I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Epoman on August 10, 2005, 06:10:47 PM
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Do you? I do, and I will never go back (as long as I can). When you stick yourself you can feel everything. I was scared at first but the first time I did it I was hooked. I have never infiltrated myself. It's so easy to do and I can't believe if your able to do it yourself why you don't.
If your able try it sometime, you won't hurt nothing, the tech or nurse is right there in case you decide to stop half way or you get too scared.
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I can't even tweeze my eyebrows, never mind stick needles in my arm!
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I can't even tweeze my eyebrows, never mind stick needles in my arm!
;D ;)
It's really not hard AT ALL! many people are shocked when I tell them I stick my own needles but it's actually easy and one thing is you control everything, if it hurts you stop and re-adjust.
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sticking your own needles is real easy. you start by watching the PCT's then mock every thing they do except without the huge fingernails and gum smacking.
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:o I have been doing my own needles for 2 years now. Where I do dialysis younger patients are encouraged to do their own needles. I really don't enjoy it at all (but who does), but I sing to myself as I am doing it. Over here in Canberra, most of us use local. Some people don't, and I must say they are braver than me. I have only ever "bombed" one time. As you said Epoman, give it a go and if you stop halfway there are always staff around to help you. :) Liz
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:o I have been doing my own needles for 2 years now. Where I do dialysis younger patients are encouraged to do their own needles. I really don't enjoy it at all (but who does), but I sing to myself as I am doing it. Over here in Canberra, most of us use local. Some people don't, and I must say they are braver than me. I have only ever "bombed" one time. As you said Epoman, give it a go and if you stop halfway there are always staff around to help you. :) Liz
That's right at least give it a try. There are always someone there to help if you screw up or get scared halfway. I will never let anyone stick me, and I don't use local I like to get the feelings in the skin dead.
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Im a self jabber.I got trained at the royal melb hospital on home training, now doing nocturnal.The technicians said you can feel when it goes in and all that.Don't feel nothing once its in.What I do is go for the angle.Its pretty funny I follow the angle to a freckle and know that i've got my arterial in and the venous i dont feel go in at all its more pot luck really.Been needling myself for over a year and only had to recirculate twice for a badly positioned needle and never "blown".Also I'm a toughie don't use local, its just an initial millisecond of pain, so i just jab away thinking the sooner i needle the sooner that timer starts clicking away !!!!!!
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Are you guys saying that you need more than ONE stick per session? :( I am hearing 'arterial' and 'venous' and I am already having the shivers! TWO needle sticks per session?
:'(
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Are you guys saying that you need more than ONE stick per session? :( I am hearing 'arterial' and 'venous' and I am already having the shivers! TWO needle sticks per session?
:'(
Yes, sorry to say you will need 2 needle sticks one for the blood leaving and one for the returning blood. Now I do know there used to be a single stick needle that was used in the past but the level of cleaning was not as efficient so that never really caught on with the industry. So you will need 2 sticks per treatment and if you go 3 days a week that will be 6 sticks a week. :(
Lets see for me I have been stuck as of today 3,400+ times in my right arm. :o
Yes it does hurt and it will hurt alot, however your arm will get used to it and the skin will deaden over time but even I still feel a little pain once in a while.
You see this is what this site is all about getting the truth, the straight answer. No sugar coating the answer.
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I doubt I could muster the guys to stick my own needles. I'm a big baby when it comes to needles. At first they had me on smaller needles and now I graduated to the larger needles. The VA is suppose to get me some cream to help dull the "pinch".
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I think I'll just stay with the Hickman Catheter. I don't think I can do the needles. Well, I'll probably pass out before they get to me with the needles... which will work. :-\
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Yes, Rerun, let's! WE ARE STAYING WITH THE HICKMAN!!! EVERYBODY NOW - GIMME A H! H! GIMME A I! I! GIMME A C! C! GIMME A K! K! GIMME A M! M! GIMME A A! A! GIMME A N! N!
WHADDYA GET! HICKMAN! HICKMAN!! RAH! RAH! RAH!
NO STICKY NEEDLES! NO! NO! NO! WE WANT HICKMAN! WE WANT HICKMAN!
I tried anyway........
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SCORE!!! No Needles! ;D ;D
Bajannne2000 - Is that picture where you live? It is beautiful. :o
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Actually, it is the view I am seeing now as I look out the sliding doors of my verandah/gallery/patio. And coincidentally, a cruise ship is there right now (there are 2 in the picture)
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Nice! I live next to a 6 lane freeway and the houses which are just normal 2 to 3 bedroom homes are going for $500,000. It is nuts. I wish I was on one of those cruise ships. That could be a new post.
