I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: pagandialysis on October 16, 2011, 09:59:16 PM
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The wife just left. I have no idea where she went and I have no minutes on my phone to call her. I just feel so horrible. This is a letter I wrote her but haven't actually emailed her or given her:
Dear WIFE'S NAME,
I just don’t know what to say anymore. Maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s time that we went our separate ways. I tried to do things that would make you happy and make you feel like there was less stress on you. Maybe I just didn’t do a good enough job, though. When you told me that you were leaving I actually felt relieved. The only thing I thought about was “Finally, no one will yell at me, berate, or belittle me for every little thing. I won’t have to feel bad about being ill.” For the last few months no matter what I do it seems to be the wrong thing. I say the wrong thing, I do the wrong thing. No matter what I seem to do or say I make you angry. I am almost afraid to be near you or speak to you at all. It makes me so horribly sad to be near you some days. I feel like you’re angry that I have this illness and since I am the only one around you take it out on me. Do you have any idea what it feels like to know someone is yelling at you just because you’re ill? You make me feel like a horrible person. You make me feel like I should be ashamed to be alive. When you left I didn’t feel sad at all, even though I am extremely sad as I write this. I just don’t know what to do or even what to say anymore. This doesn’t even come close to all of the things I think or feel but it’s all I can get out on paper.
I just don’t know what to do anymore.
Love,
MY NAME
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I am sorry you are going through this. My ex was similar. I divorced before I got ill so she did not yell at me for being ill while we were married. She has asked me when I am going to F-ing die since we were divorced. Actually yelled it at me with my children in earshot. It is hard but in the long run I know that I am much better off without her. Remember the old joke: Why is divorce so expensive? Because it is worth it. Please know that I am not making lite of your situation. If you need someone to talk to during this rough time please do not hesitate to contact me.
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Phew, I don't know what to say to this, only I am sorry for the both of you. Sorry that your wife can not cope with your illness and sorry that she has made you feel, useless. It is hard being the carer and yes there are days when I feel like running away. She is probably angry with you and your illness because it has changed both your lives and she perhaps resents this. Why did you not give her the letter, let her know how you feel. Are you being fair with her and your self. If you love her let her know, find ways of doing things differently. and working together. Hoping things work out for you.
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I'm so sorry you're going through this on top of the illness. It is a very difficult thing to negotiate as a couple despite the fact that some people feel it brings them closer. I dont think it does, it most usually creates distance and that leads to loneliness, anger and the whole big mess. Whether you divorce or not though, I think it is important to talk, really talk about the feelings (very different on each side) and try to understand the position of the other. I hope you might get a chance to do this but if that is impossible then I hope you can find some peace apart. :grouphug;
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:grouphug;
My condolences. I agree with Monrein, though. It is so important to talk. It will be emotional, but you owe it to each other to be honest in your communication. Try not to blame, but share what you are feeling inside.
Aleta
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So sorry, pagan. Please reach out to the people on IHD who have experience in this.
I had a very volatile relationship with my husband but that has changed dramatically since my transplant. We were at each other's throats for years, and he moved out for a short while, and we slept in separate bedrooms many nights.
I know nothing about your dynamic with your wife, but for us, I felt like he was ignoring me. I would have rather he shouted at me (I think, anyhow) because at least it would have been some acknowledgment that I was there, that I was unhappy, that he had a role in that unhappiness and there were things he could do to address it that he was consciously choosing not to do. Things would fester with us for years.
He is much better with these issues now. If there is no communication, there is no realtionship. It takes so much work to get over the resentment that builds on both sides, the pair of you need to be willing if the marriage is going to be saved. What do you want to happen? Do you want to make it work, or do you think you'd be better off going your separate ways? What attracted you to each other in the first place? I think it helps to discuss this since often it gives a clear picture of what has changed, whether it can be changed back, and it never hurts to remind yourselves why you love or loved one another.
