer" ...
... and ... after all, he has already distanced himself from some of his earlier statements ...
but nevertheless, "things" ahead look a bit difficult and ...
one can only hope that history (November 22, 1963) won't repeat itself ...
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He's like a spoiled child testing the limits of his criminality. His crookedness seems to have no limits, but it remains to be seen whether "the system" imposes any on him. There are still plenty of big money donors who have the same whacked out values that he has, e.g. the The Success hedge fund.
IMHO the Donald is spinning out of control--psychologically-- and is taking his campaign with him. He doesn't really want to be president. He just wants to be able to say that he could have been. And then will use this new notoriety to build a media empire.
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In my opinion Hillary needs to be in jail. If anyone else did what she has done they would be.
She doesn't want to be president either... Bill does.
Trump has my vote. :cheer:
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Trump has my vote.
When he ushers in the 4th Reich and fascism flourishes in this country, we will have you and others who have been bamboozled by Donald, the Fraud, Drumpf to thank.
And you're wrong. David Petraeus spilled many classified secrets to this mistress, and he's not in jail. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petraeus-set-to-plead-guilty-to-mishandling-classified-materials/2015/04/22/3e6dbf20-e8f5-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html
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I love the filters people have. I thought this was bad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy) and I think Hillary's email server was bad... but in this case its "leaking classified information" versus then we don't even know what was on those servers because the data was destroyed.
The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee,[6] for various communications of unknown content or purpose.
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Just remember her server was more secure then the official State Department which has been broken into by several hostile govermenrts. The mistake was the Systems people should have stopped this from happening. This did not occur in a vacuum Hilary would have been better served by a Systems professional who stopped this. Over the years on several occurrences I had requests for private servers, I met the request with small corporate servers that were fire walled and protected. The user had their own environment and I new it met standards and was secure.
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When he ushers in the 4th Reich and fascism flourishes in this country, we will have you and others who have been bamboozled by Donald, the Fraud, Drumpf to thank.
One of the first steps of any totalitarian regime is to disarm the subjects ("History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own down fall by doing so"- A. Hitler).
So far, one candidate has stated that she respects the 2nd amendment, and will respect it while banning guns and campaigning against concealed carry permit laws (as she did in MO). The other is in favor of armed subjects, and even used his connections to get a hens tooth ("fully carry" NYC pistol permit).
Is government oppression of people unthinkable in the US? I thought so at one time, but now that we have seed widespread wiretapping; secret prisons all over the world; a secret FISA court that is closed to the public; and even a secret docket in various federal court, I am not so convinced.
And you're wrong. David Petraeus spilled many classified secrets to this mistress, and he's not in jail. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petraeus-set-to-plead-guilty-to-mishandling-classified-materials/2015/04/22/3e6dbf20-e8f5-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html
He did not go to jail, but at least he was prosecuted. His power got this charges reduced to misdemeanors though.
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Is this man fit to be...even a dog catcher?
https://38.media.tumblr.com/b4e9fc1b6169cbf7b669dbcf9abb1093/tumblr_ntbumnmnrz1qksk74o2_500.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/12fe0857e7e266f82ce25646b1c08c6e/tumblr_ntbumnmnrz1qksk74o3_500.gif
http://static.businessinsider.com/image/55e71f0c6bb3f7315594b655/image.gif
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I know... It is sad that even Trump is better than Crocked Hillary.
:pray; for our country.
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I know... It is sad that even Trump is better than Crocked Hillary.
:pray; for our country.
A tech guy, Dave Winer, who was involved in inventing or popularizing RSS, decided to add the crooked title to everyone on the right as well:
http://scripting.com/2016/07/20/1396.html
I don't think its acceptable to both parties to be so demeaning, but I do understand if people are going to be so nasty to Hillary then its fair game for the people on the right to belittled as well.
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It is true that Hillary Clinton lied about being under fire when she deplaned somewhere in Europe some years ago. And it is true that she was not telling the truth when she told the public that none of her emails contained classified information, although it is also true that the information those emails contained were only later labeled as "classified".
But other than those two incidents, I don't know what else she has said that has been proven to be a lie, nor what she has done that has been proven to be illegal.
It may look bad from Bernie's point of view that she was paid a lot of money for speeches, but this was not illegal nor was it unusual for for Secretaries of State to give speeches. She, like many speakers, charge a fee, and if people do not want to pay this fee, then they can look elsewhere for a speaker. Her name recognition makes her a valuable choice.
So when people call her "crooked", what exactly are they referring to? She and her staff have been under investigation for well over a year by Republicans in Congress and by the FBI for Benghazi and emails, but no one has found any evidence of her ever lying under oath and thus worthy of punishment.
If anyone is a liar, it is Donald Trump. He has no intention of building a wall, deporting illegal immigrants, pulling out of NATO, saving the middle class or addressing income inequality. He has no intention of doing anything, which is why his son approached John Kasich and told him that he could, in effect, be president because actually governing isn't really Trump's thing. Trump is going to get bored really quickly if he becomes president because being president requires doing things that are frankly really, really dull.
And by the way, he did not write "The Art of the Deal". He has lied about that.
I honestly have not once heard what Donald Trump wants to do during his presidency AND HOW HE WILL FUND THOSE PLANS OR IMPLEMENT THOSE PLANS. Can one single person on this board give me one single example of one single plan that he has fully thought through?
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So when people call her "crooked", what exactly are they referring to?
For starters, the long history of people who need favors from the State Department just happening to get them after making a sizeable donation to the Clinton Foundation. When I was watching my kid graduate from Harvard with the Clinton Foundation president as speaker, I was thinking "I wonder how many other graduations have an organized crime kingpin as the speaker". She also made a comment about upcoming Yellow Fever that makes me wonder what she knows that I don't.
People tend to find fault in the candidates whose position on issues does not agree with theirs, and exonerate those whose position does. I suspect if a Republican exhibited a similar level of sleaze you would not be so quick to defend that person.
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I suspect if a Republican exhibited a similar level of sleaze you would not be so quick to defend that person.
I'm positive that they do. It's just that their very existence doesn't trigger an investigation.
If, in fact, the "sleaze" is proven to be real, it wouldn't matter to me what side of the aisle they came from. I would be repulsed by it in either case.
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I suspect if a Republican exhibited a similar level of sleaze you would not be so quick to defend that person.
I'm positive that they do. It's just that their very existence doesn't trigger an investigation.
If, in fact, the "sleaze" is proven to be real, it wouldn't matter to me what side of the aisle they came from. I would be repulsed by it in either case.
I believe you.
If there were a sleazy Democrat who represented your ideals and a clean Republican who had no sleaze factor, but was opposed to your ideals, who would get your vote?
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If there were a sleazy Democrat who represented your ideals and a clean Republican who had no sleaze factor, but was opposed to your ideals, who would get your vote?
First of all, I don't even know what I will be doing in this election. I need to think hard. Second of all, as so many politicians are quick to say, I don't deal in hypotheticals (however that is spelled.). First challenge is to find a "clean" Republican. I dare you. Frankly though, I can't imagine voting for a Republican. Their values are way to whacked out for me. I would probably retreat to my disenfranchised corner and weep.
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Men I feel for you poor Americans. Talking about choosing between a rock and a hard place
:grouphug;
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It is true that Hillary Clinton lied about being under fire when she deplaned somewhere in Europe some years ago. And it is true that she was not telling the truth when she told the public that none of her emails contained classified information, although it is also true that the information those emails contained were only later labeled as "classified".
But other than those two incidents, I don't know what else she has said that has been proven to be a lie, nor what she has done that has been proven to be illegal.
It may look bad from Bernie's point of view that she was paid a lot of money for speeches, but this was not illegal nor was it unusual for for Secretaries of State to give speeches. She, like many speakers, charge a fee, and if people do not want to pay this fee, then they can look elsewhere for a speaker. Her name recognition makes her a valuable choice.
So when people call her "crooked", what exactly are they referring to? She and her staff have been under investigation for well over a year by Republicans in Congress and by the FBI for Benghazi and emails, but no one has found any evidence of her ever lying under oath and thus worthy of punishment.
If anyone is a liar, it is Donald Trump. He has no intention of building a wall, deporting illegal immigrants, pulling out of NATO, saving the middle class or addressing income inequality. He has no intention of doing anything, which is why his son approached John Kasich and told him that he could, in effect, be president because actually governing isn't really Trump's thing. Trump is going to get bored really quickly if he becomes president because being president requires doing things that are frankly really, really dull.
And by the way, he did not write "The Art of the Deal". He has lied about that.
I honestly have not once heard what Donald Trump wants to do during his presidency AND HOW HE WILL FUND THOSE PLANS OR IMPLEMENT THOSE PLANS. Can one single person on this board give me one single example of one single plan that he has fully thought through?
Here are a few other proven Hillary lies:
she said she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary, the conqueror of Mount Everest — even though she was already 6 years old when he made his famous ascent.
She blamed a "disgusting" internet video for the Benghazi attacks in her conversations with family members of those killed as well as the nation, despite having told a foreign leader two days earlier that the video played no role and having emailed daughter Chelsea that a terrorist group had carried out the attack.
Saying she and Bill were "dead broke" when leaving the White House.
And, you are wrong about the classified emails at the time she was receiving them. FBI director Comey stated 7 email chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program at that time, not down the road as you assert.
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Sutureself, or whoever you are these days, who cares what Hillary said about her name?
As for Benghazi, there was a CIA facility nearby, so what families were told was probably dictated by security concerns from them. The republicans grilled her for eleven circus act filled hours and found nothing. But I grant you that the initial info given to the public was chaotic, which is what happens when departments get territorial and don't cooperate with each other to share info.
I don't care what she said about her finances upon leaving the White House! So bloody what?
Yes, Comey did say seven emails did turn out to be classified, and he rightly chastised everyone involved. But he found no reason to recommend prosecution. But that fact seems to satisfy no one who has already bought into the idea invoked by a Trump operative that she should be put in front of a wall and shot and killed as a traitor. Thankfully, that Trump guy is now a person of interest to the FBI.
Can you answer my queries about Trump's plans and how he will pay for tax cuts for his mates in big business AND build that beautiful wall? Why was the convention all about Hillary and not about Trump?
What do you think about what his ghostwriter has said about him?
sp mod cas
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First of all, I don't even know what I will be doing in this election. I need to think hard.
No thinking required.
MA always gives its electoral votes to the Democrat so your vote does not matter.
If it were an across the board popular vote, your vote would count - but that is not the case.
sp mod Cas
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Yeah, living in IL I realize the same thing. I still vote as a matter of personal protest (and I will be writing in a candidate this year for president) but I know that IL will always and forever be a Democratic state. There just isn't enough population outside of Cook County to disable the Democratic machine.
First of all, I don't even know what I will be doing in this election. I need to think hard.
No thinking required.
MA always gives its electoral votes to the Democrat so your vote does not matter.
It it were an across the board popular vote, your vote would count - but that is not the case.
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Well, in IL there is Mark Kirk and Bruce Rauner, both Republicans.
As for states being solidly one color, that pretty much describes the entire Confederate South.
Of course, we could all push for a Constitutional Amendment that abolishes the Electoral College.
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Here are a few other proven Hillary lies:
she said she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary, the conqueror of Mount Everest — even though she was already 6 years old when he made his famous ascent.