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Have a look at pictures I have taken in my region - British Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands, Barbados. Just click on this link - http://community.webshots.com/user/bajanne2000
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Those are gorgeous~ Thanks for sharing! I would send you pictures, but I don't have a digital camera.... yet. ;D
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Those are gorgeous~ Thanks for sharing! I would send you pictures, but I don't have a digital camera.... yet. ;D
Come on you got to get one. You can pick up one cheap nowadays. Keep an eye for a digital camera on www.slickdeals.net (http://www.slickdeals.net)
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Hi Epoman Yes I cannulate myself.I told myself I couldn't do it for 4 years.I'm now at home doing my own treatments on my time.After the initial stabbing it's all gravy now.Hope other people have the same experience.
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BUMP to the TOP
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Now that I am accustomed to being stuck twice per session, I must say that it would be impossible for me to stick my own needles. My graft is in my upper arm and it would not be an easy thing to accomplish. Also, the lidocaine has my skin in the area really tough and I don't look forward to pushing and pushing. I leave that to the nurses.
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MY fistula is in my upper arm too Baj'. I have to use the stainless steel clamps
to hold the cannula ends with the hand on that arm, while I do everything
else with the other. I must admit I was a bit skeptical that I would ever be
a 'self-sticker'. But hey! I do it O.K. now, sorta... :)
Btw check this shot out for familiarity Baj'! ;D
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I do when certain techs are putting me on. The good ones I let do it. I too have not been infiltrated since I began this method some years ago. Good Luck. Rip1
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You big bunch of babies!!! :D
I was always too scared to do it too, but of course if you keep telling youself you cant do it, then of course you aren't going to do it. You need to make yourself do it, and BELIEVE ME when you do it yourself it is 1000 times better. You are in total control of the local, and the cannula's, and it hurts alot less as you know your threshold. I have been doing it myself for about a year with the buttonhole system, and once your sites develop, you barely even feel a mozzie bite. I very very highly reccomend you at least give it a go. It is scary at first, but once you get the hang of it, its easy. Plus, doing it yourself, there is less risk of trauma to your fistula, as you can go in a the same angle each time. Where as getting someone different every time to cannulate, is causing more damage/scarring to the tissue.
I have an upperarm fistula, and its not hard to get the cannula's in at all. Over time I have devised my own system which works very well for me. I do absolutely everything myself. Even taking them out is a breeze.
Give it a go!!
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Forgot to ask, Bear, what do you mean by using the clamps to hold the cannula's? Do you use them to pull them out or? My fistula is upper arm too but I don't use anything to hold them.
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Well, when I first started cannulating myself at the unit, Amber, they had the longer cannulas, that would reach my hand.
But when that box ran out* they didn't get any more, despite ordering them....also ordered for me at home, but never came.
*I had the last of that box at home, so used them until they ran out. THen on a visit in one day Ann said, "Have a look at this bloke" and
the guy in the private room was doing his with the clamps. Basically, we use the clamp to extend our fistula arm hand. Clamp
on the little flange behind the screw-off cap; use the free hand to turn the clamp around backwards in the fistula hand.
Same coming off. Hold them with the clamp, while you take off the tapes, then pull them out when you have the swab
& alco-wipe ready. How come you can reach upper arm cannulas _without_ a clamp - you got Go-go Gadget arms??? ;D
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... a mozzie bite. ...
I'm sorry, I have to know, what's a "Mozzie"?
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Ooooh, I know what a mozzie is..... It's an English Mosquito.... Lol.. ;D ;)
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if you can ,do own needles. At least you are in control.The first one is a little nerve wrecking but after that not too bad. Been doing my own for over three years
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PMSL dont you have mozzies where you are Black? :D They are pesky little buzzing things that bite you and suck your blood :o
Bear...I am guessing I can reach the cannulas because I have shorter arms than you? I had sooooo much trouble trying to get the long ones, would order them, but always got the wrong ones. After so much hassle the company now realise they dont actually have long ones, so now I get them from home training. I only use long ones for the venous, and the short ones for the arterial unless I run out. My arterial is right at the crease of my elbow, and the venous is half way up, so its not that far away from my hand. Plus I can bend my wrists quite a bit, which I do to hold the arterial. I have double jointed wrists, but I dont think that makes any difference lol
To pull out my arterial I just use my other hand to put it between my thumb and pointer finger from behind, and pull it out like that. Bit hard to explain. Another thing you can do is attach a syringe to the end for extra length. I was doing this in training until I discovered I didnt need to.