It sounds like she resents having serious illness take over so early in her life - this was obviously not what she envisioned in a marriage. Must be nice to be able to come to that realisation and then 'solve' the problem by walking out the door! If she is that type of person to abandon you because she does not want to have to deal with ESRD, get out now. If she is just so angry at the illness and taking her frustration out on you because she never learnt any healthy coping skills, then perhaps there is hope. Please do not isolate yourself. Find someone to talk to, or talk to us. We'll jump into the void with you. :grouphug;
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Quick Update: The wife came back that night and we have been working through some things.
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:thumbup; put lots of heart and thought into it ... It's tough on both of you. I hope your feeling a bit of peace about now :flower;
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pagandialysis, I really hope you get it back together. Tell her how you feel, ask her about her worries as well. Good luck.
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This illness is hard on you both. I'm sure she has her fears and her worries, too. Life with renal disease is so very difficult; try to be good to each other if at all possible.
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:grouphug;
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:grouphug; :grouphug;
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:grouphug;
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Glad she came back. You guys talk heart to heart! It is hard on you, but this is hard on her too! You love each other, so the love will prevail!
Good luck to you both,
lmunchkin
:kickstart;
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I'm going to go a different way here and say quit feeling sorry for your self and be a man for gods sake. You are the man and as such the head of your household, you need to quit crying and take control of your marriage. It is not easy all the time, but you can make it through any rough spot with the lord and determination. Divorce is very rarely any more than being lazy. Man up may not be the touchy feely answer, but it is the right one.
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I'm going to go a different way here and say quit feeling sorry for your self and be a man for gods sake. You are the man and as such the head of your household, you need to quit crying and take control of your marriage. It is not easy all the time, but you can make it through any rough spot with the lord and determination. Divorce is very rarely any more than being lazy. Man up may not be the touchy feely answer, but it is the right one.
What does "take control of your marriage" actually mean, practically speaking? And what does one do when one "mans up"? Can you be more specific, for pagan's sake?
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Sutphender, that's a liitle harsh.
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its easy, you sit down with your wife, your soul mate, your life partner, whatever and you work it out....no excuses. Thats how you take control, be the man and work through the problems instead of bitching about it on a medical forum to complete stangers. I don't want to start a religious debate but the lord was very clear about the man keeping his house in order. It is harsh, but come on...I can't be the only one tired of reading all the bleeding heart, feel sorry for me bs that comes through here.
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superbummer is what you call yourself I am sorry but your comment and man up was uncalled for this Illness is hard on everyone the one with it and family yes you have to work through it, but sometimes that doesnt work there are fears and frankly some people really cant deal with others being sick it doesnt mean they dont care it means they just cant handle it and need to do whats right for them at the time, my ex doesnt understand and I respect his feelings but I cant make it better I can just listen respect those who cant deal with my illness and make the best out of my life. we cannot control what other people do, feel or think about our illness it is what it is, and sometimes you just have to let them deak with it in thier own way. Just saying!!
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its easy, you sit down with your wife, your soul mate, your life partner, whatever and you work it out....no excuses. Thats how you take control, be the man and work through the problems instead of bitching about it on a medical forum to complete stangers. I don't want to start a religious debate but the lord was very clear about the man keeping his house in order. It is harsh, but come on...I can't be the only one tired of reading all the bleeding heart, feel sorry for me bs that comes through here.
I would hope that the Lord understands that it is difficult to control your spouse and to keep your house in order when dialysis is looming so large. Maybe the Lord will intervene in some way. I would think that success largely depends upon whether or not your wife wants to work it out in the first place.
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I'm glad you are working on things, pagan.
its easy, you sit down with your wife, your soul mate, your life partner, whatever and you work it out....no excuses. Thats how you take control, be the man and work through the problems instead of bitching about it on a medical forum to complete stangers. I don't want to start a religious debate but the lord was very clear about the man keeping his house in order. It is harsh, but come on...I can't be the only one tired of reading all the bleeding heart, feel sorry for me bs that comes through here.
sutphendriver, that's an overly harsh response, and not really of any help to pagan or any other person going through marital problems caused by illness. Chronic illness adds an incredible amount of stress to a relationship. How, exactly, does pagan tell his non-functioning kidneys to "man up"? And insisting that the man is supposed to be in charge don't sit well with most women these days, Christian or not.