She blamed a "disgusting" internet video for the Benghazi attacks in her conversations with family members of those killed as well as the nation, despite having told a foreign leader two days earlier that the video played no role and having emailed daughter Chelsea that a terrorist group had carried out the attack.
Saying she and Bill were "dead broke" when leaving the White House.
And, you are wrong about the classified emails at the time she was receiving them. FBI director Comey stated 7 email chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program at that time, not down the road as you assert.
THIS!!! :thumbup;
Who did she lie to face to face about Benghazi? The families of the guys who were killed. Told them it was the video's fault. On 9/11/12....
And what did Hilary have to say "What does it matter at this point anyway".... That would crush a mother's heart.
sp mod Cas
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Well, in IL there is Mark Kirk and Bruce Rauner, both Republicans.
My wife keeps reminding me of the time Bruce Rauner drank out of her shoe many years ago. I told her she should have boated that bass instead of me.
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Sutureself, or whoever you are these days, who cares what Hillary said about her name?
As for Benghazi, there was a CIA facility nearby, so what families were told was probably dictated by security concerns from them. The republicans grilled her for eleven circus act filled hours and found nothing. But I grant you that the initial info given to the public was chaotic, which is what happens when departments get territorial and don't cooperate with each other to share info.
I don't care what she said about her finances upon leaving the White House! So bloody what?
Yes, Comey did say seven emails did turn out to be classified, and he rightly chastised everyone involved. But he found no reason to recommend prosecution. But that fact seems to satisfy no one who has already bought into the idea invoked by a Trump operative that she should be put in front of a wall and shot and killed as a traitor. Thankfully, that Trump guy is now a person of interest to the FBI.
Can you answer my queries about Trump's plans and how he will pay for tax cuts for his mates in big business AND build that beautiful wall? Why was the convention all about Hillary and not about Trump?
What do you think about what his ghostwriter has said about him?
sp mod cas
Who cares? These examples, and there are more, say much about her character - or lack thereof.
I too am waiting for the details on how Trump expects to fund his agenda. Considering 45% of Americans pay NO federal taxes already (but can still get money back through the redistribution EIC Program) lowering the tax rate on businesses and the middle class is a good start.
However, unless Trump does something totally egregious (he's not a sexist or racist - if so, he could never have succeeded in all his businesses as he has), I will vote for him. I'm a moderate conservative and vote for the party of less government. No matter how bad he might be for four years, Trump will cause less damage than Clinton. She would set the county back at least 4 generations if able to pack the federal courts and supreme court with leftist, progressive activist judges alone.
And it's not up to government to provide free college to all. Our educational system has already been dumbed down enough because of Hope scholarships - of which 40% of recipients have to take remedial English and math courses their freshman year in college. Plus, a mandated $15 minimum wage will only lead to fewer people employed with mainly teenagers looking for part time summer or after school jobs feeling the brunt of it. Besides, only 4.3% of workers just make minimum wage as it is. Let the free enterprise market place determine salaries.
I can go on, but since you and the vast majority of others who have posted on this thread are progressive lefties who believe that government exists to solve all problems and will vote for dems no matter what, it would be pointless.
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And it's not up to government to provide free college to all. Our educational system has already been dumbed down enough because of Hope scholarships - of which 40% of recipients have to take remedial English and math courses their freshman year in college. Plus, a mandated $15 minimum wage will only lead to fewer people employed with mainly teenagers looking for part time summer or after school jobs feeling the brunt of it. Besides, only 4.3% of workers just make minimum wage as it is. Let the free enterprise market place determine salaries.
Government student loans have cause the spiraling of college tuition and fees. Colleges not longer think "are we pricing ourselves out of the market" but "education is a bargain at ANY price, and the government will loan our students as much as we want to charge". When the new building ofr fancy dorm goes up, nobody asks "how will this effect affordability".
What is seriously lacking is meaningful high school counseling as to the prospect for employment with various degrees, and the consequences of taking out a massive loan that is exempt from all bankruptcy protections and as hard to eradicate as pancreatic cancer.
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There are no more low skill / high paying jobs anymore. We use to have Kaiser Aluminium here but no more. All the industry jobs are gone overseas. So, the answer is to get the loans and get educated in something (Medical). I hope Trump can bring the jobs and industry back to the U.S.A.
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I am reading these posts with a tremendous amount of fear for our country and its future. I am not a huge Clinton fan, but would vote for her a thousand times over before I gave my support to Donald Trump. The fact that we are still dwelling on her Benghazi "at this point, what does it matter" comment, speaks volumes to me. Listen to the entire interview. She says that, after being asked a ridiculous question about whether or not the attackers stemmed from a protest or set out to harm Americans. Her answer isn't in reference to the American lives lost, but where the terrorists came from who killed them. Come on, people. The Internet is available to nearly all Americans (and obviously to people on this forum). Do your homework. Don't repeat things you hear on FOX news as facts. Research Donald Trump's casino deals in Atlantic City, where he helped ruin the so-called working class people he loves so much. Listen to his answers about serious issues that he clearly has no clue about. Research his comments about women and minorities. He displays all the qualities of a sociopath. And "making America great again" means taking us back 30 years. America is great now! I watched the RNC and didn't know whether to laugh or cry. We are allowing ourselves to be duped by a salesman who makes up his own statistics and uses fear to bring out the worst traits in every person who supports him. And don't even get me started on Mike Pence. Please, please, do some research before casting your vote. It really isn't a race between Democrats and Republicans this election year. It is a race between sanity and bat s%#t crazy. Just my opinion, of course.
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It is a race between sanity and bat s%#t crazy. Just my opinion, of course.
I agree. I am casting my vote against increased government control of my life and redistribution of my income and assets.
But, I live in MA where the outcome is such a foregone conclusion that neither candidate will spend any money trying to lure voters in this state.
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Donald Trump is a total fabrication. He is a self-built myth. The Wizard of Oz--nothing but a little man who happens to be a sociopath with a major Narcissistic Personality Disorder (certifiable) hiding behind a mythological brand. Plus he is an attention-deficit disordered ignorant man with no moral compass. He's a total phony. Didn't even write The Art of the Deal that made him famous and built the mythology that is Donald Trump. Read the account by the man who actually wrote the book and, with huge regrets, created the mythology that you Trump rubes now grasp on to as your Savior. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
Did you know that DT offered the Vice presidency to both Kasich and now Pense with the caveat that they would be serving as the actual president and doing all the "governing" while DT simply waves the ra ra flag to invoke hatred and divisiveness to Make America Hate Again?
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:thumbup; kickingandscreaming. The part I am completely amazed by, is that most people don't see it. I hate to make the comparison, but Hitler and Mussolini come to mind. Good people blindly following a crazy person who says what they want to hear. Closing borders, building a wall, lowering taxes, improving infrastructure, deportations, increased military, support for our veterans, ending the affordable care act...the list goes on and on. His tax cuts will benefit his rich buddies (including himself and his kids) to the tune of 1.2 million dollars EACH. The total amount will be staggering. While a few, and very few, of these ideas are good ones, at no point is there a plan for where this money is going to come from. We need to pull together as Americans, and stop letting this man divide us with fear mongering, bigotry and racism. We are not perfect. There are changes that need to be made. But only by working together can we accomplish anything. And that needs to start now. No more partisan political BS. Pay attention people. We are headed down a very dangerous road.
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Sutureself, I'm not going to discuss Hillary Clinton's "character" when someone like Donald Trump has so many personality flaws that it boggles the mind. Neither candidate is perfect, but Trump is just...well, words fail me.
I certainly don't think government is there to fix all problems, but again, that is beside the point because Trump is not remotely interested in government. What the role of government actually is, which has already been debated for centuries in this country, will most certainly not be defined by Trump.
Trump is NOT for "less government". Much much much MORE "government" will be required should he be elected and decides to build a wall between us and Mexico, stop Muslims from entering the country, destroy ISIS single-handedly, and deport all of the illegal immigrants who are currently living here. And how will all of these goals be paid for, especially if there are further tax cuts? How can anyone who describes him/herself as a "moderate conservative" even entertain a vote for Trump, who is neither "moderate" nor "conservative"?
I don't know what to think about "free college" when there are universities that pay millions of dollars to football coaches. Sports in universities, in my opinion, is a scam.
Why can we not have higher taxes for the very rich people? We would not have to fund welfare payments for Walmart employees if Walmart's owners and the company as a whole paid the taxes they should be paying. Income inequality, and the warped tax system that is a consequence of that, is a very real problem. Donald Trump is not interested in policies that would address this..
To throw up your hands and say that it is pointless to converse with "progressive lefties" is intellectually lazy. Tell me why I should vote for Trump. Don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for Clinton; I've heard all of that. But I challenge anyone and everyone to convince me how and why Donald Trump is the best person to lead this nation. I actually believe that he has a good chance of winning, and that scares me. So comfort me. Reassure me. Tell me what he will do for me. Tell me what he will do for you. Tell me what he will do for our overseas allies. Tell me what he will do for the world. Convince me that he will be thoughtful and competent and not just hand the helm over to his crew while he goes out and sells more steaks.
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Who did she lie to face to face about Benghazi? The families of the guys who were killed. Told them it was the video's fault. On 9/11/12....
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/09/what-did-hillary-clinton-tell-families-people-who-/
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Sutureself, I'm not going to discuss Hillary Clinton's "character" when someone like Donald Trump has so many personality flaws that it boggles the mind. Neither candidate is perfect, but Trump is just...well, words fail me.
Both sides will have no problem finding character faults in the other side's candidate - they both carry a lot of baggage.
The tendency is to forgive your side's candidates (as demonstrated by comments like "not going to discuss Clinton's character) and excoriate the opposition candidate.
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Simon Dog, I'm not going to discuss Clinton's character because she has been under the microscope for decades, and as I do not know her personally, I have nothing to add to the countless words already written about this very subject. You incorrectly assume that I have "forgiven" her. I will continue to "excoriate" the opposition candidate, however, until you or anyone else can tell me why I should support Mr. Trump. Perhaps you can convince me?
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Who did she lie to face to face about Benghazi? The families of the guys who were killed. Told them it was the video's fault. On 9/11/12....
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/09/what-did-hillary-clinton-tell-families-people-who-/
Watch this MM. Of course just because it is on Fox News you will say the Mother of Sean Smith is lying:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/23/families-benghazi-victims-say-clinton-dishonest.html
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Perhaps you can convince me?
I doubt I can, because we probably have very different views of both the relationship of government to the individual, and the role of government.
It doesn't necessarily mean one of us is right; just that we have different views on things like immigration; income redistribution; tax policy and gun control. We probably have very similar views on reproductive freedom and gay/lesbian/intersex rights. Just guessing though.
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Perhaps you can convince me?
I doubt I can, because we probably have very different views of both the relationship of government to the individual, and the role of government.
It doesn't necessarily mean one of us is right; just that we have different views on things like immigration; income redistribution; tax policy and gun control. We probably have very similar views on reproductive freedom and gay/lesbian/intersex rights. Just guessing though.
I would like to hear your views on these topic and how you feel that Donald Trump will craft policy. It doesn't matter to me if we have different views. I don't need to hear people agree with me as my own views are still somewhat under construction, so I am certainly open to others' ideas. I don't need to be right. I'd rather be informed!