The metal clamps do come in handy when you cant unscrew the lines when you are coming off. But lately it hasnt worked and its snapped the little bit inside the cap. I have a tendancy to do them up way too tight!
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I wish I could stick myself but I'm a very big baby when it comes to those needles. I put EMLA cream on my arm too. I definitly see the reason behind self sticking. For example on Friday not a single person was there that had stuck me in the past so I had new people digging around and probing trying to get the stick right. Very bothersome.
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I wish I could stick myself but I'm a very big baby when it comes to those needles. I put EMLA cream on my arm too. I definitly see the reason behind self sticking. For example on Friday not a single person was there that had stuck me in the past so I had new people digging around and probing trying to get the stick right. Very bothersome.
When you stick yourself, YOU control the pain. If you want your fistula to last decades and if you want to be pain free, I recommend you get over your fear, and learn to stick yourself.
- Epoman
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I NEVER thought i would even think about sticking myself but now that I am going to do home hemo soon I will just have to , not looking forward to it but i won't have a choice , i have already asked about using the cream but it seems that they don't encourage the use of it and the thought of a local no way they hurt so I'm better off with one less needle i think. I Will keep you posted when i final get to Sydney to start.
Cheers Charee
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I'm proud of the fact that I'm sticking myself these days... I knew I could do it, but I dreaded it because I have pain in a branch vein whenever I'm stuck and I don't use lidocaine. Today I was able to get the blunts in, so I'm ready for my "master's" in home hemo when I return for retraining in two weeks. :clap;
I'm so into sticking these days, that I have to contain myself from grabbing a bunch of needles and chasing people around for practice! If only I could be a tech and not have to do anything but stick people, hehehe.
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I needle myself...it hurts a bit, but, hey...I am a Jedi, so i can take it... ;D
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I never thought of sticking myself until I started home hemo. I can really say that it is so much better. As many have already stated in this thread, you are in control and yes there is going to be some initial pain but that will subside in a few months or sooner. The one thing I remember from being an in-center patient was that I was always so unhappy when my tech was off and I usually got the newest trainee. For all of you doing in-center remember everyone sticks a bit diffrently and all it takes is one screw up to ruin your fistula or graft. I would suggest everyone that possible can, learn how to stick themselves. I believe you will have a much healthier access site in the long run. I was just hospitalized recently for a nephrectomy and I insisted I stick my self and they had to have a meeting about it. Finally they let me do it. I felt much more comfortable espically since I have established Buttonholes.
Mike
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I have needled myself for almost 13 years. It was very scary the first time. I was sweating, forgot to breath, but, after the first time it wasn't so bad. I have always used Emla cream. Why not. We go through so much anyway why have unnecessary pain. You have more control over where it's going and get the most out of your fistula. I have only blown my arm once doing it myself. When the nurses were doing it, they were blowing it on a weekly basis. Even this past summer I broke my elbow and my collar bone on my fistula arm, I have am upper arm fistula, it was so swollen you couldn't see my fistula. But I still needled it ok. Had that been a nurse I don't know where those needle's would have ended up! I believe it's better all the way around doing it yourself.
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I learned to self cannulate so I could travel without too much concern. It was also an independence thing.
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Brenda, how awkward is it to stick yourself with an upper arm fistula? I want to learn to do my own, but when I see the angle they put the needles in in mine, I'm not sure I could crank my wrist far enough around. Do you have someone hold your arm?
I figure if I can work out the angle, I can figure out how. Given the number of drug addicts in the world who find their own veins while stoned out of their minds, surely I can learn how to do this while stone cold sober and surrounded by hovering nurses! ;D
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Mine is an upper arm fistula...it's a bit harder to cannulate, but once you learn is a piece of...needle cake!
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Jbeany, I haven't ever really found it a problem. I use a tourniquet and a clamp to hold my arm. Once the needle is in you just tape them up. I don't use my fistula hand at all. It takes a little practice and a little preparation but you learn different tricks as you go along. When I pull my needles I leave them hooked to the lines to give me length. I pull them with my fistula arm and apply the gauze with the other. I do everything myself. You would like it. If your really thinking about it, just do it. You'll do fine.