I can't be the only one tired of reading all the bleeding heart, feel sorry for me bs that comes through here.
Actually, no, the vast majority of us don't have a problem with this. One of the major functions of a support group is to have a safe place to spew the "bleeding heart bs" so that we can cope better in our relationships. We are here to help each other. Please keep that in mind.
jbeany, Moderator
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I do not need a lecture on how this disease effects your life. Put your selves in his wifes shoes. He posts a breakup email on the net for thousands to read before he emails it to her. How much of a man deals with marital problems via email. He need to grow some stones and sit down face to face and deal with it. To often support groups turn into pity me fests. I believe my response was of way more help than all the pity and cute emoticons posted in response to his "dear Jane" email. I said be a man and deal with the problem, whats wrong with that? I sound like he did just that, delt with it without email. God commands husbands to place their wives on a pedistal and put their every need ahead of his own, thier is no disclaimer for dialysis.
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My, my, my, but aren't you a special snowflake? Must be nice to have all the answers. You obviously have no need to be here with us losers.
I'd suggest you take your paternalistic BS and haul ass to church. That is, if you can fit your 'stones' and your head through the door.
If you ever come to the realization we are all frail human beings with different capacities for coping, we'll still be here. I would imagine that day will come sooner rather than later, as "The Lord" has a way of bringing to their knees those who puff themselves up thinking they have it all together and think that makes them superior to their fellow creatures. Think on that.
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To often support groups turn into pity me fests.
I agree that this is the case with many support groups. Years ago, I attended a support group for parents with autistic kids, and it was awful. It was filled with traumatized parents who really did not have the strength to support anyone else. I attended twice and then bailed.
In saying that, though, I do find IHD to be different. Maybe it's the fact that it is online and is therefore always available, so people can come on and talk about all kinds of stuff, thus making it more of a community than a paltry support group.
As for the rest of your post, sutphendriver, to be fair, I can't disagree with you much. Maybe your delivery was a bit harsh, but the message isn't faulty, really. I'm not sure your "man up" mindset is going to be greeted with applause from most women on IHD, so maybe what would be more effective is to say something along the lines of, "Don't waste your time sorting this out online with people who don't know you, rather, go to the heart of the problem." Would that be fair to say?
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its easy, you sit down with your wife, your soul mate, your life partner, whatever and you work it out....no excuses. Thats how you take control, be the man and work through the problems instead of bitching about it on a medical forum to complete stangers. I don't want to start a religious debate but the lord was very clear about the man keeping his house in order. It is harsh, but come on...I can't be the only one tired of reading all the bleeding heart, feel sorry for me bs that comes through here.
Is this some sort of test? To see how long the feminist can read this crap without taking a stand?
Good thinking on quoting the Bible, sutphendriver, as I'm sure someone who goes by pagandialysis totally cares what Jesus would do.
My, my, my, but aren't you a special snowflake? Must be nice to have all the answers. You obviously have no need to be here with us losers.
I'd suggest you take your paternalistic BS and haul ass to church. That is, if you can fit your 'stones' and your head through the door.
Agreed! Why not man up and go it alone if you hate support groups so much?
pagan, I've posted some very personal issues on line. It helps me that there are strangers responding (although many of those strangers have now become friends). Strangers will not be caught up in the emotion of it and can give you their honest take. You've kept it anonymous, so I don't see that you've violated anyone's privacy. If it helped you, who cares what dissenters think?