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Watch this MM. Of course just because it is on Fox News you will say the Mother of Sean Smith is lying:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/23/families-benghazi-victims-say-clinton-dishonest.html
Well, that's rather unfair for you to say. For some reason, that link won't open for me, but nonetheless, I'm not going to accuse a grieving mother of lying. God will know whether or not Mrs. Smith is lying, and that's enough for me.
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According to the news today Democrats and Republicans do share one interest; ALL email matters! :rofl;
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According to the news today Democrats and Republicans do share one interest; ALL email matters! :rofl;
And thank goodness that DWS is going! Thank you, WikiLeaks!!
In any case, it doesn't really matter because I personally believe that Trump will win and the US version of Brexit will begin. And we won't have two years to faff about with any Article 50-style waffling!
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Is there anywhere on earth that someone tethered to a D machine can move to?
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DWS is now hired by the Clinton Campaign? :rofl;
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DWS is now hired by the Clinton Campaign? :rofl;
No.
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Is there anywhere on earth that someone tethered to a D machine can move to?
Many places, including most all of the civilized planet including Canada, Europe and many parts of Asia. In fact some countries offer better treatment that the us. For example, there is always a neph on duty in Italian clinics.
The problem is that many, perhaps even most, won't have someone else pay for your treatment.
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The problem is that many, perhaps even most, won't have someone else pay for your treatment.
So I guess I'm stuck here. :'(
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The problem is that many, perhaps even most, won't have someone else pay for your treatment.
So I guess I'm stuck here. :'(
No don't worry, most European countries (incl Italy) the patient doesn't pay.
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No don't worry, most European countries (incl Italy) the patient doesn't pay
Even if you're not a citizen?
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I go to watch some news today and what do I see? Chaos at the DNC.
Irony of the day? Dem Representative Marcia Fudge saying "We are all Democrats and we need to act like it!" uh, yeah! :2thumbsup;
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No don't worry, most European countries (incl Italy) the patient doesn't pay
Even if you're not a citizen?
Sorry K&S I assumed you were talking immigration (as in moving) and than being a resident ;D
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Sorry K&S I assumed you were talking immigration (as in moving) and than being a resident ;D
I was. It's just that becoming a citizen isn't an overnight process. And in the meantime, what would I do about D?
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Not ony that, but when one has an expensive chronic medical condition like ESRD, can they actually immigrate to the UK? Especially from a country like the US, which has no "real" public healthcare, and as such, no healthcare agreements with other countries? I know we are out of luck when it comes to immigrating to places like Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. I think the only way around it - mayyyyybe is to marry a citizen of one of those countries, and even then, I'm not so sure they'd be willing to take one of us.
KarenInWA
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Sorry K&S I assumed you were talking immigration (as in moving) and than being a resident ;D
I was. It's just that becoming a citizen isn't an overnight process. And in the meantime, what would I do about D?
What is interesting here is that you are bumping into Trumpism as the obstacle to moving to one of the socialist paradises you are considering fleeing to if the Donald wins. The unwillingness of another nation to make you the target of income/asset redistribution (via free dialysis to the tune of tens of thousands a year) is indeed a serious obstacle. I would venture to guess that an illegal immigrant to the US has a better chance of free dialysis than a US citizen moving to a country with national health care. Kind of ironic.
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I go to watch some news today and what do I see? Chaos at the DNC.
Irony of the day? Dem Representative Marcia Fudge saying "We are all Democrats and we need to act like it!" uh, yeah! :2thumbsup;
Oh, so you missed Senator Booker, Michelle Obama, Paul Simon, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, then. And you also obviously missed the speech by the widow of a veteran who spent her widows' pension on an education from Trump University and got scammed.
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And you also obviously missed the speech by the widow of a veteran who spent her widows' pension on an education from Trump University and got scammed.
There is another interesting case where high end condo buyers lost large deposits thinking they were buying a Trump property and in reality bought into a different company that had simply rented the right to use the Trump name (with no performance guarantee from Trump).
Trump plays business by full contact rules, where screw anyone as long as you don't go to prison for it is the order of the day.
If he becomes president, I can only hope that he brings these skills to dealing with Iran and our so-called "trading partners".
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Sorry K&S I assumed you were talking immigration (as in moving) and than being a resident ;D
I was. It's just that becoming a citizen isn't an overnight process. And in the meantime, what would I do about D?
When I was on dialysis in CA there were several illegals on dialysis. Plus one got a free transplant.
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When I was on dialysis in CA there were several illegals on dialysis. Plus one got a free transplant.
CAlifornia or CAnada,eh?
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Another irony; Dems erected a SECOND 8 foot wall near the stage at the convention to keep people safe and uh, undesirables out. Say wha??? :rofl;
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Why won't Trump release his tax returns? It is a LIE that he is unable to release them because they are being audited. The IRS has said that Mr. Trump has the freedom to release his tax returns. So, why has he not? If Hillary Clinton refused to release hers, everyone would be in an uproar. So why are Trump supporters OK with not seeing his returns?
What is Trump hiding? Does he not support any charities? Are his businesses not as successful as he has been claiming? Or is he hiding business dealings with Russia's oligarchs who are the ones who keep Putin in power?
Why do Trump supporters love Vlad so much? Do they want to abdicate their responsibilities that come with living in a democracy? Is what they want is some strongman/daddy figure that tells them, "Don't you worry your pretty little empty head about anything because I am going to single-handedly do it for you."?
Here is what Putin has always wanted. He wants to break up NATO because he wants eastern Europe countries back within Russian influence. He has started with Crimea. He also wants to break up the EU, so Brexiteers have played right into his hands. Putin's soul mate, Donald J. Trump, said that he was pro-Brexit and that he is now questioning the US participation in NATO. Anyone who votes for Trump must understand that there is a Trump-Putin philosophical alliance. Trump has no idea that Vladimir Putin is the master puppeteer.
And since Trump has no real interest in governing, we're seeing a Putin-Pence ticket.
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Why won't Trump release his tax returns?
My guesses:
1. Charitable deductions that are miniscule relative to income
2. Legal mechanisms use to pay a low effective tax rate
Neither of which would help his "for the people" image.
But, there won't be any foundation that co-incidentally receives million dollar donations for people he subsequently gives political favors to.
People only care about this stuff when the other side does it. You are right - Trump supporters would be in an uproar if Clinton did not release hers, but Clinton supports would tend to forgive that. People care more about the type of government a candidate represents (tax and social policy, etc.) than the personal integrity of the individual.
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Ah, but you see, that's the point. We are allowed to see information about the Clinton Foundation, and we are also free to come to any conclusions we like. If you want to believe that the foundation helps people world wide, you can do that. If not, that's ok, too.
But we can only GUESS, as you say, what Trump is up to. We know that he is currently being investigated for fraud, we know that Trump University was a scam, but we are not allowed to see his full financial story. As you say, we can only GUESS. He thinks we are too stupid to be able to understand his returns because they are "complicated".
Why is there a different standard of transparency for Trump? He is the one who is crooked. That's a standard deflection tactic...call someone else "crooked" before they can do the same to you.
He's hiding something big time. We need to find out what it is. He needs to release those tax returns before the election. We really need to know what's going on here.
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If you want to believe that the foundation helps people world wide, you can do that. If not, that's ok, too.
1. I believe the foundation does indeed help people.
2. The fact that the foundation helps people is not inconsistent with the pay to play system
Why is there a different standard of transparency for Trump? He is the one who is crooked. That's a standard deflection tactic...call someone else "crooked" before they can do the same to you.
They are both crooked, just different flavors.
He's hiding something big time. We need to find out what it is. He needs to release those tax returns before the election. We really need to know what's going on here.
My guess is "legal but sleazy" rather than "criminal".
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He's hiding something big time. We need to find out what it is. He needs to release those tax returns before the election. We really need to know what's going on here.
Der Drumpfenfuhrer is heavily tied to Russian money. He is in debt way beyond his eyeballs and after his bankruptcies has been persona non grata in American banks. But lots of Russian money has been keeping his "empire" afloat. Hence the bromance with Vlad (I looked into his soul) Putin. A very nasty man. Much smarter and wilier than Herr Drumpf. The Russians probably have him by the financial cajones (if he actually has any).
I've wanted to focus on unimpeachable, undisputed and publicly known facts. These alone paint a stark and highly troubling picture.
To put this all into perspective, if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction, combined with this much solicitousness of Putin's policy agenda, it would set off alarm bells galore. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. And yet Putin is not the CEO of an American corporation. He's the autocrat who rules a foreign state, with an increasingly hostile posture towards the United States and a substantial stockpile of nuclear weapons. The stakes involved in finding out 'what's going on' as Trump might put it are quite a bit higher.
There is something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence for a financial relationship between Trump and Putin or a non-tacit alliance between the two men. Even if you draw no adverse conclusions, Trump's financial empire is heavily leveraged and has a deep reliance on capital infusions from oligarchs and other sources of wealth aligned with Putin. That's simply not something that can be waved off or ignored.
Lots more at: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing
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My guess is "legal but sleazy" rather than "criminal".
Again, "guessing" isn't good enough, and that's why we need to see his tax returns before the election so that we can be sure there is nothing CRIMINAL there. It's just that simple.
I also want to see his birth certificate because I suspect that he is a secret Russian. Whether or not you like or dislike Hillary Clinton, one can't deny that she has been under intense scrutiny for decades. You also can't deny that when you really think about it, we don't know much at all about Trump.
It's very telling to note that none of Trumps friends (does he have any?) NOR business partners/associates spoke for him at the convention nor at any other event, really. The only ones who did were his kids or political losers (Chris "The Donut" Christie) who wanted to get on his good side.
Trump yells about Hillary Clinton's "character", but I have yet to see anyone outside of his family say anything GOOD about HIS character.
Donald Trump aka Putin's Pal.
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My guess is "legal but sleazy" rather than "criminal".
Again, "guessing" isn't good enough, and that's why we need to see his tax returns before the election so that we can be sure there is nothing CRIMINAL there. It's just that simple.
I also want to see his birth certificate because I suspect that he is a secret Russian. Whether or not you like or dislike Hillary Clinton, one can't deny that she has been under intense scrutiny for decades. You also can't deny that when you really think about it, we don't know much at all about Trump.
It's very telling to note that none of Trumps friends (does he have any?) NOR business partners/associates spoke for him at the convention nor at any other event, really. The only ones who did were his kids or political losers (Chris "The Donut" Christie) who wanted to get on his good side.
Trump yells about Hillary Clinton's "character", but I have yet to see anyone outside of his family say anything GOOD about HIS character.
Donald Trump aka Putin's Pal.
Agreed ! ... and I would also like to know how he actually made all his money so very, very quickly ... and ... it really sounds a little strange when we hear him shouting against illegal workers
and illegal immigrants ... and at the same time we are being told that he made his millions in the building-trade ... and ... we are also being told... that without illegal workers the building-trade would not be flourishing at all ... so ... things don't really seem to add up... ?
sp mod Cas
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if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction,
A key difference is that Trump is not in a position to doll out government or State Department favors in return for the money. If he is elected, taking any money would be downright criminal and not subject to the powerful person exemption afforded Clinton.
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My guess is "legal but sleazy" rather than "criminal".
Again, "guessing" isn't good enough, and that's why we need to see his tax returns before the election so that we can be sure there is nothing CRIMINAL there. It's just that simple.