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I use a tourniquet and a clamp to hold my arm. Once the needle is in you just tape them up.
Same here.
You can do it jbeany.
:beer1;
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A tourniquet and a clamp? For what, exactly? Or is that just something for a fistula? I've got a graft, and it shows up under the skin all the time - I don't think I'd need a tourniquet to see it - none of the nurses or techs do. They just scrub and poke at it.
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I don't know anything about a graft or how that even works!? Then what do you mean by the nurses holding your arm?
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A graft is similar to a fistula, as in it is a looped connection of vein and artery under the skin. Only my veins are too small and pitiful to make the loop by themselves, so the surgeon connects them with a nylon tube. The tube is big enough to be seen in a faint "C" curving across my upper arm. When the nurses stick me, they usually hold the needle in one hand and press and hold with the other hand so the tube is perfectly visible and, I suppose, so it doesn't move. Plus, one needle is angled up into one end of the graft, and the other is angled down. The way the nurses bounce around trying hold the needle at the right angle, I'm not sure how I'm going to manage one handed.
No one at my center sticks themselves, so I don't really have anyone to ask for a demo! I've seen the videos of Bill, but his is a lower arm fistula, so it doesn't really address all my questions. . .
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I NEVER thought i would even think about sticking myself but now that I am going to do home hemo soon I will just have to , not looking forward to it but i won't have a choice , i have already asked about using the cream but it seems that they don't encourage the use of it and the thought of a local no way they hurt so I'm better off with one less needle i think. I Will keep you posted when i final get to Sydney to start.
Cheers Charee
You only use the smallest amount of local, and most of the time I dont find it painful at all. It hurts less than putting a sharp needle in without local. Once your buttonholes develop you dont need it.
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I find my hand shaking so much from all the immunosuppressives I've taken before. I'm used to injecting epogen but 15 gage needles?
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Jbeany:
You have a graft, so you don't need a tourniquet. We (the ones who have fistulas) have to "bring out" the fistula to cannulate. I never used "freeze" and I started with a smaller needle and went up a bit (every two weeks) at the time...ask as many questions as you want, if I know the answers I'll be more than happy to help....
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Jbeany, If there is no one in your unit that does it now, I think you would be surprised at how many would maybe try it if you did it first.
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On Monday night, a nurse who doesn't normally put the needles in me and therefore, who doesn't know my fistula put the needles in me. The first one was fine but she had to push quite hard to get the needle in. The next needle was going in higher up in my fistula but the skin is softer there. The nurse didn't know my fistula was softer there and to be truthful, I didn't think to mention it either. Anyway, she pushed the needle in as hard as she did for the first one, causing me some pain and discomfort.
On Wednesday (Epoman is not going to belive this!!!) I put both needles in my fistula myself! And I have to say I am feeling pretty pleased with myself. I also have to say that from now on, I am always going to stick myself! :thumbup;
I did not feel any pain whatsoever and could feel exactly where I was going with the needle. The only thing I did wrong was I was too slow with the first needle and caused a spurt of blood to go all over my T-shirt but I was expecting that as I had been prepared by one of the better nurses in my unit. I don't take any anaesthetic either.
Something else is strange but in a good way. Normally my BP goes up from about 150/80 to 170(+)/90. After I self - cannulated my BP was steady at 150/80. I figured it was because I wasn't nervous about someone else sticking those needles in me.
Like everyone else who has posted I thought I would NEVER be able to self cannulate and had visions of me passing out or hyper- ventilating or something but it was the exact opposite, I was calm and collected and felt better than ever coz I didn't cause any pain to myself.
All this is part of my instruction so I can eventually put myself on a machine. I have been on HD for 6 months now and am learning (slowly) as much as possible.
Now I have done it once, I will NEVER go back to having someone else stick me. NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!
And, I won't have any of those trainnees "having a go at putting Matt on." coz "I do it myself thanks, find someone else to practice on cos it sure ain't gonna be me!!!"
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Congrats Matt!
The NXstage rep was at our unit today, getting things started for doing home hemo for the first time at our center. He said they expect everyone to learn to self-cannulate if they want in the program when it starts in April. Guess I've got a deadline, now!
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Good one Matt hope i can do it when the time comes ..
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Rock on Matt. :beer1;
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Passed out - :P Reading about it. I'm proud of you Matt.
I think if they said "you have to put the needles in yourself or you can't go on dialysis" I would die with the needle in my hand. :P
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Wow, Matt.That is great.