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LOL @ "special snowflake." I'm gonna have to start using that. :P
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Feminist, athiest and pagans OH MY! We are not frail, God made us strong and gave us free will to deal with lifes problems. I do not have all the answers but I do believe that personal responsibility and a "man up" or if it suits you better a "woman up" mentality goes a very long way to solving most problems. I do not go it alone, my wife has been by my side since 1989. I am no better than any man, woman, athiest, agnostic, muslim or whomever. We are all created in Gods image and are all equals. I am a special snowflake, I have no need for people who feel sorry for themselves, and I will be in church Sunday, stones and all. cariad, you should read all my post before you "take a stand" a man should always place his wifes needs above his own. How is that "crap"? You may not be a believer, but much of the bibles moral instruction is just good advice on life. Attack my beliefs all you want, its actually kinda fun. My origional advice was sound.
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I have no need for people who feel sorry for themselves
Jesus: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me."
Jesus: "Lord, Lord, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Sutphendriver: "Oh, Jesus Christ, man up already and do what you have to do."
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8) Just a friendly reminder to all to stay on topic, and no personal attacks. Have a nice weekend! :thx;
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We are not frail, God made us strong and gave us free will to deal with lifes problems. I do not have all the answers but I do believe that personal responsibility and a "man up" or if it suits you better a "woman up" mentality goes a very long way to solving most problems.
I really, really wish that this were true...that God made us strong and that we are not frail.
I spent some time volunteering as a support person for parents whose child had just been diagnosed with a special need. Some of these kids had the most horrible, horrible maladies that left me wondering why God would permit such suffering in innocent children. I saw good, faithful people break under the pressure. I know for a fact that it is most assuredly not true that God made us all strong. You may not be frail, but the same cannot be said for everyone else.
"Personal responsibility" cannot solve all problems all the time. I wish it could. Again, going back to these parents, they exercised "personal responsibility" in every way they could, but they still had to battle outside forces like unsupportive families or guilt-ridden spouses or education authorities who didn't want to spend the money on special education. "Personal responsibility" without "collective social responsibility" leaves one cast adrift, and I for one do not believe that this is worthy behavior in the sight of God.
Sutphendriver, may I ask you how you think you might have handled renal adversity differently without your wife being by your side? Too many chronically ill people have no one by their side, and this can be psychologically devastating. I have thrown some of the biggest and best pity parties on this side of the Atlantic, but when it counts, I "man up", take "personal responsibility" and get on with it. But I have had my dark moments that have been well documented here. I personally have found that for me, I sometimes have to throw my pity party before I can get to the "man up" stage. Maybe that's what pagandialysis is doing here. We each have our way of hacking our way through this "trudgery", and I am not going to fault someone else's GPS system, if you will.
We are all created equal, but that does not mean we are all created the same.
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I do not have all the answers
Well, I'm going to have to agree with you there....
I do not go it alone, my wife has been by my side since 1989.
Great, but that's not what I meant. You sought a support group but now have said that you're sick of the "feel sorry for me bs that comes through here".
You're free to leave, and yet, here you are.
cariad, you should read all my post before you "take a stand"
Uh, let's not flatter ourselves into thinking that I would ever bother reading all of your posts. Although, you've clearly read through some of mine since I never mentioned being an atheist in this discussion.
a man should always place his wifes needs above his own. How is that "crap"?
Where to begin. If it works for you, carry on! I could not care less what goes on in your marriage. Telling pagandialysis that he essentially has no right to expect his wife to meet him half way is outright bollocks. Bringing the Bible into a discussion with a person who has announced via his screen name that he is not a follower of that particular religion is a waste of everyone's time and shows a lack of respect for other beliefs. You know next to nothing about these people or their relationship and are really in a poor position to tell him how to live his life.
I do not feel sorry for pagan, nor did I ever get the impression that that was what he was looking for. I felt sympathy which is completely different.
You may not be a believer, but much of the bibles moral instruction is just good advice on life.
Much of it may be. Your advice, however, does not fit in that category.
Attack my beliefs all you want, its actually kinda fun. My origional advice was sound.
I never attacked your beliefs but I'm thrilled for you that deluding yourself into believing I did qualifies as fun.