I also want to see his birth certificate because I suspect that he is a secret Russian. Whether or not you like or dislike Hillary Clinton, one can't deny that she has been under intense scrutiny for decades. You also can't deny that when you really think about it, we don't know much at all about Trump.
It's very telling to note that none of Trumps friends (does he have any?) NOR business partners/associates spoke for him at the convention nor at any other event, really. The only ones who did were his kids or political losers (Chris "The Donut" Christie) who wanted to get on his good side.
Trump yells about Hillary Clinton's "character", but I have yet to see anyone outside of his family say anything GOOD about HIS character.
Donald Trump aka Putin's Pal.
The convention isn't the place for "friends" to speak. It's more for politicians and political allies. As for his friends, the lefty resources you read/watch wouldn't go out looking for them, so of course you would believe he has none.
This from a recent issue of People magazine:
Several friends of the real estate mogul tell PEOPLE that his bellow and bluster is an act, put on by a salesman and reality-TV star for ratings.
"Donald is a showbiz guy, and his talk is his shtick," says Trump's friend Christopher Ruddy. The offstage Trump, he adds, is "caring and kind."
A Jewish member of Trump's Mar-a-Lago club in South Florida credits him with "really opening Palm Beach to the Jewish population."
Another club member and longtime friend, Robin Bernstein, says Trump is a "workaholic deep thinker … He asks many people around him the same questions because he wants to hear all sides of an issue." Berstein adds that he's truly supportive of women.
Another friend, Omarosa Manigault, who starred on Trump's TV competition series The Apprentice, says he hasn't "made the total shift from entertainer."
And "when it comes to diversity, he puts his money where his mouth is," adds Manigault, who credits Trump with financing her idea of a minority version of The Bachelorette and letting her take it to an all-black network.
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He's not a citizen so of course acknowledges that he can't vote here but I agree with much of what Milo Yiannopoulos is saying and why he hopes Americans vote for Trump. I would post the link to his recent speech but Milo is a very colorful guy who uses very colorful language and I don't think the ihd site would want that on here. But if you can get past his language and antics, listen closely to what Milo is really saying. It's all about freedom.
For those who want to listen to his speech, you can Google "Milo Yiannopoulos at America First Rally RNC" 07-18-16 on youtube (again, I have to caution because of his language).
edited by author to change hhd to ihd
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Donald's quip about hoping Russia finds Hillary'd 30,000 lost emails has the Dems in a up roar.
How easily we forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYGsadcBiFA
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You know, Rerun, that there are some things that are unwise to "quip" about in this dangerous world. And suggesting cyber-espionage to an adversary of this country is one of them. It shows horrific judgment on his part. And even worse judgment on yours.
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SutureSelf, I disagree. Most people don't pay attention to politics until the conventions, so the conventions are EXACTLY the place where both FRIENDS and political allies should be talking about the different sides of the candidate. This is EXACTLY the venue where a candidate is formally introduced to the American electorate. So why isn't Trump politically astute enough to bring on his personal friends to show us the "real" side of Trump, to tell us that what we see on our screens is really just an act and is NOT who Trump really is? Don't you think we need to know that? So, what you are saying is that Trump's "friends" are telling us that he is a fake, after all, that the public side of him that we see walking through the fog is just a show. THAT's what we need in a leader. All show, no substance. Here was his chance to show American and the world who is REALLY is, and he didn't take it.
Rerun, if you want to see the personal emails that Hillary Clinton deleted (which was her prerogative, just as it is has been the prerogative of past Secretaries), then I want to see what Trump is hiding in his tax returns. Why is he protecting Putin and his oligarch friends? And it is not just Dems who are in an uproar. Our cybersecurity services are VERY interested in what is REALLY behind Trump's "quip".
Trump-Putin 2016. Has a certain ring to it...
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He's not a citizen so of course acknowledges that he can't vote here but I agree with much of what Milo Yiannopoulos is saying and why he hopes Americans vote for Trump. I would post the link to his recent speech but Milo is a very colorful guy who uses very colorful language and I don't think the ihd site would want that on here. But if you can get past his language and antics, listen closely to what Milo is really saying. It's all about freedom.
For those who want to listen to his speech, you can Google "Milo Yiannopoulos at America First Rally RNC" 07-18-16 on youtube (again, I have to caution because of his language).
edited by author to change hhd to ihd
Thank you for posting this link! Here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
1. I agree that college campuses are becoming too Pc, what with their "safe places" and students wanting to uninvite scheduled speakers because they might hear something that hurts their tender feelings. I am dismayed when I hear of these occurrences. American universities should be places where ideas are presented, exchanged, dissected, and then celebrated or dismissed, whichever the case may be.
2. However, I do worry that those who call for action against what they define as "political correctness" are in fact asking for veiled permission to spew hatred, bigotry, misogyny and other putrid verbal vomit, all the while proclaiming that normal, decent people are "too pc".
3. I lived in the UK for a long time and visit often, and I certainly do not agree that Britain looks to the US as some beacon of hope and goodwill!!!!!!!!! What IS he on about?????
4. I don't know what one does about Islamic terrorists, ISIS or any of those groups that really have nothing to do with Islam but yet have everything to do with wanting power over people and killing any and everyone (mostly other Muslims, it must be said) who does not believe as they believe. I understand the West's fear of these groups, and I agree that every country has every right to protect their borders. But it is HOW to protect those borders that is in question, and I do not think that Trump has the answer. Trump wants us all to believe that our borders are leaker than sieves, and that's just not true. Our borders are tighter than ever, we take in fewer refugees than any place in Europe, so again I don't know what Milo is on about.
5. I listened very closely to what Milo said, and I didn't hear anything I would label "freedom". What did you hear that I'm missing?
6. I understand that a gay man would be frightened of Islamic radicals, but I don't understand how he flew from that premise to one that labels the left as also being an enemy of gay men. It's a bit of a non-sequitur. Perhaps you could explain?
Again, thanks for posting the link.
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The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
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students wanting to uninvite scheduled speakers because they might hear something that hurts their tender feelings.
They are not being disinvited because it will hurt feelings, but because those one the progressive liberal side of the issue do not want other students to be exposed to arguments on both sides of the issue.
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Uh oh...now the Haitians are protesting Hillary. They say rotten Hillary should be in jail for funneling money to her brother Tony Rodham and his gold exploitation company that was meant to help the poverty-stricken earthquake victims.
"I deal through the Clinton Foundation. That gets me in-touch with Haitian officials. I hound my brother in-law(Bill) because it's his fund that we're going to get our money from".
-Tony Rodham, brother to Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton
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6. I understand that a gay man would be frightened of Islamic radicals, but I don't understand how he flew from that premise to one that labels the left as also being an enemy of gay men. It's a bit of a non-sequitur. Perhaps you could explain?
Again, thanks for posting the link.
Why did Hillary take donations from countries that make homosexuality a criminal offense punishable by death and where women are not allowed to drive?
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The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
I see the same thing happening on the Fascist Right. Honestly I'm surprised this thread has lasted as long as it has. In my interactions with more conservative people (or person) its fairly clear that neither of us will sway the other.
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The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
Can you translate this into something more coherent?
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6. I understand that a gay man would be frightened of Islamic radicals, but I don't understand how he flew from that premise to one that labels the left as also being an enemy of gay men. It's a bit of a non-sequitur. Perhaps you could explain?
Again, thanks for posting the link.
Why did Hillary take donations from countries that make homosexuality a criminal offense punishable by death and where women are not allowed to drive?
Why are Donald Trump and his kids being bankrolled by the oligarchy in Russia who by no means are pro-democracy? He really must release his tax returns. We HAVE to fully understand his connections to Russia and determine if he is a national security risk.
As for the Clinton foundation taking donations to countries that make homosexuality a criminal offense, well, it was not that long ago that the same could be said for some of own states, yet we continue to provide for them and send them money. I imagine they took such donations because they can use the money to educate girls and promote women's rights, for instance, in countries that may be amenable to change in this regard. Once again, you have not provided an answer to a direct question.
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I see the same thing happening on the Fascist Right. Honestly I'm surprised this thread has lasted as long as it has. In my interactions with more conservative people (or person) its fairly clear that neither of us will sway the other.
But even conservatives will tell you that Donald Trump is not a Conservative.
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Uh oh...now the Haitians are protesting Hillary. They say rotten Hillary should be in jail for funneling money to her brother Tony Rodham and his gold exploitation company that was meant to help the poverty-stricken earthquake victims.
"I deal through the Clinton Foundation. That gets me in-touch with Haitian officials. I hound my brother in-law(Bill) because it's his fund that we're going to get our money from".
-Tony Rodham, brother to Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton
According to the much beloved Breitbart, they do report that there was a protest last year, but whether or not that really happened is debatable.
This might give you a bit more information.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/11/us/politics/tony-rodhams-ties-invite-scrutiny-forhillary-and-bill-clinton.html?_r=0
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In Hillary's world, it's okay for her to take donations from countries that make homosexuality a crime punishable by death, don't allow women to drive, shoot little girls trying to go to school and slaughter Christians so long as she uses the money for a good cause; her own personal bank account. What Hillary continues to display is her longtime love affair with Saul Alinsky and his rules for radicals, specifically the rule that states, "Ends justify the means". :(
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Prime Timer: I don't even know where to begin to decipher the word salad that spews from your ...wherever. It's this kind of random stabbing in the dark kind of thinking that makes me despair for the future of our species and planet. Get a grip. I really wish Hillary had paid MORE attention to Mr. Alinsky when she wrote her senior thesis on his thought. She is so far from an Alinsky-ite that it isn't even funny. Hillary is the closest thing to a Republican while still calling herself a Democrat. So, so radical! :sarcasm;
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Yes, it's late and yes, I am tired, however:::::
MM what makes you think you would understand Donald Trumps tax return even if you got to see it. I know your hubby is an attorney, but that has nothing to do with interpreting an income tax return, especially his.
AND
MM and K&S, I dont know how long either of you have been on IHD, but when I joined in 2008, I had to read the rules, one of which was, you will not verbally abuse the admins. Who do you two think you are to talk to Rerun the way you do, as if she was a moron?? In those days, the admins would have booted your butt out and right now.
K&S, I know you like to tell everyone you are old and crochety. Personally I think you are just crochety and being old has nothing to do with it. I am older than you are and I am not a grouch!!
To Iolaire, these two are the reason this thread has stayed on so long, they use each other to feed off the hate!!
I for one am fed up with this childish rudeness. You all can and will do as you please. To each his own.
Jean
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will read all of your love-filled notes tomorrow.
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The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
I really am with you on this point PrimeTimer. I'm not in the know about US politics but undoubtedly the proselytizing left-wingers has become the new fascism in our times, wherever we may be. I also am now following Milos Y after hearing a very articulate interview he gave recently that was loaded with such good rational common sense and a perfectly valid criticism of contemporary PC group-think.
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Jean, I've been a member of this board since early 2007 and have somehow managed not to be kicked out, and I can't for the life of me see where I have abused any mod. Besides, it says that this forum is for those with thick skins only (which obviously wouldn't include Donald Trump), and we all know that discussions can get heated, so if you don't like it, don't visit.