You are brave and courageous.
I cannot even let my mind go there.
I'm glad it went well for you as far as pain, etc.
Especially the first attempt.
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Great!!!
:beer1;
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I am on PD but have been following this thread knowing one day I may/will have to move to HD. I have mastered giving myself Arenesp in my stomach... took a while but I got there. The fear of the needles is all in my head. I watched my dad self-cannulate for years as a child and I think that made me worse. :P Anyway, I have to move on and not be such a baby. So I have watched the video of Bill and have read all the posts about the button hole method. I am like a rabbit stuck in the head lights :o and Reruns pasted out next to me. I understand why its best to do it your self... but how did you get there mentally?
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Keep watching the video. I must have watched it a couple dozen times before I started dialysis, until I could stand to look all the way thru without getting queasy. Now that I'm on hemo, I had to force myself, bit by bit to watch what I could of the nurses working on me. At the beginning, I couldn't stand to see them do it all. I got lightheaded just pulling the needles. Now I'm over that, and I can watch them stick me most of the time, at least until they screw up and start fishing around. I'm getting better even when they are doing that. (Some of the nurses actually like it better when you don't watch them - it makes them nervous!) To get over a phobia, you have to keep exposing yourself to to it in incrementally larger doses until you are desensitized to the problem.
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Finally got 2 blunts in my arm last dialysis (Wed) so I know I am one step closer to cannulating myself. I am scared to death to do it but I know we can all do what we have to do. I used to be afraid to give myself my Aranesp and I learned to do it. Sure cannulating myself means bigger needles, but I learned with the Aranesp needles that it is always easier once you start to do it yourself. I just have to get over the initial fear.
I really think that Epoman should make a whole page on his site about the best way to learn to cannulate yourself and how to do it right (including speed, angle, everything). It would be a great thing! Maybe with those videos (http://www.ilovenxstage.com/videos.html) we have been waiting a long time for already ;) (*hint hint*)
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but how did you get there mentally?
I used anaesthetic when I first started HD about 8 months ago (sorry, I said it was 6 in my post) but when that wears off there is a horrible throbbing sensation around the sticking area and those injections sting like hell so I thought I would try one without the anaesthetic. Much to my surprise, I found that there was only about a second or so of discomfort without the anaesthetic and no throbbing sensation either. So that was it, no more anaesthetic.
That was stage one of mental prep.
Over time, I have become accustomed to one nurse sticking me each session. Over the last couple of months, she hasn't been doing it and I have had to get used to different nurses sticking me differently which got me out of my comfort zone with my preferred nurse ( I think this was a deliberate ploy to get me to self - cannulate as the guy in charge kept going on about me self - cannulating). So, as you can imagine lots of people doing it differently kind of gets you worried about who is going to do it next especially when there are quite a few new trainnees in my unit and I have already had a blown fistula which was painful!
That was stage two of mental prep.
On Wednesday, I wasn't even thinking about self - cannulation but knew I would do it soon but not that night. I was meant to do it last Friday but didn't feel brave enough at the last minute. So on Wednesday the nurse said to me "You're doing it yourself tonight." I said "No, I don't feel ready yet." She said "Why don't you just try one, I will be here for you so you don't need to worry." And that was it, I did one and the rest as you all know is history.
That was stage 3.
Remember guys, it wasn't planned to schedule it was more about how I felt and if I wanted to go ahead or not. I was gently pushed in the right direction but was never forced and had help around me at all times. I just want those of you out there who have a mental block of the needles and can't see past it that it is just you and it's nothing to worry about. We get ourselves in a state about them but I believe we worry because it is someone else that is inflicting pain on us. If you do it yourself you are in full control and can feel if you're hurting yourself and stick to your own pace as well. Some are too slow or too fast or too soft or too hard. Just imagine what it would be like if you did it and could control what you were doing. Remember, it's taken me 6 months ( I spent 2 months dialyzing with a line while my fistula matured) to get this far, those of you who have been waiting for years, do it soon or you never will.
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2 nurses were disagreeing about if my buttonholes were established yet or not (because I asked why I was having different nurses when it wasn't established yet when it says HERE at THIS link (http://www.homedialysis.org/v1/types/buttonhole.shtml) to have the same cannulator each time). The reason they were arguing about it is because I asked if and when my buttonholes would be considered established. Once they are established I will learn to self-cannulate. Right now they have decided they are not established because when they use blunts (especially after a weekend) the blunts just push the fistula around under my skin. The nurse said that if I cannulate myself I would have to have the nurse hold the fistula in place.