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ms dancer, the passages you have chosen from the bible tell me you have no idea the meaning behind them, but this is neither the time or place for bible study. I did not come to this forum for support, I came to it by a google search on the topic of phosphorous. Many of you seem very angry, that is a sad way to live life. I would suggest seeking out your local church for guidance. I realize that sounds condesending, but I assure you it is not. I do believe Christ is the way to peace if you choose to seek it. I don't take anything on the internet seriously, it is very easy to strike out at an unknown person. My appologies for offending any of you with my posts. I generally do not post here because I usually get this same reaction to my advice. I know I am a 38 year old dialysis patient, I am a professional firefighter, a christian, and above all a husband. I have had a transplant and every complication associated with dialysis. My wife and I have handled every emotional, spititual and physical side effect of 15years of ESRD. I am more than qualified to give my opiniion and have probably been there done that. I still stand by my original advice to pagan, be a man and deal with it face to face.
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Glenn, I've been reading your past posts, and I understand more about how you cope with ESRD, and it is quite impressive. You certainly have been through the wars, and I am glad that you post here and are willing to share with us your points of view and your experience. I am grateful to everyone who takes the time to join IHD and posts about their coping mechanisms. I'm really glad that your wife has been by your side and has dragged you back into the land of the living when you've needed it. She must be very strong and wise and loving. I'm hoping that pagan's wife might learn to be the same.
Yes, you are indeed qualified to give your opinion, much more so than me, that's for sure! LOL!
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ms dancer, the passages you have chosen from the bible tell me you have no idea the meaning behind them
You are incorrect. It does, however, show your lack of imagination. I apologize for being so abstruse.
I did not come to this forum for support
That's great! Others, however, are here for support.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of this support group. Epoman created this site as a safe haven for people to come and dump their raw emotions, whether those emotions be the endpoint or a step in the process. If people no longer feel safe here, if they have to fear they're going to be mocked, ridiculed or attacked for pouring out what is in their hearts, then what's the point? We may as well just appoint you the official greeter, tell every new member to 'man up' when they introduce themselves, and then we can just shut down the site and be done with it.
Many of you seem very angry, that is a sad way to live life. I would suggest seeking out your local church for guidance. I realize that sounds condesending, but I assure you it is not. I do believe Christ is the way to peace if you choose to seek it.
If it sounds condescending, it probably is. It's a good rule of thumb. That's all the response with which I'll dignify both your presumption and your suggestion.
I generally do not post here because I usually get this same reaction to my advice.
So, let me ask you: what is the one common denominator in all those interactions? Hint: it's not the other 6,000+ members of this site. By your fruits you shall be known, and the fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I find none of those attributes in your post to pagandialysis. If you always get a bad reaction to your posts I would invite you to ask yourself why, and exactly what fruits you are putting forth.
I'm a great big fan of tough love, but you know what? There's a time and a place. Here's a little test: walk a couple doors down and try practicing 'tough love' on your neighbors kids and see how far it gets you. It's inappropriate in this forum. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." That's just plain old good manners, no religion required.
I am more than qualified to give my opinion and have probably been there done that.
You are an authority on your own life. That does not make you an authority on anyone else's, nor does it give you the right to tell another man how to conduct his marriage.
I still stand by my original advice to pagan
Ah, a humble spirit and a willingness to be corrected. Oh, wait.
Does 'The Lord' know you've one-upped him in the omniscience department? I hope he doesn't have a problem with that.
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thank you mooosemom, and ms dancer i do appologize for upsetting you.
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My wife only criticizes me for two things: (1) everything I say, and (2) everything I do. :rofl;
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I don't know if pagandialysis is reading all of this but I will give my advice and in a way I will agree with sutphendriver. I've been through all the situations and I have been told by doctors that I could die three times. My number one concern was my wife. How she was feeling , would she be OK without me and how can she have things to do instead of hanging around me in the hospital. Put her first and the return is fantastic. We have been through it all and we are still the best of friends. Think how you would feel if it was her. Go together and get some marital advice. Think about her feelings first.