I don't have to be a CPA to understand Donald Trump's tax returns; there are plenty of people out there, including congresspeople and tax attorneys, who could easily decipher his returns and tell us what's going on with him and his Russian money connections. Can you imagine the uproar if Hillary Clinton or any other candidate refused to reveal this information? He is lying when he claims that he can't release them because they are being audited. He simply must release them. If people are going to vote for him because they believe he is the one to lead our economy because of his successful business experience, then we need to see proof that he is indeed a successful businessman. If people are going to vote for him because they believe he is going to bring back jobs because he has already created so many of them, then we need to see proof of that. I would like to know what kind of jobs he has created in the US and also what kind of wages he pays his working class employees. Those are not unreasonable questions that the American electorate are asking. This is not "hate", rather, it is simple enquiry.
Thank you, Jean, for taking the time to post that you are fed up with this conversation and for giving us permission to do as we please. Oh, and thank you for pointing out that is is only myself and K&S who are talking to each other.
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In Hillary's world, it's okay for her to take donations from countries that make homosexuality a crime punishable by death, don't allow women to drive, shoot little girls trying to go to school and slaughter Christians so long as she uses the money for a good cause; her own personal bank account. What Hillary continues to display is her longtime love affair with Saul Alinsky and his rules for radicals, specifically the rule that states, "Ends justify the means". :(
You and I are probably driving cars that are fueled by gasoline that has been refined from oil that the USA imports from countries that make homosexuality a crime punishable by death, don't allow women to drive, shoot little girls trying to go to school and slaughter Christians. Oh, and we also sell them weapons and aircraft that have been manufactured here in this country, providing employment to middle class workers in those industries.
No one cares about Saul Alinsky. I don't think I know anyone who even knows who he is/was.
-
The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
I really am with you on this point PrimeTimer. I'm not in the know about US politics but undoubtedly the proselytizing left-wingers has become the new fascism in our times, wherever we may be. I also am now following Milos Y after hearing a very articulate interview he gave recently that was loaded with such good rational common sense and a perfectly valid criticism of contemporary PC group-think.
Can either of you please tell me what any of this means??? And Athena, are you referring to the same bit of video from Milo Y that Prime Timer and I were discussing? I think perhaps you are. If so, could you respond to my thoughts I've posted previously? I'd be interested in your own thoughts.
One final thing. I was moved by the mother who spoke at the RNC whose son was killed in Benghazi. Who wouldn't be? She blames Hilary Clinton personally. No evidence supports her belief (the blame really should go on the shoulders of the Pentagon, but no one from the Pentagon is running for the presidency), but who would argue with a mother who feels such profound grief? Certainly not anyone is his/her right mind. But when Mr. and Mrs. Khan spoke at the DNC, Donald Trump starts his usual ranting on Twitter. I just do not understand how he gets away with so much. This behavior is so petty, so disgraceful and so cringeworthy. I just don't get the appeal, I really don't. I am truly, truly hoping that someone can tell me what they think Donald Trump is going to do for this country and how he is going to do it. I have asked this question several times, but no one seems to have any ideas. I WANT to be more comfortable with the idea of a Trump presidency because I think there is a real possibility that it could happen, so I am BEGGING you all to PLEASE at least TRY to convince me that he will do us proud.
And what is this about? Are Trump supporters themselves starting to become more like their candidate? This just is not right! It IS NOT RIGHT!
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/mother-of-service-member-booed-over-khan-question-at-pence-rally-226540
(Is there anything in my post that's childish or hateful toward anyone on IHD?)
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No one cares about Saul Alinsky. I don't think I know anyone who even knows who he is/was.
You must not get out much.
"Rules for Radicals" by Alinski is almost as much of classic as "The Prince" by Machiavelli when it comes to dealing with the political system.
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Simon Dog, how many times have you heard the name "Saul Alinsky" in this election cycle? How many times have you heard Donald Trump say that Hillary Clinton follows his teachings? In how many town-hall meetings have members of the audience queried/commented on Saul Alinsky? Oh has perhaps Gov. Pence delivered speeches in which he refers to Alinsky?
No, I thought not.
Do you really think the great American electorate cares about Saul Alinsky?
No, I thought not.
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In Hillary's world, it's okay for her to take donations from countries that make homosexuality a crime punishable by death, don't allow women to drive, shoot little girls trying to go to school and slaughter Christians so long as she uses the money for a good cause; her own personal bank account. What Hillary continues to display is her longtime love affair with Saul Alinsky and his rules for radicals, specifically the rule that states, "Ends justify the means". :(
You and I are probably driving cars that are fueled by gasoline that has been refined from oil that the USA imports from countries that make homosexuality a crime punishable by death, don't allow women to drive, shoot little girls trying to go to school and slaughter Christians. Oh, and we also sell them weapons and aircraft that have been manufactured here in this country, providing employment to middle class workers in those industries.
No one cares about Saul Alinsky. I don't think I know anyone who even knows who he is/was.
As of 2012, oil imported from Saudi Arabia was at a 50 year low of 8.1%. Canada was (and still is) #1 followed by Latin American countries, Africa and others. However, towards the end of 2012 and the following years, Saudi imports rose by 50%. At the end of Hillary's term as Sec. of State, the GOVERNMENT OF SAUDI ARABIA and SAUDI ARABIA INDIVIDUALS had made donations to the CLINTON FOUNDATION of $25 million. Coincidence or PAY TO PLAY?
As for Saul Alinsky...yes, the average American probably has no idea who he is. They don't closely follow politics because they're out working for a living. However, it is REQUIRED reading for all running for elected office as a democrat. It is their BIBLE - figuratively and literally.
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No one cares about Saul Alinsky. I don't think I know anyone who even knows who he is/was.
You must not get out much.
"Rules for Radicals" by Alinski is almost as much of classic as "The Prince" by Machiavelli when it comes to dealing with the political system.
Thanks for this reference. I've looked him up and found it very interesting. His theories seems to explain a lot about how the left-wing so called "progressive" side of politics seems to function these days. He doesn't mention it but I think he may have invented 'verbal diarrhea" as one important tactic in modern politics. The more you talk, the more you are likely to unsettle and confuse your target audience into believing you know what you're talking about.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Saul_Alinsky
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SutureSelf, I disagree. Most people don't pay attention to politics until the conventions, so the conventions are EXACTLY the place where both FRIENDS and political allies should be talking about the different sides of the candidate. This is EXACTLY the venue where a candidate is formally introduced to the American electorate. So why isn't Trump politically astute enough to bring on his personal friends to show us the "real" side of Trump, to tell us that what we see on our screens is really just an act and is NOT who Trump really is? Don't you think we need to know that? So, what you are saying is that Trump's "friends" are telling us that he is a fake, after all, that the public side of him that we see walking through the fog is just a show. THAT's what we need in a leader. All show, no substance. Here was his chance to show American and the world who is REALLY is, and he didn't take it.
Rerun, if you want to see the personal emails that Hillary Clinton deleted (which was her prerogative, just as it is has been the prerogative of past Secretaries), then I want to see what Trump is hiding in his tax returns. Why is he protecting Putin and his oligarch friends? And it is not just Dems who are in an uproar. Our cybersecurity services are VERY interested in what is REALLY behind Trump's "quip".
Trump-Putin 2016. Has a certain ring to it...
No, MM, the majority of Americans don't start closely following the presidential election until after summer and during the debates. And speaking of debates...as with the democratic primary debates held on Saturday nights when no one was at home, Hillary is estactic to have the presidential ones go up against Sunday and Monday Night Football - two highly rated events that will syphon off viewers. Fewer people to see and hear how lousy of a president she would be for the country.
As for friends speaking at the conventions, only "friends" of Hillary were political operatives and other democratic party "friends". Since Trump is not a life-long politician like Hillary, he had business "friends," like Peter Thiel speak. I wonder why Hillary didn't get her good friends Juanita Broaddrick, Kathlee Willey, Paula Jones, Sandra Allen James or Vince Foster to put in a good word for her?
Be careful with the Trump-Putin accusations. There's the PAY TO PLAY between Hillary and the Russians with the uranium deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
And this PAY TO PLAY with Russia:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2016/08/hillary-clinton-russia-reset-report-shady-foundation-donations/
EDIT
BTW, the Clinton Foundation model of a 501(c)3 cgarity is so atypical, the most trusted and respected charity evaluator, CHARITY NAVIGATOR, can't come up with a rating system for them (after previously giving the Foundation a negative) they have removed the Clinton Foundation from its rating system. From CN's web site:
Why isn't this organization rated?
We had previously evaluated this organization, but have since determined that this charity's atypical business model can not be accurately captured in our current rating methodology. Our removal of The Clinton Foundation from our site is neither a condemnation nor an endorsement of this charity. We reserve the right to reinstate a rating for The Clinton Foundation as soon as we identify a rating methodology that appropriately captures its business model.
What does it mean that this organization isn’t rated?
It simply means that the organization doesn't meet our criteria. A lack of a rating does not indicate a positive or negative assessment by Charity Navigator.
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verbal diarrhea
The medical term is logorrhea.
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The Liberal Left think anyone and everything is fine so long as it fits their narrative and when it doesn't, it's back to the old "what difference does it make?" speech. Same can be said now of the new "American Socialist Party". Progressivism is code for Communism.
"When tolerance is a one way street, it will lead to cultural suicide"
-Allen B West
I really am with you on this point PrimeTimer. I'm not in the know about US politics but undoubtedly the proselytizing left-wingers has become the new fascism in our times, wherever we may be. I also am now following Milos Y after hearing a very articulate interview he gave recently that was loaded with such good rational common sense and a perfectly valid criticism of contemporary PC group-think.
Can either of you please tell me what any of this means??? And Athena, are you referring to the same bit of video from Milo Y that Prime Timer and I were discussing? I think perhaps you are. If so, could you respond to my thoughts I've posted previously? I'd be interested in your own thoughts.
One final thing. I was moved by the mother who spoke at the RNC whose son was killed in Benghazi. Who wouldn't be? She blames Hilary Clinton personally. No evidence supports her belief (the blame really should go on the shoulders of the Pentagon, but no one from the Pentagon is running for the presidency), but who would argue with a mother who feels such profound grief? Certainly not anyone is his/her right mind. But when Mr. and Mrs. Khan spoke at the DNC, Donald Trump starts his usual ranting on Twitter. I just do not understand how he gets away with so much. This behavior is so petty, so disgraceful and so cringeworthy. I just don't get the appeal, I really don't. I am truly, truly hoping that someone can tell me what they think Donald Trump is going to do for this country and how he is going to do it. I have asked this question several times, but no one seems to have any ideas. I WANT to be more comfortable with the idea of a Trump presidency because I think there is a real possibility that it could happen, so I am BEGGING you all to PLEASE at least TRY to convince me that he will do us proud.
And what is this about? Are Trump supporters themselves starting to become more like their candidate? This just is not right! It IS NOT RIGHT!
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/mother-of-service-member-booed-over-khan-question-at-pence-rally-226540
(Is there anything in my post that's childish or hateful toward anyone on IHD?)
Trump was not my first choice - I voted for Kasich. However, Trump won the nomination of the Republican Party and as a moderate conservative, I will vote for him - verbal gaffs and all. Here's why:
1) He will not appoint leftist, progressive activist judges to the Supreme Court like Hillary will.
2) I feel safer from terrorism with him as president than Hillary.