Gizmar told me that if I pull my arm along a table the skin will be more taunt. Any more advice on how to do this yourself when you have a fistula that rolls and "runs away" from the blunt?
I assume that once it is established that it will be a lot easier to cannulate??
When I pick off the scabs with a blunt (how my unit does it even though the only guy I watched in person take his scabs off his buttonholes he used tweezers) I poke at my holes to see how gutsy I would be to stick the blunts in myself. I think I could do it but it is scarey as I figure I would probably do it too slow and squirt blood all over the place.
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2 nurses were disagreeing about if my buttonholes were established yet or not (because I asked why I was having different nurses when it wasn't established yet when it says HERE at THIS link (http://www.homedialysis.org/v1/types/buttonhole.shtml) to have the same cannulator each time). The reason they were arguing about it is because I asked if and when my buttonholes would be considered established. Once they are established I will learn to self-cannulate. Right now they have decided they are not established because when they use blunts (especially after a weekend) the blunts just push the fistula around under my skin. The nurse said that if I cannulate myself I would have to have the nurse hold the fistula in place.
So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
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I have seen that most of the people that self cannulate don´t use a tourniquet, as they have been advise that it will damage their fistulas. I use a tourniquet that keeps the fistula in place. I don´t squeeze hard, but it works for me. That is the way they show me on how to self needle. When I started they told me that my fistula was a ¨giggler¨, which means that it moved a lot. With the tourniquet it stays put all the time. I hope this info helps...
I was trained with sharps, and I was the one who moved to blunts, with my nurse´s supervision.
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2 nurses were disagreeing about if my buttonholes were established yet or not (because I asked why I was having different nurses when it wasn't established yet when it says HERE at THIS link (http://www.homedialysis.org/v1/types/buttonhole.shtml) to have the same cannulator each time). The reason they were arguing about it is because I asked if and when my buttonholes would be considered established. Once they are established I will learn to self-cannulate. Right now they have decided they are not established because when they use blunts (especially after a weekend) the blunts just push the fistula around under my skin. The nurse said that if I cannulate myself I would have to have the nurse hold the fistula in place.
So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
I have seen that most of the people that self cannulate don´t use a tourniquet, as they have been advise that it will damage their fistulas. I use a tourniquet that keeps the fistula in place. I don´t squeeze hard, but it works for me. That is the way they show me on how to self needle. When I started they told me that my fistula was a ¨giggler¨, which means that it moved a lot. With the tourniquet it stays put all the time. I hope this info helps...
I was trained with sharps, and I was the one who moved to blunts, with my nurse´s supervision.
So are you saying since mine moves a lot that I SHOULD use the Tourniquet??
We are already talking about that subject here: http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=2584.0
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I don't quite understand why some medical professionals are so non-supportive of buttoholes. Took me opposition of 2 nephrologists, red tapes, and 5 months of wasted time with sharp needles.
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I don't quite understand why some medical professionals are so non-supportive of buttoholes. Took me opposition of 2 nephrologists, red tapes, and 5 months of wasted time with sharp needles.
Ya I know. I had to fight for months of them sticking me in the same spot for my arterial (lack of spots due to how my fistula is) anyway!! :( Finally 4 months later they finally started! Then I still have to argue with them as they said I would have the same nurse all the time .. and then I get different nurses and when I got this one, I asked about that and she said, "oh you are doing buttonhole?" ::)
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So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
If that is the case the buttonholes are established and it does not matter what nurse "sticks" it.
Your fistula is fairly new and you should be moving to blunts because you wait too long and the only way you will be able to use those buttonholes is with sharps.
As Epoman has suggested to you many times it is time you stuck yourself, especially since you have buttonholes.
Hate to be "blunt" Angie but sink or swim, sink or swim.----------------Yes I know that was a very very bad pun....... ;)
You CAN do it ! :thumbup;
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So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
If that is the case the buttonholes are established and it does not matter what nurse "sticks" it.
Your fistula is fairly new and you should be moving to blunts because you wait too long and the only way you will be able to use those buttonholes is with sharps.
As Epoman has suggested to you many times it is time you stuck yourself, especially since you have buttonholes.
Hate to be "blunt" Angie but sink or swim, sink or swim.----------------Yes I know that was a very very bad pun....... ;)
You CAN do it ! :thumbup;
Really? They are established? Then why does the main buttonhole nurse of my unit who has done this for over 20 years insist that they are not yet established until a certain amount of days straight in a row have been done with blunts successfully?
Oh boy now I am so scared thinking of how close the day is here and yet at the same time all excited! oh the mixed emotions and butterflies!
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Really? They are established? Then why does the main buttonhole nurse of my unit who has done this for over 20 years insist that they are not yet established until a certain amount of days straight in a row have been done with blunts successfully?
Oh boy now I am so scared thinking of how close the day is here and yet at the same time all excited! oh the mixed emotions and butterflies!
The buttonhole itself is merely the tunnel to the fistula vein itself. Much the same as the tunnel that is formed when one has their ears pierced for earrings or any other body part pierced.
If the blunt slides into the tunnel, as I previously just confirmed with you, then that tunnel is established. If it was not yet established, the blunt would not slide in because blunts "slide" in, they do not "cut" their way in as sharps do.
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Really? They are established? Then why does the main buttonhole nurse of my unit who has done this for over 20 years insist that they are not yet established until a certain amount of days straight in a row have been done with blunts successfully?
Oh boy now I am so scared thinking of how close the day is here and yet at the same time all excited! oh the mixed emotions and butterflies!
The buttonhole itself is merely the tunnel to the fistula vein itself. Much the same as the tunnel that is formed when one has their ears pierced for earrings or any other body part pierced.
If the blunt slides into the tunnel, as I previously just confirmed with you, then that tunnel is established. If it was not yet established, the blunt would not slide in because blunts "slide" in, they do not "cut" their way in as sharps do.
Awww man! That means mine is not yet established :( Becuase it does NOT slide in..
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So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I DO use a tourniquet, takes me about 20 seconds to cannulate both needles and I undo the tourniquet. They do that at my clinic also. It makes the giggler stay in place and the blunt just slide in, no problem. I do not squeeze the tourniquet hard, though. AS soon as the second needle goes in, the tourniquet is released....now, remember that I was trained with sharps and I moved to blunts when I felt they were sliding as butter!
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So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I gues you have never had that happen?? If you did you would know what I mean.
I DO use a tourniquet, takes me about 20 seconds to cannulate both needles and I undo the tourniquet. They do that at my clinic also. It makes the giggler stay in place and the blunt just slide in, no problem. I do not squeeze the tourniquet hard, though. AS soon as the second needle goes in, the tourniquet is released....now, remember that I was trained with sharps and I moved to blunts when I felt they were sliding as butter!
Yeah I used a tourniquet today as well after what you said and it worked better!
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So are you saying the blunts go into the skin but once they hit the fistula vein itself the blunt pushes it away?
Yeah that is exactly what I am saying !
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I gues you have never had that happen?? If you did you would know what I mean.
No I do not know what you mean as it seems you have said two different things. First it say the blunts slide in then you say they do not.
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No I do not know what you mean as it seems you have said two different things. First it say the blunts slide in then you say they do not.
I have never said they slide in as they never have. Not like butter anyway. I said they go in the skin no problem in the 2 holes but then when it comes to the actual fistula the blunts push the fistula around under my skin.
But if I get a nurse who actually listens to me it does go in .. at least it went in easier last time. So now I have some hope. As soon as it does go in like butter and anyone can cannulate me including myself (a noob) then I will stick myself ;)
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No I do not know what you mean as it seems you have said two different things. First it say the blunts slide in then you say they do not.
I have never said they slide in as they never have. Not like butter anyway. I said they go in the skin no problem in the 2 holes but then when it comes to the actual fistula the blunts push the fistula around under my skin.
But if I get a nurse who actually listens to me it does go in .. at least it went in easier last time. So now I have some hope. As soon as it does go in like butter and anyone can cannulate me including myself (a noob) then I will stick myself ;)
If the blunts slides into the skin down to the vein, the buttonhole tunnel is established.
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No I do not know what you mean as it seems you have said two different things. First it say the blunts slide in then you say they do not.
I have never said they slide in as they never have. Not like butter anyway. I said they go in the skin no problem in the 2 holes but then when it comes to the actual fistula the blunts push the fistula around under my skin.
But if I get a nurse who actually listens to me it does go in .. at least it went in easier last time. So now I have some hope. As soon as it does go in like butter and anyone can cannulate me including myself (a noob) then I will stick myself ;)
If the blunts slides into the skin down to the vein, the buttonhole tunnel is established.