3) He will repeal Obamacare and work with Congress to come up with a better alternative.
4) He will work with Congress to reform the tax code.
5) Immigration reform and The Wall.
6) He will approve the Keystone pipeline.
7) He will leave the 2nd amendment alone.
8) Trump will cause less damage to the US way of life - individualism/self-reliance - in 4 years than Hillary.
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) He will repeal Obamacare and work with Congress to come up with a better alternative.
I am voting for Trump because I am a single issue voter, and Clinton is against my position on that single issue.
That being said
1. Trump will not repeal Obamacare - congress won't let it happen.
2. Something better? The problem with the current system is long term cost and politicians never concern themselves with any of that silly long term stuff.
3. Everyone who wants "something better" will not tolerate having the oxe gored. Positions like "better - sure, as long as i get to keep my celler dweller on my policy until age 26", or "sure, as long as the total cost to me goes down - I want that subsidy", "Sure - as long as I still get free care in the ER if I show up without insurance or a credit card", etc. It's like favoring "Tax reform" as long as "reform" means "make the else's pay more and me pay less."
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Dear MM,
Well, first, you have been rude to Rerun, who is a moderator. Uncalled for. Yes, the forum is for thick skins, but that means, " be prepared to hear things you don't like" It does not mean you are free to talk down to people, either the mods or the rest of the members.
As for the Donald's tax return, if he wants you to see it, you will, if not, then I doubt it . How would you know he cant release his taxes if he is being audited, by your own experience perhaps?? For politicians there is always a way to hide things. Have you seen Hillary's BTW??
Is Trump a successful business man? Wouldnt you think so with all the buildings and businesses he owns? Not to mention his own plane and of course, the chopper for short trips.
I dont know what kind of wages he pays or what kind of jobs he has made, but there are more than 25,000, so things cant be too bad, and in any case nowhere near enough to cover what our current president has lost.
So yes, feel free to carry on, I wouldnt dream of stopping this interesting post, even tho you think I said it is only you and K&S talking, I did not, I only said you were both rude.
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Moosemom said:
One final thing. I was moved by the mother who spoke at the RNC whose son was killed in Benghazi. Who wouldn't be? She blames Hilary Clinton personally. No evidence supports her belief (the blame really should go on the shoulders of the Pentagon, but no one from the Pentagon is running for the presidency),
If anyone is to blame for the Benghazi fiasco, it whould be the extreme budget cuts forced by the GOP. they aren't talking about that!
And now the mother of the slain ambassador at Benghazi is requesting that Trump stop using the name of her fallen son as political fodder.
Jean mentions that Trump must be successful because everything he has built. She doesn't mention the many small businesses that were stiffed for payment when Trump realized he couldn't afford to pay them. they were strong-armed into accepting pennies on the dollar. AND what about Trump's numerous bankruptcies? Good business man? I think not.
And when did business experience (or bad experience) qualify someone for the presidency?
Aleta
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The end result is, Donald Trump is a millionaire. Ya gotta know when to fold em, know when to hold em.
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AND what about Trump's numerous bankruptcies? Good business man? I think not.
His strategy of incorporating many separate businesses so the failure of one does not take capital out of the others is, from a business perspective, a smart risk mitigating move.
Boston cab companies have a similar tactic - many holding companies with 1-2 cabs, so someone injured in an accident cannot attach the assets of the entire empire, just a small section of it.
I can only hope Trump is a ruthless dealing with our so called "trading partners" as he is with his supplier and customers.
The end result is, Donald Trump is a millionaire. Ya gotta know when to fold em, know when to hold em.
Being a millionaire is no big deal now days, and certainly will not generate enough cash flow to provide a lifetime of support. There are many people who are technically "millionaires" but as a practical matter are just solidly middle class.
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Simon Dog, thank you for listing your reasons for voting for Trump. I agree with you that Obamacare won't be repealed, but I'd be happy to see it made better through bi-partisan legislation. I don't want to see anyone ever having to lose their homes or go into permanent debt because they happen to need medical care, so whichever way that can be accomplished would be fine with me. Do you have any ideas on what could/should be done so that people can be free of worry? I don't think Donald Trump is the man who has any ideas in this regard. He strikes me as being unimaginative when it comes to providing anything beneficial for anyone who might be outside of his business world.
SutureSelf, thank you, too, for enumerating your reasons for supporting Trump. While I might disagree with you, I do appreciate your coherent response. I disagree vehemently with "The Wall" because it will cost too much and is unworkable. How do you define "immigration reform"? Hillary Clinton also proposes "immigration reform". Everybody proposes "immigration reform", and Obama has been working toward that goal only to be thwarted by Congress. So, how do YOU define it? What do you think should be done? Are you perhaps talking about mass deportation?
What is it about Trump that makes you feel safer from terrorism? When you say "terrorism", I am assuming you mean, well, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the kind of attack that took place in Nice? What policies has Trump set out that make you feel safer? Is your support for him policy driven, or is it just a result of what you feel in your gut (which doesn't make your support invalid, of course).
What has Hillary Clinton said or done that makes you think she will not leave the second amendment "alone"? Gun laws are made by individual states. Most people, especially gun owners, what to see some kind of reasonable background checks so that we can all feel safer from the terrorism you fear. I fear domestic terrorism, too, just like you, and it worries me that there are so many guns around.
The Keystone Pipeline is dead. Individual states put the kibosh on that. I believe it was Nebraska that killed it. States' Rights and all of that. If Trump wants to step on a red state's toes, by all means, let him try.
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No, MM, the majority of Americans don't start closely following the presidential election until after summer and during the debates. And speaking of debates...as with the democratic primary debates held on Saturday nights when no one was at home, Hillary is estactic to have the presidential ones go up against Sunday and Monday Night Football - two highly rated events that will syphon off viewers. Fewer people to see and hear how lousy of a president she would be for the country.
The debate schedule was set before the NFL's was released in April. But I agree with you that the primary debate schedule was a farce and am glad that DWS was shamed into leaving her post. Trump won't participate in the debates, anyway.
As for friends speaking at the conventions, only "friends" of Hillary were political operatives and other democratic party "friends". Since Trump is not a life-long politician like Hillary, he had business "friends," like Peter Thiel speak. I wonder why Hillary didn't get her good friends Juanita Broaddrick, Kathlee Willey, Paula Jones, Sandra Allen James or Vince Foster to put in a good word for her?
That's not true. I can't remember her name, but her life long friend from Illinois both announced this state's delegate allocation AND gave a speech during the convention.
Be careful with the Trump-Putin accusations. There's the PAY TO PLAY between Hillary and the Russians with the uranium deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
I'm not sure you read the whole article. But at least this information is in the public domain for you to do with it as you will. And that's the point. We don't have any such information about Donald Trump. He refuses to release it.
[quote}
BTW, the Clinton Foundation model of a 501(c)3 cgarity is so atypical, the most trusted and respected charity evaluator, CHARITY NAVIGATOR, can't come up with a rating system for them (after previously giving the Foundation a negative) they have removed the Clinton Foundation from its rating system. From CN's web site:
Why isn't this organization rated?
We had previously evaluated this organization, but have since determined that this charity's atypical business model can not be accurately captured in our current rating methodology. Our removal of The Clinton Foundation from our site is neither a condemnation nor an endorsement of this charity. We reserve the right to reinstate a rating for The Clinton Foundation as soon as we identify a rating methodology that appropriately captures its business model.
What does it mean that this organization isn’t rated?
It simply means that the organization doesn't meet our criteria. A lack of a rating does not indicate a positive or negative assessment by Charity Navigator.
[/quote]
And, what's your point?
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That being said
1. Trump will not repeal Obamacare - congress won't let it happen.
2. Something better? The problem with the current system is long term cost and politicians never concern themselves with any of that silly long term stuff.
3. Everyone who wants "something better" will not tolerate having the oxe gored. Positions like "better - sure, as long as i get to keep my celler dweller on my policy until age 26", or "sure, as long as the total cost to me goes down - I want that subsidy", "Sure - as long as I still get free care in the ER if I show up without insurance or a credit card", etc. It's like favoring "Tax reform" as long as "reform" means "make the else's pay more and me pay less."
My Congressman, Tom Price, MD, HAS come up with a comprehensive plan that is better (in 2014) and it is a good place to start the dialog. I'd list it here but it's too long. If you care to read these are the links:
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf
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Dear MM,
Well, first, you have been rude to Rerun, who is a moderator. Uncalled for. Yes, the forum is for thick skins, but that means, " be prepared to hear things you don't like" It does not mean you are free to talk down to people, either the mods or the rest of the members.
As for the Donald's tax return, if he wants you to see it, you will, if not, then I doubt it . How would you know he cant release his taxes if he is being audited, by your own experience perhaps?? For politicians there is always a way to hide things. Have you seen Hillary's BTW??
Is Trump a successful business man? Wouldnt you think so with all the buildings and businesses he owns? Not to mention his own plane and of course, the chopper for short trips.
I dont know what kind of wages he pays or what kind of jobs he has made, but there are more than 25,000, so things cant be too bad, and in any case nowhere near enough to cover what our current president has lost.
So yes, feel free to carry on, I wouldnt dream of stopping this interesting post, even tho you think I said it is only you and K&S talking, I did not, I only said you were both rude.
Dear Jean,
I have looked through all 12 pages of this discussion, and I have found only three posts of mine where I directly quoted one of Rerun's posts, so before you accuse me of being rude, I want you to post the links of any posts of mine where I have been rude to her. You do not get to paint me in such a fashion without proof. I am baffled by your comments to me. Until you can show me where I've been rude to one of our admins, please do not say such things to me again. Your comments are extremely unfair and are totally without basis in reality.
Yes, Hillary has released her tax returns as had Bernie Sanders and all of the other GOP candidates.
It was the IRS who said that there is nothing prohibiting Trump from releasing his tax returns. I didn't just make that up, Jean. Geez.
I don't know if Trump really is a successful businessman despite his flashy bits and bobs. That's why we should see his tax returns. Double Geez.
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To Iolaire, these two are the reason this thread has stayed on so long, they use each other to feed off the hate!!
Jean?
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My Congressman, Tom Price, MD, HAS come up with a comprehensive plan that is better (in 2014) and it is a good place to start the dialog. I'd list it here but it's too long. If you care to read these are the links:
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf
Thank you for those links, SutureSelf. I have to admit that I've not read the whole thing. You've posted these links before, haven't you? They are familiar to me. Anyway, I don't think Obamacare is perfect, and I'd be happy to see it repealed and replaced by something that worked better. What ever happened to this piece of legislation? Did the House ever consider it or vote on it?
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SutureSelf, thank you, too, for enumerating your reasons for supporting Trump. While I might disagree with you, I do appreciate your coherent response. I disagree vehemently with "The Wall" because it will cost too much and is unworkable. How do you define "immigration reform"? Hillary Clinton also proposes "immigration reform". Everybody proposes "immigration reform", and Obama has been working toward that goal only to be thwarted by Congress. So, how do YOU define it? What do you think should be done? Are you perhaps talking about mass deportation?
What is it about Trump that makes you feel safer from terrorism? When you say "terrorism", I am assuming you mean, well, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the kind of attack that took place in Nice? What policies has Trump set out that make you feel safer? Is your support for him policy driven, or is it just a result of what you feel in your gut (which doesn't make your support invalid, of course).
What has Hillary Clinton said or done that makes you think she will not leave the second amendment "alone"? Gun laws are made by individual states. Most people, especially gun owners, what to see some kind of reasonable background checks so that we can all feel safer from the terrorism you fear. I fear domestic terrorism, too, just like you, and it worries me that there are so many guns around.
The Keystone Pipeline is dead. Individual states put the kibosh on that. I believe it was Nebraska that killed it. States' Rights and all of that. If Trump wants to step on a red state's toes, by all means, let him try.
Nebraska withstanding, the Pipeline is not dead: http://www.thenewsstar.com/story/opinion/editorials/2015/03/03/keystone-xl-dead-yet/24335819/
Sorry MM, the federal governmen, meaning the president, can have the DOJ promulgate regulations and restrictions which Hillary has come out in favor of.
"What is it about Trump that makes you feel safer from terrorism? When you say 'terrorism?'" I'm talking about domestic terrorism and international terrorism lead by Islamic jihadism, ISIS, Taliban, AlQaeda, etc. I feel Trump can do a better job than Hillary based off her weak, failed track record in Benghazi and Syria and the Russian reset for starters, internationally. Domestically, she's an Obama clone - blaming police depts. broadly for malfeasnace (police were exonerated by the DOJ in Fergusoan and Baltimore, btw). Bringing out the mothers of the dead thugs before honoring the families of police who lost their loved ones in the line of duty at the DNC Convention just to pander to Blacks - who just happen to vote democratic 90%+ of the time.
The Wall - from Trump's web site on how it will be paid for:
COMPELLING MEXICO TO PAY FOR THE WALL
Introduction: The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:
On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States.
On day 2 Mexico will immediately protest. They receive approximately $24 billion a year in remittances from Mexican nationals working in the United States. The majority of that amount comes from illegal aliens. It serves as de facto welfare for poor families in Mexico. There is no significant social safety net provided by the state in Mexico.
On day 3 tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds needed to the United States to pay for the wall, the Trump Administration will not promulgate the final rule, and the regulation will not go into effect.
Trade tariffs, or enforcement of existing trade rules: There is no doubt that Mexico is engaging in unfair subsidy behavior that has eliminated thousands of U.S. jobs, and which we are obligated to respond to; the impact of any tariffs on the price imports will be more than offset by the economic and income gains of increased production in the United States, in addition to revenue from any tariffs themselves. Mexico needs access to our markets much more than the reverse, so we have all the leverage and will win the negotiation. By definition, if you have a large trade deficit with a nation, it means they are selling far more to you than the reverse - thus they, not you, stand to lose from enforcing trade rules through tariffs (as has been done to save many U.S. industries in the past).
Cancelling visas: Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Mexico is totally dependent on the United States as a release valve for its own poverty - our approvals of hundreds of thousands of visas to their nationals every year is one of our greatest leverage points. We also have leverage through business and tourist visas for important people in the Mexican economy. Keep in mind, the United States has already taken in 4X more migrants than any other country on planet earth, producing lower wages and higher unemployment for our own citizens and recent migrants.
Visa fees: Even a small increase in visa fees would pay for the wall. This includes fees on border crossing cards, of which more than 1 million are issued a year. The border-crossing card is also one of the greatest sources of illegal immigration into the United States, via overstays. Mexico is also the single largest recipient of U.S. green cards, which confer a path to U.S. citizenship. Again, we have the leverage so Mexico will back down.
Conclusion: Mexico has taken advantage of us in another way as well: gangs, drug traffickers and cartels have freely exploited our open borders and committed vast numbers of crimes inside the United States. The United States has borne the extraordinary daily cost of this criminal activity, including the cost of trials and incarcerations. Not to mention the even greater human cost. We have the moral high ground here, and all the leverage. It is time we use it in order to Make America Great Again.
From his web site on immigration reform:
IMMIGRATION REFORM THAT WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
The three core principles of Donald J. Trump's immigration plan
When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.
Make Mexico Pay For The Wall
For many years, Mexico’s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphlets on how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.
The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old woman’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.
In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.
Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).
In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.
The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.
Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.
Defend The Laws And Constitution Of The United States
America will only be great as long as America remains a nation of laws that lives according to the Constitution. No one is above the law. The following steps will return to the American people the safety of their laws, which politicians have stolen from them:
Triple the number of ICE officers. As the President of the ICE Officers’ Council explained in Congressional testimony: “Only approximately 5,000 officers and agents within ICE perform the lion’s share of ICE’s immigration mission…Compare that to the Los Angeles Police Department at approximately 10,000 officers. Approximately 5,000 officers in ICE cover 50 states, Puerto Rico and Guam, and are attempting to enforce immigration law against 11 million illegal aliens already in the interior of the United States. Since 9-11, the U.S. Border Patrol has tripled in size, while ICE’s immigration enforcement arm, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), has remained at relatively the same size.” This will be funded by accepting the recommendation of the Inspector General for Tax Administration and eliminating tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.
Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans.
Mandatory return of all criminal aliens. The Obama Administration has released 76,000 aliens from its custody with criminal convictions since 2013 alone. All criminal aliens must be returned to their home countries, a process which can be aided by canceling any visas to foreign countries which will not accept their own criminals, and making it a separate and additional crime to commit an offense while here illegally.
Detention—not catch-and-release. Illegal aliens apprehended crossing the border must be detained until they are sent home, no more catch-and-release.
Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.
Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence. This is a threat to national security. Individuals who refuse to leave at the time their visa expires should be subject to criminal penalties; this will also help give local jurisdictions the power to hold visa overstays until federal authorities arrive. Completion of a visa tracking system – required by law but blocked by lobbyists – will be necessary as well.
Cooperate with local gang task forces. ICE officers should accompany local police departments conducting raids of violent street gangs like MS-13 and the 18th street gang, which have terrorized the country. All illegal aliens in gangs should be apprehended and deported. Again, quoting Chris Crane: “ICE Officers and Agents are forced to apply the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Directive, not to children in schools, but to adult inmates in jails. If an illegal-alien inmate simply claims eligibility, ICE is forced to release the alien back into the community. This includes serious criminals who have committed felonies, who have assaulted officers, and who prey on children…ICE officers should be required to place detainers on every illegal alien they encounter in jails and prisons, since these aliens not only violated immigration laws, but then went on to engage in activities that led to their arrest by police; ICE officers should be required to issue Notices to Appear to all illegal aliens with criminal convictions, DUI convictions, or a gang affiliation; ICE should be working with any state or local drug or gang task force that asks for such assistance.”
End birthright citizenship. This remains the biggest magnet for illegal immigration. By a 2:1 margin, voters say it’s the wrong policy, including Harry Reid who said “no sane country” would give automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants.
Put American Workers First
Decades of disastrous trade deals and immigration policies have destroyed our middle class. Today, nearly 40% of black teenagers are unemployed. Nearly 30% of Hispanic teenagers are unemployed. For black Americans without high school diplomas, the bottom has fallen out: more than 70% were employed in 1960, compared to less than 40% in 2000. Across the economy, the percentage of adults in the labor force has collapsed to a level not experienced in generations. As CBS news wrote in a piece entitled “America’s incredible shrinking middle class”: “If the middle-class is the economic backbone of America, then the country is developing osteoporosis.”
The influx of foreign workers holds down salaries, keeps unemployment high, and makes it difficult for poor and working class Americans – including immigrants themselves and their children – to earn a middle class wage. Nearly half of all immigrants and their US-born children currently live in or near poverty, including more than 60 percent of Hispanic immigrants. Every year, we voluntarily admit another 2 million new immigrants, guest workers, refugees, and dependents, growing our existing all-time historic record population of 42 million immigrants. We need to control the admission of new low-earning workers in order to: help wages grow, get teenagers back to work, aid minorities’ rise into the middle class, help schools and communities falling behind, and to ensure our immigrant members of the national family become part of the American dream.
Additionally, we need to stop giving legal immigrant visas to people bent on causing us harm. From the 9/11 hijackers, to the Boston Bombers, and many others, our immigration system is being used to attack us. The President of the immigration caseworkers union declared in a statement on ISIS: “We've become the visa clearinghouse for the world.”
Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
End welfare abuse. Applicants for entry to the United States should be required to certify that they can pay for their own housing, healthcare and other needs before coming to the U.S.
Jobs program for inner city youth. The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program.
Refugee program for American children. Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses. Use the monies saved on expensive refugee programs to help place American children without parents in safer homes and communities, and to improve community safety in high crime neighborhoods in the United States.
Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.
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Deleted because it was a double posting. See comments below. Thanks!
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The debate schedule was set before the NFL's was released in April. But I agree with you that the primary debate schedule was a farce and am glad that DWS was shamed into leaving her post. Trump won't participate in the debates, anyway. - Red herring MM. Maybe the schedule of which teams would be playing hadn't been set, but Sunday and Monday Night Football have been going on for YEARS. However, there is still time to modify to Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Put your $$ where your mouth is MM. I'll bet you $20 Trump will debate. He loves large viewing audiences and will use these opps to show how horrible Clinton will be as president.
As for friends speaking at the conventions, only "friends" of Hillary were political operatives and other democratic party "friends". Since Trump is not a life-long politician like Hillary, he had business "friends," like Peter Thiel speak. I wonder why Hillary didn't get her good friends Juanita Broaddrick, Kathlee Willey, Paula Jones, Sandra Allen James or Vince Foster to put in a good word for her?
That's not true. I can't remember her name, but her life long friend from Illinois both announced this state's delegate allocation AND gave a speech during the convention.
Be careful with the Trump-Putin accusations. There's the PAY TO PLAY between Hillary and the Russians with the uranium deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
I'm not sure you read the whole article. But at least this information is in the public domain for you to do with it as you will. And that's the point. We don't have any such information about Donald Trump. He refuses to release it. - Nothing there, MM. But keep up your lefty distraction talking point.
[quote}
BTW, the Clinton Foundation model of a 501(c)3 cgarity is so atypical, the most trusted and respected charity evaluator, CHARITY NAVIGATOR, can't come up with a rating system for them (after previously giving the Foundation a negative) they have removed the Clinton Foundation from its rating system. From CN's web site:
Why isn't this organization rated?
We had previously evaluated this organization, but have since determined that this charity's atypical business model can not be accurately captured in our current rating methodology. Our removal of The Clinton Foundation from our site is neither a condemnation nor an endorsement of this charity. We reserve the right to reinstate a rating for The Clinton Foundation as soon as we identify a rating methodology that appropriately captures its business model.
What does it mean that this organization isn’t rated?
It simply means that the organization doesn't meet our criteria. A lack of a rating does not indicate a positive or negative assessment by Charity Navigator.
And, what's your point? - The Clintons are sleezy and using their "foundation" as a slush fund. That's my point, MM.
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Thanks for that, SutureSelf. I have tried but probably have not succeeded in reading everything. I'm running a bit out of time here, but I wanted to put down a few thoughts while they're in my head.
Re Keystone XL, if Trump becomes president and wants approval for it, then he'll have to fight for it, and that fight will put him against several states who are going to resent the federal government ignoring their protests. I'm not sure how this will play into the GOP's theme of "less government". It will be an interesting political fight. Let him have at it.