Yes but what if it does NOT go into the vein? Just pushes it all over so badly that the nurses call to each other for help? Then what would you call that?
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No I do not know what you mean as it seems you have said two different things. First it say the blunts slide in then you say they do not.
I have never said they slide in as they never have. Not like butter anyway. I said they go in the skin no problem in the 2 holes but then when it comes to the actual fistula the blunts push the fistula around under my skin.
But if I get a nurse who actually listens to me it does go in .. at least it went in easier last time. So now I have some hope. As soon as it does go in like butter and anyone can cannulate me including myself (a noob) then I will stick myself ;)
If the blunts slides into the skin down to the vein, the buttonhole tunnel is established.
Yes but what if it does NOT go into the vein? Just pushes it all over so badly that the nurses call to each other for help? Then what would you call that?
A buttonhole is merely being cannulated in the exact spot at the same angle. We all know what the benefit of that is I am assuming.
Buttonholes were first established using sharps. However we do know the possible drawbacks from using sharps on buttonholes as sharps can cut tissue and therefor go off the established buttonhole track.
For one to to use blunts, a buttonhole tunnel must be formed through the skin and tissue, commonly called a buttonhole. The tunnel is formed with sharps cutting the same path through the tissue forming a scar tunnel down to the vein. One that scar tunnel is formed the buttonhole is formed and ready for use of blunts.
You still have to puncture the vein each time no matter what needle is used. Sharps create more scar tissue on veins than blunts do. The more scar tissue on the vein the harder it will be for a blunt to pass through it.
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You still have to puncture the vein each time no matter what needle is used. Sharps create more scar tissue on veins than blunts do. The more scar tissue on the vein the harder it will be for a blunt to pass through it.
Ah so that is what I am wondering! Are my buttonholes established but I just have a lot of scar tissue from the 2 months they were using sharps on my buttonholes? Or what? But if that is the case then why do they have to FISH AROUND for the holes on my actual fistula? It seems that the buttonhole tunnels are not quite right. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe I should draw a picture lol :-[
Thanks for Clarifying by the way. This is what I have been wondering all along! :thx;
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I often have trouble with the blunts hitting the wall of the vein and not going in. Its just a matter of keeping at it, pulling in and out until you get the right spot. Sometimes it takes a bit of force.
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I use sharps, but it scares me how much force even i have to use to push y venous in, alot of scar tissue around that area.
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I often have trouble with the blunts hitting the wall of the vein and not going in. Its just a matter of keeping at it, pulling in and out until you get the right spot. Sometimes it takes a bit of force.
I fine they don't want to pull it out a little to try again
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What happens is that the buttomhole is established but your vein might "wiggle"...then it moves when you are canulating. That is why I use the tourniquet.
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What happens is that the buttomhole is established but your vein might "wiggle"...then it moves when you are canulating. That is why I use the tourniquet.
I use one now and today was the 4th perfect blunts in buttonholes ;)
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I often have trouble with the blunts hitting the wall of the vein and not going in. Its just a matter of keeping at it, pulling in and out until you get the right spot. Sometimes it takes a bit of force.
I fine they don't want to pull it out a little to try again
Well then they must of got their training from a weetbix packet!! In order to find the spot in the vein you sometimes have to pull it out a little, obviously there wont be any blood as you arent in the vein yet. It happens to me whether Im using a torniquet or not. Its either do that or not get it in.
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I often have trouble with the blunts hitting the wall of the vein and not going in. Its just a matter of keeping at it, pulling in and out until you get the right spot. Sometimes it takes a bit of force.
I fine they don't want to pull it out a little to try again
Well then they must of got their training from a weetbix packet!! In order to find the spot in the vein you sometimes have to pull it out a little, obviously there wont be any blood as you arent in the vein yet. It happens to me whether Im using a torniquet or not. Its either do that or not get it in.
Ya I had a different nurse on Firday but she did a great job! She did as you said they should! She knew there wouldn't be blood and pulled it back out and tried again! She actually got it cannulated better and faster than any nurse so far before her! :clap;
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Not sure if this has been posted before - good video by Bill Peckham self-cannulating http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=153372659747625126
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Just watched the video. It was very interesting. Again, thanks Karol for posting this link.
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I have been sticking myself for over eight years and started doing buttonholes about six months ago. I would be afraid if I had to let someone else stick me.
I found the attached on the web, either here or at HomeDialysisCentral I believe.