As for having Mexico pay for the wall, this dismisses the fact that only a bit less than half of illegals come from that country. So, are we going to make them pay for only half of the wall? As for the rest of it, I guess the nation will decide, and then if he wins, I guess then it will be broadly up to Congress. We'll just have to see what happens.
As for Obama/Clinton favoring blacks over the police, I suspect that there is nothing that anyone could say to you nor is there any evidence that could be presented to you that would change your perception, so I won't try.
As for Trumps immigration reform plan, again, thanks for that, too. I was unaware that we had no borders and are therefore not a nation. Our borders are more secure than they ever have been, and as you know, there has been a net zero rate of illegal immigration from Mexico. I suspect that the crux of the problem is not so much one of "how to keep them out", rather, "what to do with the ones who are here".
Of course, a Constitutional Amendment will need to be passed to end the right of those born here to have automatic citizenship. I'd certainly have a good think about that.
I'll try to read more later. Again, thanks for the info.
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Oops, sorry, SutureSelf, I missed your other post.
The debates are scheduled by the Commission on Presidential Debates.
http://debates.org/
If you think Hillary Clinton somehow influenced them, I'd like to see the proof, please. Otherwise you are accusing this group of something unsavory, and that's not really fair. With DVRs, people don't really have to choose only one or the other thing to watch. People can watch one on TV and stream the other. And you are right about Trump, actually. I'd be surprised if he missed this chance to be on TV (anything for attention), but then again, he'd grab a LOT of attention if he DIDN'T participate, so I don't know WHAT he will do!!
How do you know there's nothing in Trumps tax returns? Have you seen them? Why can't he just release them?
OK, so you think the Clintons are sleazy. Fine. Don't vote for Hillary Clinton, then. But that doesn't make Trump a truly viable candidate. He's just sort of gone off the rails, what with his manic tweeting about the Khan family. At first Mr. Trump was admittedly audaciously entertaining and weirdly funny. But now he is just emotionally stunted. He is exactly the sort of man I cannot stand....thin-skinned, constantly aggrieved, whingeing and making everything and anything all about him. If he feels you have insulted him, God love you.
I still want to know if it is true that he is in debt to the Russians.
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The Conn Family thing is getting wore out on the main stream media but Sean Smith's mom testifying that Hillary lied right to her face gets none.
I can't even link it. That is what is wrong with America. Go Trump!
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Donald Trump's "illustrious" business history laid out in black and white. His most astute business decision was to be born to a very rich and well-connected father. All the rest went downhill from there. Donald Trump, to borrow his words, is a LOSER.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html
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I have to say this image is one of the funniest Trump memes yet. I'm not usually into memes but once and a while they are very funny...
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ILM_SHARE/IMG_4801.JPG)
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The Conn Family thing is getting wore out on the main stream media but Sean Smith's mom testifying that Hillary lied right to her face gets none.
I can't even link it. That is what is wrong with America. Go Trump!
First of all, it's "Khan".
Really? You really don't see the link? The fact that Hillary Clinton didn't take to twitter to argue and disparage Sean Smith's mom but Trump is still complaining about the Khans doesn't say anything to you about his emotional and psychological frailty? Maybe that you, and probably some others, don't see the link IS what is wrong with America. Donald Trump's reactions ARE the story!
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Donald Trump's reactions ARE the story!
Even more than that, Donald Trump's supporters ARE the story. Long after Trumplethinskin's candidacy has settled into the bottom of the dumpster where he belongs, Americans will be stuck with the toothpaste that can no longer go back in the tube. THEY are what is wrong with America.
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Trump managed to increase the wealth he inherited, but did so by figuring out how to screw everyone he did business with legally. Buy a Trump Condo? Well, if it goes bankrupt you may find out it was just licensing the name and Trump has no liability. Invest in a Trump business? Better check it out carefully since it is backed only by that business unit, not Trump. Sell a service to Trump - get paid in advance, or you will hear "We will offer you xx% of your quoted price, or you can try to get the courts to make us pay". And then, there is always Trump U.
I am a Trump supporter (only to the extent that he is the only option to Clinton), and I am certainly not "What is wrong with America". I pay my taxes; never collected welfare (I consider ESRD benefits an insurance policy I paid for, not welfare); have no criminal record; keep about a dozen assault rifle off the street (they are in my safe); support LGBT rights; reproductive freedom and the rights of furries. I also oppose the pseudo-theocracy that the Republicans sometimes try to jam down our throats (we still can't buy alcohol in MA during traditional worship hours). I also put my kid through her BS without debt (she is gainfully employed), and she just finished her masters at Harvard.
So, although I could take the comment that I am what is wrong with this country as an insult, I prefer to consider it an error made by someone who does not really know me.
I also take very good care of two dogs.
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Apologies. I wrote a post based on an incorrect assumption that a comment was directed to me, so I have deleted it. I am sorry for my error!
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I hate it when kids scream during church or a town meeting. It is soooo distracting you can't hear the message.
But, I'm glad they are born.... I'm glad they are here and have rights. But, who likes to sit by a baby on an air plane for 4 hours? How about a movie Theater. You are thinking "Really, get a babysitter". But I love babies and little kids. There are just places I would leave my bundle (Grandma) as to not disturb where I'm going as an adult.
They jump on Trump if he says anything. I get his sense of humor. Love it! Ya, can you get the baby out of here? LOL I get it.
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I hate it when kids scream during church or a town meeting. It is soooo distracting you can't hear the message.
But, I'm glad they are born.... I'm glad they are here and have rights. But, who likes to sit by a baby on an air plane for 4 hours? How about a movie Theater. You are thinking "Really, get a babysitter". But I love babies and little kids. There are just places I would leave my bundle (Grandma) as to not disturb where I'm going as an adult.
They jump on Trump if he says anything. I get his since of humor. Love it! Ya, can you get the baby out of here? LOL I get it.
That's why they say Trump is living in their heads rent-free. lol
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... According to the latest polls (conducted by Real Clear Politics, results from 13th October 2016): Hillary Clinton 48% and Donald Trump 41,8%...
... The election on 8th November should be most interesting and I do hope and keep my fingers crossed that the result is best for the people in America.
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It's now the 14th of November.
The President Elect has been chosen.
No one posted the result??????????????????
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Anyway ya'll
The President Elect is Donald Trump.
Thank God
Perhaps there will be enough money to pay for government programs to cover dialysis for a few more years.
In fact I would bet President Elect Trump would be willing to invest in "the kidney project" (http://"https://pharm.ucsf.edu/kidney")
A project in making a implantable dialysis machine with replaceable components that include some real kidney cells.
The project is due completion in the year 2020.
They have a plan to expedite the project if they get enough money.
The FDA has expedited the project
The project wants to keep the quality high so they do not want to sell there hard work to the market place.
The project started in 2006 and is still not complete due to lack of funding.
The original crew want to see the project to completion and as such will not be bought out.
They are being funded privately by donors like you and me and President Elect Trump.........
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Donald Trump: Psychiatry professors say 'dangerous' US President must be removed from post for public safety
Katie Forster The Independent 9 March 2017:
Donald Trump is “dangerous” and drastic steps must be taken to protect the public from him, two leading psychiatrists have warned.
The President’s erratic behaviour, including “repeated failure to distinguish between reality and fantasy” and “paranoid claims of conspiracy”, cast doubt over his ability to react rationally in a crisis, they said.
In a letter to the New York Times, Judith Herman, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and Robert Lifton, a lecturer in psychiatry at Columbia University, said they were not attempting to diagnose Mr Trump.
“We are in no way offering a psychiatric diagnosis, which would be unwise to attempt from a distance," they wrote.
"Nevertheless, as psychiatrists we feel obliged to express our alarm. We fear that when faced with a crisis, President Trump will lack the judgment to respond rationally.
“The military powers entrusted to him endanger us all. We urge our elected representatives to take the necessary steps to protect us from this dangerous president.”
Last month, 35 mental health professionals wrote to the newspaper warning the “grave emotional instability” indicated by Mr Trump’s behaviour made him incapable of serving safely as President.
This drew some criticism as it is usually frowned upon among psychiatrists to give a professional opinion of the mental state of someone they have not examined in person, as dictated by a passage in the American Psychiatric Association’s code of ethics known as the Goldwater rule.
Professor Herman and Dr Lifton gave the President’s unsubstantiated claim that Barack Obama ordered a wiretap of his phones during the presidential campaign as an example of his irrational behaviour.
“Even within the space of a few weeks, the demands of the presidency have magnified his erratic patterns of behaviour,” they wrote.
“We are struck by his repeated failure to distinguish between reality and fantasy, and his outbursts of rage when his fantasies are contradicted. Without any demonstrable evidence, he repeatedly resorts to paranoid claims of conspiracy.
“Most recently, in response to suggestions of contact between his campaign and agents of the Russian government, he has issued tirades against the press as an “enemy of the people” and accusations without proof that his predecessor, former President Barack Obama, engaged in partisan surveillance against him.”
Harvard Law School professor Noah Feldman said if Mr Trump’s allegations regarding Mr Obama were proved false, a major scandal would arise that could lead to his impeachment.
The President recently posted a series of early-morning tweets in which he accused his predecessor of ordered the wiretap.
How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2017
“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!” he wrote.
“Is it legal for a sitting President to be “wire tapping” a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!”
“How low has President Obama gone to tapp [sic] my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!”
Mr Trump did not provide any evidence for his claims and his spokespeople have consistently refused to do so.
Professor Feldman said that, if the allegations are true, the scandal would be of “Watergate-level proportions” – but that a similar sized controversy would also result if they are proved to be unsubstantiated.
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Really? It is NOT like Hillary will automatically take over. Dreamers
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Really? It is NOT like Hillary will automatically take over. Dreamers
LOL! No one thinks that Hillary Clinton will "automatically take over". But that doesn't change the fact that something is wrong with Trump. He believes in nothing and he cares about nothing other than making money. He is a rotten human being.
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Just for jollies, here's the link to newly released photos comparing the crowd attending Obama's inauguration with Trump's. It took a FOIA request to get these pictures released from Trump's suppression.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/politics/national-park-service-inauguration-crowd-size-photos/
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What they were saying is it was the most Viewed which is true. Heck, it was a cold day in January. Why go when you can watch it on your computer at work. Which you should not be doing.
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What they were saying is it was the most Viewed which is true. Heck, it was a cold day in January. Why go when you can watch it on your computer at work. Which you should not be doing.
Great spin! Spicey has nothing on you!
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The White House has had to issue a formal apology and a promise not to say it again after Trump accused Britain's GCHQ of colluding with President Obama to "wiretappppppppppp" Trump Tower.
In other news, the Leader of the Free World, Angela Merkel, will be meeting Trump today.
Mick Mulvaney, Trump's budget director, tried to spin the drastic cuts to federal funding for programs like "Meals on Wheels" as "compassionate" because feeding elderly people "does not work".
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politics/mick-mulvaney-budget-defense-memorable-lines/index.html
Notice that there will be drastic cuts to NIH funding, so if you're hoping for new technology and research into ESRD/dialysis, you're well outta luck. It's not compassionate to ask a steelworker in Ohio to help fund your treatment now or your possibly improved treatment in the future.
But there WILL be massively increased spending on defense because it is much more compassionate AND effective to be able to kill more people overseas yet not so compassionate nor effective to be able to FEED more Americans.
Doesn't it just make ya feel great to be an American?